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  1. #256
    Extraordinary Member Jokerz79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    Hollywood is trying to copy Feige. You never mentioned any director trying to copy him to better the quality of the industry because nobody is.

    Fiege is not a director or an artier producer. He is a sales man for Disney products. Snyder is still respected in the industry, Bay you are bringing down is also respected to some extent.


    Aquaman was lukewarm in DC circles. Those in DC circles were not onboard with DC films becoming like MCU films and The Snyder Cut Release is a testament to that. The movement to release the cut worked.



    Urgh, trying to convince me that MCU is better than DC. The only story telling in marvel movies are from the X-Men films and The first Spiderman films.

    Avengers 1, 2, 3 and 4 all had bigger action sequences and spectacles than the Snyder films and for a longer period in the film. In praise of Snyder, he introduced some interesting topic stories with Man of Steel and Batman v Superman unlike Feige movies that are as brainless as the Michael Bay films. The Justice League Cut will be worth it for that alone.
    From Dawn of the Dead to Watchmen Snyder has always managed to dumb down the source materials he gets the story but not the themes and his films are pretty brainless because of it.

  2. #257
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    The more people get older, the more they like Man of Steel. Can you say the same for Fiege's films and Aquaman?
    Yes. (See Winter Solider and Guardians of the Galaxy if you want case studies on why).
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  3. #258
    Astonishing Member Triple J's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Those MCU films were made under Fiege's authority, and they have a stronger track record than Snyder did. Many MCU films made that kind of money, but none did when Snyder directed them. Aquaman was something more like the MCU wold produce than Snyder. Aquaman was made when Snyder was on the way out, he wasn't its director. Him being a producer means nothing, what did he actually do with the production? Of course.
    Dunno why you keep comparing Snyder to Fiege? Last time I checked, Fiege wasn't the one directing Marvel films. Again, you are coming up with an arbitrary standard (as pointed out earlier) of billion dollars. Sure, BvS made less money than WB expected, but doesn't mean it's a failure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    His subplots were a poorly written, confusing mess. Snyder's like Michael Bay, he excels at making things explode and action sequences not storytelling. Of course I'm aware of that, I watched the movie - what does that have to do with the scene where Superman kills a man by slamming him into two walls? Superman did that under his own volition. His aesthetic was all over those films, aside from Aquaman. Snyder wasn't completely powerless in the DCEU, he was the face of the franchise for a big period and wasn't an expendable cog like Ayer was. They didn't kick Snyder out of the editing room on any of his movies.

    Snyder was involved in writing Wonder Woman's plot.
    As someone else already pointed out, Clark himself said that he didn't kill anyone in the incident in Africa (explained in the scene with Lois).

    Sure, if you go by laws of physics, the general is dead. But when has laws of physics affected superheros?

    I do agree about Superman's death though. Could have been a lot more impactful. I think Snyder would be better suited to long form/tv series format since he seems to make long movies that aren't edited as well (I am a fan of his director cuts; not so much with theatrical versions; For BvS, it cut out a lot of important character scenes, especially for Clark). So, looking hopeful about what he does for HBO Max.
    Last edited by Triple J; 06-02-2020 at 11:29 PM.
    DC Extended Universe Thread (DCEU)

    That's how it starts. The fever. The rage. The feeling of powerlessness. That turns good men....Cruel - Alfred.

    This may be the only thing that I do that matters - Bruce.

    Stay down, if I wanted it, you would be dead already - Clark.

  4. #259
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    James Wan has credited Aquaman's success to Snyder and it's been stated the version we got in the Aquaman movie was closer to what Snyder wanted than what we got in Whedon's JL.

  5. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post

    Snyder was involved in writing Wonder Woman's plot.
    So are we calling Wonder Woman a failure by virtue of Snyder writing part of the plot?

  6. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    James Wan has credited Aquaman's success to Snyder and it's been stated the version we got in the Aquaman movie was closer to what Snyder wanted than what we got in Whedon's JL.
    I'd like to see that quote. Why wouldn't he do that? It's like a writer using a character created by another creator when they do a storyline with them, just because Snyder created that Aquaman didn't automatically shift all the acclaim the character got to himself. Wan did what Snyder couldn't with Aquaman.

    So are we calling Wonder Woman a failure by virtue of Snyder writing part of the plot?
    No, he just credit for writing the plot he doesn't get credit for directing the movie. Who do you credit with the success of Wonder Woman, Snyder or Jenkins?

  7. #262
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    James Wan has credited Aquaman's success to Snyder and it's been stated the version we got in the Aquaman movie was closer to what Snyder wanted than what we got in Whedon's JL.
    I don't see the difference between them its the same Aquaman. Surfer Bro who wants to be left alone but gets forced into shit. And this is coming from someone who loved Aquaman. JL Mamoa was the same as what we got in his movie just in a way funner and more colorful movie. All the things I like about Aquaman are what I didnt like about BvS. I like Snyder I think hes got an eye for action shots. But when he makes anything with a complicated plot I just feel he fumbles the ball. 300 was simple and looked great. He allowed Butler to give an amazing performance and the movie shined . I think Snyder might have been able to make a good Batman film. The things i don't like about MoS or his take on Superman could work for me in a Batman film. Also why I'm fine with JJ or another director making a superman movie continuing on with MoS cast. I like the cast and most the issues I had were the muted colors, and Tone. Those things can be adjusted without throwing out the world Snyder created. Also would love more Russel Crowe as Jor-El. His scenes had all the vibes id want from a superman movi. As far as a crossover movie goes were in a weird places because Snyder films progressively become more divisive. But WW,Shazam,Aquaman were huge hits. So your not rebooting but its impossible to keep going and coming back to a Justice league movie with the core members. I mean again they can but it's either gonna have to ignore older movies or make Dick or Tim or even Terry Batman. Batflek is done and probably wouldn't have stayed long anyway. Or they go the ignore route and see if Pattinson is interested

  8. #263
    Spectacular Member Valentis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    Superman dying did cause some ripple effects. positive or negative it doesn't matter but it was effective.

    The only disagreement that has come to matter is DC and Snyder fans disagreed with WB on the treatment of JL and they won. WB agreed to release the CUT, Right or Wrong this is a big victory.

    2021 cannot come sooner.
    A big victory until WB tries to release another Cut. Look, I am happy Snyder and DC fans are finally going to see the original movie, however WB wants to start taking things too far by releasing a Suicide Squad Cut.

  9. #264
    Mighty Member Blind Wedjat's Avatar
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    300 is Zack Snyder's only influential film in my opinion. It's often stated that Snyder's a great visual director but I've always thought he is a bit overrated in that regard. But 300 is a truly striking film and I don't think we had seen anything like it before it came out. It made his slow motion style iconic and I'd argue many sword-and-sandle productions tried to emulate it's aesthetic.

    But aside from all of that, the film isn't entirely special. The story is simple enough to be memorable but it's script isn't phenomenal. The performances in it are fine but not memorable or amongst the best of the year it was released. Is there anything else that's iconic about 300 other than its visual style and "THIS IS SPARTA"?

    This is how I see a lot of Snyder's films overall. Is there any notable or even small time director out there that's inspired by Dawn of the Dead? Sucker Punch? Legends of Ga'Hoole? Snyder is only notable in the industry because he's directed some of the biggest and most controversial blockbusters in the last seven years, and just because you're doing something controversial doesn't mean you're doing something right. The only examples of his other films I can think of as inspiration are Brightburn (Man of Steel) and the Titans TV show (Watchmen). But considering the quality of those that isn't exactly a great thing.

    It's been seven years since Man of Steel came out and I've yet to hear a good argument why it's anywhere between an underrated film to a masterpiece. I think a lot of the good criticisms of the film have been lost overtime because the most controversial thing about it is how it adapts its source material. Personally I have no emotional connection to Reeves' Superman or the comics. Man of Steel is in my opinion is true mixture of good things and bad things, and as a result is an inconsistent film with half baked ideas and themes. It always leaves me feeling empty after I watch it because I don't think it truly resolves what it introduces. The visuals are entertaining (to a point), some of the performances are good, but the story takes itself too seriously while at the same time is not as intelligent as it thinks it is.

    With that in mind I don't think Snyder has inspired more than the MCU. Guardians of the Galaxy introduced the idea of a band of misfits as well as a heavy presence of popular music which we've seen Deadpool, Doom Patrol, The Umbrella Academy, and Thor: Ragnarok all use, as well as Suicide Squad (why do you think James Gunn is directing the sequel). The tone of the modern blockbuster is arguably inspired by The Avengers (2012) with it's lighter tone famous one-liners and character banter. We've seen many films try to emulate this (almost to a fault). Captain America: The Winter Soldier (alongside the Arrow TV show) was one of the first films to popularise Southeast Asian martial arts styles seen in The Raid (2011) in the West before several movies have now been all over it. Funny enough, the war film aesthetic that Snyder used in Man of Steel was something the first Iron Man movie also used and it came out five years before. Even smaller examples like the character of Black Widow seem to be the reason why we have so many gun-toting, European femme fatale films like Lucy, Atomic Blonde, Red Sparrow, and Anna.

  10. #265
    Spectacular Member Castle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerz79 View Post
    From Dawn of the Dead to Watchmen Snyder has always managed to dumb down the source materials he gets the story but not the themes and his films are pretty brainless because of it.
    Fiege compared to Snyder has dumbed down the source material worse than Snyder ever did. The first DC film Snyder did was Man of Steel in 2013, the themes were there. Attributes of Superman to a Christ like figure. Fiege at the time was dumbing down anything good that could have come out of Iron man 3

    Snyder gave us a realistic superman with flaws. I would take Man of Steel over Iron Man 3 anyday. Iron Man 3 was brainless. We usually allude dumbed down to the level of action sequences and spectacles with tiny plots and Snyder does that less than Michael Bay and Fiege. He has less criticism than them.

    There is no action sequences or spectacles in any Snyder film that was as damaging as any of the Avengers films. Snyder also did address the issue. He said he never understood how man of steel was sharply criticised when Avengers were doing worse and he had a good point. Where is the evidence that Snyder is the perpetrator? Snyder looks better than Fiege and Bay, he does not drop stupid jokes every 5 minutes during action sequences , that is dumbed down.

    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    Yes. (See Winter Solider and Guardians of the Galaxy if you want case studies on why).
    GOTG and Winter Solider has the same amount of action sequences and spectacles as the Snyder films. I want the CUT for Suicide Squad. DC wanted Suicide Squad to be a darker less kid friendly version of GOTG. A cut can finally give them a chance.



    Quote Originally Posted by Blind Wedjat View Post
    With that in mind I don't think Snyder has inspired more than the MCU. Guardians of the Galaxy introduced the idea of a band of misfits as well as a heavy presence of popular music which we've seen Deadpool, Doom Patrol, The Umbrella Academy, and Thor: Ragnarok all use, as well as Suicide Squad (why do you think James Gunn is directing the sequel). The tone of the modern blockbuster is arguably inspired by The Avengers (2012) with it's lighter tone famous one-liners and character banter. We've seen many films try to emulate this (almost to a fault). Captain America: The Winter Soldier (alongside the Arrow TV show) was one of the first films to popularise Southeast Asian martial arts styles seen in The Raid (2011) in the West before several movies have now been all over it. Funny enough, the war film aesthetic that Snyder used in Man of Steel was something the first Iron Man movie also used and it came out five years before. Even smaller examples like the character of Black Widow seem to be the reason why we have so many gun-toting, European femme fatale films like Lucy, Atomic Blonde, Red Sparrow, and Anna.
    It narrates to how you want to look at influence in the industry. Nobody looks to MCU as a role model for movies. More people see MCU as big movie stars on big screen vacation. Snyder is flawed but I cannot see any reasoning that paints Fiege in a better light, you will see this more after the CUT is release. HBO knows they have something good here. And truly really most of HBO stuff is better than MCU.

  11. #266
    Mighty Member Blind Wedjat's Avatar
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    You: "Nobody looks to the MCU as a role model for movies."

    Also you: "DC wanted their own version of Guardians of the Galaxy."


  12. #267
    Spectacular Member Castle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blind Wedjat View Post
    You: "Nobody looks to the MCU as a role model for movies."

    Also you: "DC wanted their own version of Guardians of the Galaxy."

    DC wanted something different than GOTG, something more jaring. They were not copying GOTG, they were trying not to copy that.

    Ayer said his plans for Suicide Squad was a soulful drama that was beaten into comedy.

    https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/...215247396.html
    David Ayer on ‘Suicide Squad': ‘My Soulful Drama Was Beaten Into a Comedy’

    He was not trying to be influenced by GOTG neither was Deadpool.

  13. #268
    Mighty Member Blind Wedjat's Avatar
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    Did DC want it, or did Ayer want it? Because clearly both of them didn't want the same thing, according to Ayer. So if Warner Brothers wanted something like Guardians (which they clearly did and still do which is why they got the director of said film), that disproves your point about nobody wanting to do anything like the MCU anyway.

    Also, I'm not gonna take Ayer's word on wanting a soulful drama when he made Bright. And when he was doing that, he made it a point to differentiate that Netflix doesn't control his directors. So if he made that without studio interference, who's to say Suicide Squad was any better?

    If all your responses are just going to be "No" without any counterpoints I don't see why I need to further engage with someone who has their mind made up.

  14. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    DC wanted something different than GOTG, something more jaring. They were not copying GOTG, they were trying not to copy that.

    Ayer said his plans for Suicide Squad was a soulful drama that was beaten into comedy.

    https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/...215247396.html
    David Ayer on ‘Suicide Squad': ‘My Soulful Drama Was Beaten Into a Comedy’

    He was not trying to be influenced by GOTG neither was Deadpool.
    Oh please, if Guardians did not make a lot of money Warner would only make Batman movies and perhaps a Superman movie. They started looking at other Characters because the first Guardians was sucessfull.

    And my main Problem with Snyder is simply that he could make a Captain Carrot movie and it would get the Watchmen treatment.
    I mean one of the rumours about his version of JLA was that the hostages in the beginning are all killed in that.
    Seeing that he killed off Jimmy Olsen and the only ways to know that is watching the after credits or reading an interview about him bragging about it, i would not be surprised if that is true.
    Last edited by lowfyr; 06-03-2020 at 06:22 AM.

  15. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    I have to disagree with this. You can also say the snap killed everyone in the MCU and nobody cared because we knew they were coming back with time travel.

    People did care about Superman dying,Superman dying started a conversation of the direction of DC movies.
    And you would be wrong again. Nobody knew after Infinity War that Time Travel would play a role. Guessing but not knowing.

    And regarding Dawn of justice. The movie started a discussion about the direction of the movies. The death of Superman was just part of the problem.

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