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  1. #2266
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev9 View Post
    I guess so, I mean your director has lost his daughter,the least you could do is push the release date and release the movie he made, because it is just wrong to make someone change their own film after all they've invested on the back of such a tragedy.They brought Whedon in , cut the movie into half(with the runtime) ,had him re-shoot 90% of the footage he decided to keep,saw after all that it was a turd and went ahead 'Yeah smile and wave boys just smile and wave' . I'm lost for words , but yeah maybe this whole mess is why we are actually getting the real thing ,God works in mysterious ways.
    It's wrong to make him change his film? Studio notes happen in almost almost every movie. Especially if your director turns in a over 4hour film that doubles down on the stuff that got the previous film ripped apart. Doesn't matter what tragedy he's facing they aren't gonna say forget business. The issue is they made dumb choice. Should have either had Wheedon make his own movie. Do whatever you can to cut cost but don't try to make another direct Frankenstein a film. Well we cut 90% of the footage out films some new scenes and added color back to the rest. I don't even get why Wheedon would take that job. A director looking for a big break, sure take it. Any established director should have looked at that and said no thank you. Partly cause it's a no win and partly out of respect for Zach.

  2. #2267
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midvillian1322 View Post
    It's wrong to make him change his film? Studio notes happen in almost almost every movie. Especially if your director turns in a over 4hour film that doubles down on the stuff that got the previous film ripped apart. Doesn't matter what tragedy he's facing they aren't gonna say forget business. The issue is they made dumb choice. Should have either had Wheedon make his own movie. Do whatever you can to cut cost but don't try to make another direct Frankenstein a film. Well we cut 90% of the footage out films some new scenes and added color back to the rest. I don't even get why Wheedon would take that job. A director looking for a big break, sure take it. Any established director should have looked at that and said no thank you. Partly cause it's a no win and partly out of respect for Zach.
    I'm looking at it not from a purely business perspective but the frame of mind he must have been in,to put it more bluntly.

    Zack: I'm almost done with the movie, all your tweaks as per Geoff and Berg have been implemented.

    Next day
    Zack: I just lost my daughter

    WB Execs : The entire movie needs to be redone, can we count on you to do that? No ? Ok we'll hire Joss.. oh no hard feelings ,nice working with u

    Not saying that's how it went down ,but must be pretty close.
    Last edited by Rev9; 02-25-2021 at 02:23 AM.

  3. #2268
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev9 View Post
    I'm looking at it not from a purely business perspective but the frame of mind he must have been in,to put it more bluntly.

    Zack: I'm almost done with the movie, all your tweaks as per Geoff and Berg have been implemented.

    Next day
    Zack: I just lost my daughter

    WB Execs : The entire movie needs to be redone, can we count on you to do that? No ? Ok we'll hire Joss.. oh no hard feelings ,nice working with u

    Not saying that's how it went down ,but must be pretty close.
    I mean that's not what he said in the Vanity Fair interview we're all talking about.

    He kept trying to work on the film for two months after his daughter committed suicide as a way of trying to keep from focusing on the pain before giving up. During this whole time the company was continuing to give him notes, which happens when you work on a huge tentpole movie for a large company.

    Again, he knew that the job required him to take notes from the management, he decided to keep doing that after his daughter committed suicide, and then he decided to quit. If WB had decided to push back the release date they wouldn't have stopped giving him notes or trying to change the film, it's not a harsh or unfair or punitive business decision to hire a director that better fits the style they're aiming for after he quit the project.

  4. #2269
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thezmage View Post
    I mean that's not what he said in the Vanity Fair interview we're all talking about.

    He kept trying to work on the film for two months after his daughter committed suicide as a way of trying to keep from focusing on the pain before giving up. During this whole time the company was continuing to give him notes, which happens when you work on a huge tentpole movie for a large company.

    Again, he knew that the job required him to take notes from the management, he decided to keep doing that after his daughter committed suicide, and then he decided to quit. If WB had decided to push back the release date they wouldn't have stopped giving him notes or trying to change the film, it's not a harsh or unfair or punitive business decision to hire a director that better fits the style they're aiming for after he quit the project.
    The truth is he admits he finished enough footage to do two films, not in that article though,it was a fan interview he had I think.He gave WB what they wanted ,by shooting ,incorporating the changes they wanted,and shooting a more hard boiled version he wanted as a director's cut.He gave them their version and they wanted a complete re-do, hence earlier on leaks that the cut they saw pre release like in maybe May 2017 they did not like. So yeah they wanted him to re-shoot and that is when he walked away, rather than go on with the tragedy affecting him personally after he had already effected changes from the initial script.I'm not complaining though coz ultimately he gets to show us the movie he made.I just think WB spent more money when they could have come to this point looking far better than they do now ,with less cost

  5. #2270
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev9 View Post
    The truth is he admits he finished enough footage to do two films, not in that article though,it was a fan interview he had I think.He gave WB what they wanted ,by shooting ,incorporating the changes they wanted,and shooting a more hard boiled version he wanted as a director's cut.He gave them their version and they wanted a complete re-do, hence earlier on leaks that the cut they saw pre release like in maybe May 2017 they did not like. So yeah they wanted him to re-shoot and that is when he walked away, rather than go on with the tragedy affecting him personally after he had already effected changes from the initial script.I'm not complaining though coz ultimately he gets to show us the movie he made.I just think WB spent more money when they could have come to this point looking far better than they do now ,with less cost
    This movie is very explicitly not the movie he wanted to make originally. We know that there was no Joker scene in his original film, for one.

  6. #2271
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thezmage View Post
    This movie is very explicitly not the movie he wanted to make originally. We know that there was no Joker scene in his original film, for one.
    Well yeah but I think the Joker is the newest addition, because he had more time to finish the cut ,add 'connective tissue' for the episodic format ,but other than that it is the true cut he wanted us to see, not cut down to 2 hours like Tushijara decreed. The cut he had was 217 minutes, now it will be 240 minutes .So you could say he added on 23 minutes of footage(whether all shot or some repurposed from his 5 hour assembly cut ,I don't know)
    Last edited by Rev9; 02-25-2021 at 11:35 AM.

  7. #2272
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    Warner was still under no moral or legal obligation to sabotage their own company for his family tragedy. If my mother dies I can take time off work but they'll still hire somebody to do the work to their standards while I do it. If I miss a deadline and the financial statements aren't as good as they could be that's not really a failure on anybody but the temp.

  8. #2273
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thezmage View Post
    Warner was still under no moral or legal obligation to sabotage their own company for his family tragedy. If my mother dies I can take time off work but they'll still hire somebody to do the work to their standards while I do it. If I miss a deadline and the financial statements aren't as good as they could be that's not really a failure on anybody but the temp.
    No one disputes that they are under no legal or moral obligation, but they are in a business of which marketing,perception and good PR are a huge subset so you can't say with a straight face this was good PR

  9. #2274
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thezmage View Post
    Warner was still under no moral or legal obligation to sabotage their own company for his family tragedy. If my mother dies I can take time off work but they'll still hire somebody to do the work to their standards while I do it. If I miss a deadline and the financial statements aren't as good as they could be that's not really a failure on anybody but the temp.
    So why not go with one of the assistant directors? The ones who were there and should have known what Snyder wanted done or close to it?

    It's not like we haven't seen it before. Heck we have even seen the head of a company take over-see Def Before Temptation-Erick Dickerson left that film to do the movie Juice and the head of Troma finished it.

  10. #2275
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    So why not go with one of the assistant directors? The ones who were there and should have known what Snyder wanted done or close to it?
    Because what the studio wanted is not what Snyder wanted.

  11. #2276
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev9 View Post
    No one disputes that they are under no legal or moral obligation, but they are in a business of which marketing,perception and good PR are a huge subset so you can't say with a straight face this was good PR
    I'm at a loss at interpreting what you've been saying other than that it was a moral failing to not delay the film so that Snyder could come back

  12. #2277
    Astonishing Member HsssH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thezmage View Post
    Warner was still under no moral or legal obligation to sabotage their own company for his family tragedy.
    But they sabotaged it anyway so I'm not sure what is your point?

    I also find this Vanity Fair interview a bit weird, is he trying to take more responsibility on himself in order to make WB look better? Because, from what I remember, whole situation was presented very differently when Whedon replaced him.

  13. #2278
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    Quote Originally Posted by HsssH View Post
    But they sabotaged it anyway so I'm not sure what is your point?
    They made a bad movie, but there's no evidence that they set out to make a bad movie, which is what sabotaging it would mean. All evidence points towards them making what they think would be the best movie they could make with their resources and time.

    I also find this Vanity Fair interview a bit weird, is he trying to take more responsibility on himself in order to make WB look better? Because, from what I remember, whole situation was presented very differently when Whedon replaced him.
    I think he's trying to look gracious and accepting of his own faults in order to make himself look better. Note the difference between his comments here and his tweets in response to critics. I think the article as a whole is setting out to create a factual accounting of what happened in the making of the movie.

  14. #2279
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thezmage View Post
    I'm at a loss at interpreting what you've been saying other than that it was a moral failing to not delay the film so that Snyder could come back
    Ultimately, I think they seized on the death of his daughter to force him out.I remember I heard the daughter passed like in March(not sure exactly) but he persevered for 2 months filming,burrying himself in the work, which was mostly post production at that stage, as I think they finished filming in January.If he had not been hamstrung, with demands of re working the film ,after so much had already been re worked in script(he even admits that the script Terrio wrote at first was massively changed by Johns and that was before Whedon added re-writes post Zack's exit), he would have persevered coz I think it was helping him cope, but by making it almost untenable he decided it was not worth the struggle, I guess if the film release was pushed as soon as he was hit by the tragedy a lot of goodwill would be earned with fans, Zack would be able to have the time to finish what he started or at least what he had almost completed.There would not have been the baggage Joss brought with cast complaints/the horrendous Cavill CGI upper lip 'wax' ..So much would have turned out better than what actually did in 2017 .The buck stops with the studio.

    I guess it worked out for him in the end, looking back instead of getting a 2 hour film we would have got with that runtime mandate ,we are getting the full epic, with CGI rendering and visuals and score that were originally intended. The studio still release the same movie they tried not to, waste time,money and get bad rep for all that effort.
    Last edited by Rev9; 02-25-2021 at 04:17 PM.

  15. #2280
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev9 View Post
    Ultimately, I think they seized on the death of his daughter to force him out.I remember I heard the daughter passed like in March(not sure exactly) but he persevered for 2 months filming,burrying himself in the work, which was mostly post production at that stage, as I think they finished filming in January.If he had not been hamstrung, with demands of re working the film ,after so much had already been re worked in script(he even admits that the script Terrio wrote at first was massively changed by Johns and that was before Whedon added re-writes post Zack's exit), he would have persevered coz I think it was helping him cope, but by making it almost untenable he decided it was not worth the struggle, I guess if the film release was pushed as soon as he was hit by the tragedy a lot of goodwill would be earned with fans, Zack would be able to have the time to finish what he started or at least what he had almost completed.There would not have been the baggage Joss brought with cast complaints/the horrendous Cavill CGI upper lip 'wax' ..So much would have turned out better than what actually did in 2017 .The buck stops with the studio.

    I guess it worked out for him in the end, looking back instead of getting a 2 hour film we would have got with that runtime mandate ,we are getting the full epic, with CGI rendering and visuals and score that were originally intended. The studio still release the same movie they tried not to, waste time,money and get bad rep for all that effort.
    You can think that if you want, but from his own mouth that is not what happened

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