Zack Snyder's JUSTICE LEAGUE on HBOmax in 2021!

[80sbaby]

Like I said, deflecting to Civil War is a weird defense for BvS. But yeah, it's kinda humorous to see lol

[Castle]

And now for more happy news

Snyder promises there would be no studio messing around,

https://geektyrant.com/news/zack-sny...io-compromises

The original Steppenwolf design will return

He is already deep in VFX work on the film

The upcoming release of Justice League will be 100% his vision with absolutely no compromises

We will likely get a new teaser before the upcoming DC FanDome on August 22

Junkie XL will return to score the film

Justice League will include more Knightmare sequences with Darkseid and Superman

Kevin Costner will likely return as Jonathon Kent for a brief cameo

I am looking forward to Costner making more cameos though I cannot wait again for the talk that he was a bad dad.

[Rev9]

Definitely, BvS was the movie of the year, the media destroyed it for that reason because they knew nothing else would compete well.

they tried to pull the same thing with Joker last year.

And its not just the plot that Snyder did well giving the time frame. Can we talk about the cinematography, visual effects, score (wonder woman's introduction) and sound mixing of the movie?

I am just happy HBO has the same high production quality.

I'm glad he's getting his vision through, he says this cut will not be 'compromised' as he puts it,meaning his full vision perhaps even with the 5 film arc in mind ,we could get Justice League 2 on HBO max by Zack so I'm excited!

[WebLurker]

tony is worse because civil war has a worse script to snyder's dawn of justice, you cant be pro civil war and anti dawn of justice.it hurts your credibility to me.

As someone with a writing background, I can say with some expertise that BvS had a terrible script. Look beyond the Martha nonsense that's become the film's legacy and to how many loose threads there are (the extended edition subplot of Lois tracking the bullet doesn't change a thing, becoming a waste of space, the Knightmare and future JL cameos only exist to set up future movies that will now not happen, the themes are all over the place, Lex's master plan makes no sense and depends on him knowing things he either shouldn't know or suddenly knowing things the movie never established he knew). Bear in mind that the only version I saw was the extended edition, which is supposedly the better one.

Whether Civil War was better or worse is irrelevant to BvS's flaws.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

Meh the script and concept are fine. The editing sucked. It’s the the main problem DCEU films have. They get mangled in post production

[Rev9]

As someone with a writing background, I can say with some expertise that BvS had a terrible script. Look beyond the Martha nonsense that's become the film's legacy and to how many loose threads there are (the extended edition subplot of Lois tracking the bullet doesn't change a thing, becoming a waste of space, the Knightmare and future JL cameos only exist to set up future movies that will now not happen, the themes are all over the place, Lex's master plan makes no sense and depends on him knowing things he either shouldn't know or suddenly knowing things the movie never established he knew). Bear in mind that the only version I saw was the extended edition, which is supposedly the better one.

Whether Civil War was better or worse is irrelevant to BvS's flaws.

As someone with a writing background, I can say with some expertise that BvS had a terrible script. Look beyond the Martha nonsense that's become the film's legacy and to how many loose threads there are (the extended edition subplot of Lois tracking the bullet doesn't change a thing, becoming a waste of space, the Knightmare and future JL cameos only exist to set up future movies that will now not happen, the themes are all over the place, Lex's master plan makes no sense and depends on him knowing things he either shouldn't know or suddenly knowing things the movie never established he knew). Bear in mind that the only version I saw was the extended edition, which is supposedly the better one.

Whether Civil War was better or worse is irrelevant to BvS's flaws.

I believe the bullet plot was to show how meticulous Lex's plan was:

1.He wanted to tarnish and make popular opinion go against Superman first .This he figured would prime government for his pitch to weaponise Kryptonite as a deterrent. Through employing a witness to give false testimony full well knowing CIA would not defend Superman and he would be a perfect scapegoat for a botched CIA operation in an international conflict.Luckily Sen.Finch saw through it
2He killed her and all oversight over the Kryptonian ship with the disabled witness as an unaware Trojan horse(who he also got out of jail for defacing the Superman monument).He probably was always eager for the ship's knowledge to enable him to find how he could kill Superman without the Kryptonite or maybe just because he wanted to know ..are Kryptonians really the most powerful beings in the universe?
The initial plan was also by the bombing to prime Batman to act , he basically gifted Batman the Kryptonite by inviting him and allowing him to steal files about Kryptonite moulding into a weapon(those files were planted as they had info on all metahumans but no Superman so that Batman would not see Superman as a mere man but an alien yet Lex knew not only Superman's but even Batman's secret identity)

3.Doomsday was his ace in the hole( if we don't assume he rang the bell for Darkseid from the ship) to kill Superman and prove his existential crisis that all power is ravenous, cruel and destructive.

In the movie the bullet plot ultimately serves to set Lois to uncover the plot and clear Superman's name in Africa and quell questions about Superman's inbaility to stop the Capitol bombing as Lex would go to jail for creating Doomsday anyway

the knightmare sequence in film strengthens Batman's resolve to destroy Superman ,but ultimately it gets more relevance with the new ZSJL being released

Lex's master plan is deeply personal,he was abused by his father in private and used for charity in public.So he mistrusts powerful figures he feels Superman is a phoney who because of his power and benevolence does not fit with Lex's axiom ,to him power can't be innocent, his world view means Superman is an aberration to him at least, Doomsday is his attempt to equate the scale if Superman is no phoney but ultimately good,then Lex creates the Devil to destroy the idea of good above all.He is basically a misotheist who has lost faith in any form of good that he projects on a being that is his stand in for a Christian(abrahamic)concept of deity

He knows what he knows because his reach is vast,his power is knowledge,he has military contracts, research and technology that puts him close to black projects and that means Kryptonian ship in the film.He has cameras at most likely his own banks or retail stores if not relayed to him by those that employ his surveillance equipment ,or maybe he among other ventures does data mininng for the Pentagon.Point is he even has deep sea search vessels again if not got from his contacts in Pentagon and CIA so his reach means his face recognition software on his platforms inevitably made him aware of who Bruce and Clark were.It is not hard to believe in this day and age with the troubles Facebook has post 2016

[SiegePerilous02]

Meh the script and concept are fine. The editing sucked. It’s the the main problem DCEU films have. They get mangled in post production

Eh, not sure the script is fine. The editing of the TC is the major problem for that cut, but like WebLuker said a lot of the problems still exist in the UC. It made a bad film slightly less bad and provided clarification on some scenes, but the titular confrontation still requires some piss poor logic to work. Lois's subplot is fleshed out more, but ultimately I think Lex creating a rampaging monster and unleashing it right in the middle of a major city and not bothering to hide had more to do with taking him down than anything Lois did lol.

[Alan2099]

I believe the bullet plot was to show how meticulous Lex's plan was:

1.He wanted to tarnish and make popular opinion go against Superman first that would prime government for his pitch to weaponise Kryptonite as a deterrent.Luckily Sen.Finch saw through it
2He killed her and all oversight over the Kryptonian ship to enable him to get the knowledge he wanted from the Kryptonian ship.The initial plan was also by the bombing to prime Batman to act , he basically gifted Batman the Kryptonite by inviting him and allowing him to steal files about Kryptonite moulding into a weapon(those files were planted as they had info on all metahumans but did not show Batman on there yet he knew who he was)

3.Doomsday was his ace in the hole( if we don't assume he rang the bell for Darkseid from the ship) to kill Superman and prove his existential crisis that all power is ravenous, cruel and destructive.

Luthor's plan was as inconsistent and nonsensical as ... pretty much the rest of his character.

He wants to frame Superman. So he shoots people. Because Superman is known for carrying around guns.
he he arranges the countroom drama so he can blow it up because if there's another thing that Superman is known for besides guns, it's explosives. (And he also kills his right hand woman who's there for no other reason than to look mysterious.)
Then he arranges a battle between Superman and Batman because ... I have no idea. The movie doesn't set up any connection between Batman and Lex.
He went in to the ship, the ship refuses to say anything because he's not Kryptonian. He tells the ship Kryptonians are dead so it decided to tell him everything.
The, in case his idea to get Batman to kill Superman doesn't work, he created an unstoppable rampaging monster that can't be controlled. Not only is there no explination as to how that even worked, but there's not even a throw away line suggesting that Lex has any idea what to do to stop Doomsday.

[Rev9]

Luthor's plan was as inconsistent and nonsensical as ... pretty much the rest of his character.

He wants to frame Superman. So he shoots people. Because Superman is known for carrying around guns.
he he arranges the countroom drama so he can blow it up because if there's another thing that Superman is known for besides guns, it's explosives. (And he also kills his right hand woman who's there for no other reason than to look mysterious.)
Then he arranges a battle between Superman and Batman because ... I have no idea. The movie doesn't set up any connection between Batman and Lex.
He went in to the ship, the ship refuses to say anything because he's not Kryptonian. He tells the ship Kryptonians are dead so it decided to tell him everything.
The, in case his idea to get Batman to kill Superman doesn't work, he created an unstoppable rampaging monster that can't be controlled. Not only is there no explination as to how that even worked, but there's not even a throw away line suggesting that Lex has any idea what to do to stop Doomsday.

On Africa incident:

1.The witness is lying
2. The CIA will not reveal the evidence to the public ,so even if guns are used public will never know and public opinion still sours
3.The most damaging thing is we have an actual CIA agent who wanted to rescue Lois but was told to stand down,a drone is sent to wipe out evidence,but Superman stops the drone,but the witness and his squad already knew there were 'friendlies' as he said in the compound meaning Lex's black ops or military contactors

What does he find when he gets there? Sure enough bodies burnt by gasoline and with bullet holes BUT critically remember the CIA witness got there after Superman that evidence seen by him and his crew could be taken to be planted or tampered with because he was told to stand down and Superman appears instead.The witness cannot know if Superman is working on his own accord or he is now a government 'cleaner'.In other words it fits a clandestine double bluff.If Superman is a strong man for the CIA, his handlers can make him rip **** up,and cover his tracks.So even if the evidence when tested is true,may not be beleived.This is exactly what it looks like, which is damaging for Superman if he is suspected to be covered by higher ups dousing bodies with gasoline and putting bullets in them after Superman is presumed to immolate them with heat vision. It is a no win scenario,either he takes the fall for something he didn't do,or even inside government there could be different accounts of what happened.The witness is key and because he came too late up to that point Kahina's tale rings true to him.If he is part of the CIA cover up point No2 is valid ,if he leaks that he feels foul play, then even true forensic evidence to exonerate Superman will be doubted

On the bombing it was NEVER about framing Superman as accomplice but tarnish his image because
I) Death follows him
II) He did not stop the bomb so he is blamed through failure

Lex is a puppet master ,he just pushes things into place he didn't need to be connected to Bruce,Bruce would do the spadework of going after Superman on his own volition without Lex but since it serves Lex's goal,why not enjoy the spectacle?

Come on you want to explain away how a Kryptonian vessel should operate like a Ford car? It is an automated system,we have nothing to specify that it was voice activated.When you crack a password on a desktop,does it mean it stops entering key commands because you are not the rightful computer owner?

As I said once doomsday is unleashed Lex doesn't care, he doesn't know how to lose,his world is right again coz the most powerful thing running around is also the most rampaging destructive one.

[Nate Grey]

The original Steppenwolf design will return

This?

Junkie XL will return to score the film

No offense to Elfman, HUGE fan, but...this is good news to me.

Kevin Costner will likely return as Jonathon Kent for a brief cameo

I am looking forward to Costner making more cameos though I cannot wait again for the talk that he was a bad dad.

Isn't this Clark's subconsciousness talking to him though? Just in the form of his dad? If it's Kent's actual spirit that's a whole other can of worms (paging Dr. Fate!).

I also read Affleck is going to do more than voice work but will also film scenes. He had to sign a contract for that and the net went wild thinking "More Batfleck movies!" No, just for Justice League, sadly.

Also Snyder posted a few days ago how all the Green Lantern stuff will be back in. I posted a video about the actor Sam Benjamin talking about how he filmed 15 minutes of a "military subplot" that all got cut and he was still under contract so he couldn't talk about it, especially the NAME of the person he was playing. Everyone speculated at the time he was playing Hal Jordan. My theory is the military subplot involved the military finding Abin Sur's spaceship and trying to remove his ring. Damn that sounds familiar...Red Son?

[Alan2099]

The more I hear about this, the more it sounds less like the movie Synder originally intended to make and the more it sounds like ideas Synder came up with much later when he was told he could do whatever he wanted.

[Rev9]

I actually think his initial idea was to tease Darkseid and make the story continue into JLeague 2 which was tentatively pegged for a 2019 release, only when WB panicked and hired Whedon to reshoot every Superman scene means our 2017 release was already nothing like Zack wanted it to be.So we are getting what he wanted to film initially.

[Nate Grey]

I actually think his initial idea was to tease Dark side and make the story continue into JLeague 2 which was tentatively pegged for a 2019 release, only when WB panicked and hired Whedon to reshoot every Superman scene means our 2017 release was already nothing like Zack wanted it to be.So we are getting what he wanted to film initially.

The historical segment where it was Steppenwolf vs Olympians, Atlanteans, and Green Lanterns, was supposed to be a pre-Darkseid Uxas. I think that's back in. So we'll get to see pre-Omega Effect Darkseid solo a bunch of people.

[Synestra]

Its obvious at this point, it is about bias agendas.

Considering that you've gone as long as you have making fanboy arguments, yes, biased agendas are obvious.

When did Snyder say Thor and others should not have movies?

Zack Snyder Calls Superman 'Broken' and Disses Thor

Like I said, what he is insinuating is clear, and not just to the people in this thread. He's literally laughing at the idea of Thor having a movie. He's also incredulous at Iron Man, a "second tier character" making 300 million domestic box office.

Superman's last movie before Man of Steel was in 2006. By 2013, Marvel already had Avengers. I can see how Snyder would want Superman to have movies for that reason alone.

His comment didn't specify a time frame, it was just "there's no Superman movie?" There were numerous Superman movies. He even says "we're on our second Hulk film" referencing the 2003 Hulk and 2008 The Incredible Hulk (one before the 2006 Superman movie, and one not long after).

The more you bring up rotten tomatoes, the more devalued the art of film criticism/reaction becomes.

Then it's a good thing Rotten Tomatoes isn't the only information showing audiences' and fans' reactions. It is a small piece of supporting evidence.

Except I understand and use the meaning of the word objective. from an objective point, Snyder's Man of steel has more value than many things out there. Snyder does not follow a shallow movie formula like Thor and Avengers.

Except you clearly don't.

Subjective - "based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions."
Objective- "(of a person or their judgment) not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts."

A: Man of Steel has more value as a film than The Avengers.
B: The Avengers has more value as a film than Man of Steel.

Are both A and B based on personal feelings, tastes, or opinions?
Yes. This is subjective.

A: The Avenger's was more successful financially and with critics and audiences than Man of Steel.
B: Man of Steel failed to make over $1 billion and was received less favorably than The Avengers.

Does both A and B represent factual information without personal feelings or opinions?
Yes. This is objective.

Now that there is an actual understanding of subjective and objective, while you make personally like Man of Steel and BvS more than the MCU movies, it is fact that they have not performed as well as the MCU movies in multiple categories.

Captain Marvel has a score of 3.9/10.

what you seem to be ignoring is, this are all small sample data, they mean nothing in the bigger picture of movies or what impact a movie can have on a person.
I can give a movie 9/10 because it was a whole lot of fun to watch
I can give another movie 7/10 but appreciate the style and thoughts of the movie a lot more.

Captain Marvel was a movie sparked controversy before it was released. People hated it and review bombed it without ever seeing it. That is a clear role reversal from Man of Steel and BvS, which both had massive amounts of hype and excitement surrounding them at the time. Despite the initial excitement, the movies under performed while Captain Marvel still made over $1 billion.

It depends on how you view Superman's character.

Then you agree this point is subjective based on how one views Superman. But you're still trying to pass anything favorable of MoS as objective fact... I could do the same in reference to BvS for Eisenberg's widely panned performance as Lex Luthor, but I don't need to. Because the point of this discussion is audience reception (it doesn't matter if opinion of Eisenberg's performance is objective of subjective, objectively it wasn't well received).

there is no marvel film that has the same religious parallels as superman did, If you can, you would have named them.

This is a straw man. I haven't said that the MCU films have religious parallels. I criticized the ones in MoS an clumsy and heavy handed. There's nothing deep about having Clark in crucifix poses all throughout the movie, or having one of the villains say "Evolution always wins."

MCU movies are fun, there are no strong themes to them like man of steel or watchmen.

This is false. The MCU has dealt with themes of trauma, PTSD, family relationships, loss, friendship, self sacrifice, etc. This is before even getting into the MCU TV shows (which are part of the MCU canon). Again, whether you liked how the themes were handled is subjective, but it is fact that the MCU is both fun and deals with strong themes.

Man of Steel made 640m

Yes, this is objective.

its more memorable

This is subjective

and still passionately talked about than iron man 3 that made 1.2 billion in 2013.

Not in a positive manner, except by Snyder fanboys. Man of Steel still receives harsh criticism to this day. All of the Avengers movies are still talked about more today, and in a positive manner, than MoS or BvS.

Its a big let down when your issues with Snyder can only be proven with RT, metacritic and Imdb. I do see these things when studios market a film, they use it for hype. I don't see them when I watch a good documentary for movies.

Except I haven't only used RT, metacritic and IMDb. I've explained to you multiple times that they are small pieces of SUPPORTING evidence for fan reaction to Man of Steel and BvS in comparison to the MCU. The biggest piece of evidence is the box office, which you attempted to hand wave and dismiss (you even went to far as to assert that BvS wasn't "given a fair chance").

You've already conceded that critics were unfavorable to Snyder's films. I have provided evidence that it wasn't just critics. Audiences also preferred the MCU, and by a vast margin.

In the future, try to be more objective. Additionally, you need to learn how to present a formal argument. Because as of right now, you have no argument.

[Nate Grey]

Fan art of Benjamin as Hal Jordan:



***

From 2018, but, as much as a confirmation from Benjamin that he was playing Hal as we're gonna get till the release: