Zack Snyder's JUSTICE LEAGUE on HBOmax in 2021!

[Castle]

1. [QUOTE=Synestra;5038445]
I did not make fan boy arguments. In the common occurrences of RT, IMDB Metacritic , that is the ultimate fanboy arguments and it so dated now.

2. It is a time frame, Thor had a movie out in 2011 and was part of a movie in 2012. Superman had not had a movie since 2006.
[QUOTE]

3. RT does not support any evidence of a movie's quality.
The good thing about rotten tomatoes - no one of high power uses it to make or get a point across. I reject and denounce RT. As Martin Scorsese and Bret Ratner once said about RT, it is offensive and damaging to movies.

4. Subjective would be based on too much personal feelings.
Objective would be based on merit and no bias.
Man of steel had had more impact because it got people looking at comic films again beyond the fun innocence in post Avengers 2012 world. this is mostly what critics hated.so critics were bias to hate on that. They were not been objective.

Objectively- audiences and critics data on rotten, tomatoes, metacritc and imdb is not about consistent quality. This is how we cannot explain how star wars reboots have high rt scores and yet many critical directors and audiences have called those movies mediocre.

If you want to keep metacritc, imdb and rotten tomatoes on the table you have to apply that to every film on RT, and you are not so that atomically makes the data irrelevant. Credibility data requires 100% consistency with every RT film.

5. Are there are excuses for captain marvel? once a data has one or two flaws the entire data is collapsed in credibility. There is no amount of excuse or one-off explanations that is enough to change that because it becomes a Pandora's box. who is to say you cannot bomb positive scores? Who is to say people don't have sock accounts rating movies 10 times. IMDB editors were already ahead. you want me to trust IMDB when their editors said I should not, just because it shows one small data you find positive? you want me to trust RT after their last 2 star wars movies did unrecoverable damage to the site?

6. another person may not see it as poor like me, however it is still better to have that in there.. It means man of steel raised more interesting themes, liked or not. its there and it counts. With Clark, it was not about a Crucifixion, it was more about ''a Savior for the world''. the central themes of region and like most religious heroes. a theme addressed again deeply in the seguel.

7.In the future, A formal argument of movies cancels out RT, IMDB and metacritc at the introduction stage.

8. MCU did not deal with trauma or ptsds. marvel did not want to approach any story relating to that. That is objective for the many who had worked with marvel. ts funny you mentioned PTSDS and truma because Ben Affleck already said Dawn of Justice was meant to be more ''adult'' or in his word.-glib and realistic themed than MCU movies. Affleck would not have said that, if marvel did deal with truma and PTSD. Affleck is a marvel fan.
[https://www.comingsoon.net/movies/news/610753-marvel-vs-dc-ben-affleck-says-dc-movies-are-a-little-more-realistic-and-less-glib[/url]

9. I remember how poorly they handled Thor's PTSDs, it is mostly unexistent in the film. Why would Snyder care about Thor? that is not how Snyder's writes characters.Batman's PTSD and truama of loosing his parents and what superman and zod did in man of steel was real and present in dawn of justice thanks to Snyder.

[Steel Inquisitor]

Bringing up Civil War is a weird flex since Cap actually DID tell Tony exactly what was going on but Tony just didn't care. That's what people are saying SHOULD HAVE happened in BvS.

Cap and Tony communicated a whole lot more, and various factors stopped them from reconciling right there. It's not that they were unable to stop fighting, it's that the characters put in all the effort they could on both sides to stop it - which was missing from B vs S. Their conversation at the airport was also far longer than every talking encounter between Batman and Superman.

[Pinsir]

Cap and Tony communicated a whole lot more, and various factors stopped them from reconciling right there. It's not that they were unable to stop fighting, it's that the characters put in all the effort they could on both sides to stop it - which was missing from B vs S. Their conversation at the airport was also far longer than every talking encounter between Batman and Superman.

Why would Batman or Superman want to talk to one another? They weren't friends or anything.

[80sbaby]

Cap and Tony communicated a whole lot more, and various factors stopped them from reconciling right there. It's not that they were unable to stop fighting, it's that the characters put in all the effort they could on both sides to stop it - which was missing from B vs S. Their conversation at the airport was also far longer than every talking encounter between Batman and Superman.

Exactly the point.

[80sbaby]

Why would Batman or Superman want to talk to one another? They weren't friends or anything.

I'd guess some people wanted them to not lead with their fists based on what we know of the characters. Especially when the alternative is trying to kill someone you don't know. In short, some fans expected them to behave better than the average person.

[Nate Grey]

Swanwick being Martian Manhunter, kinda opens up a can of worms, doesn't it?

Snyder said he knew Superman was Clark all along during that interrogation. So how long has he known? Since the shuttle crash? How long has J'onn been here exactly? A couple decades? A century? More? Is he aware of the other heroes, especially Wonder Woman and Aquaman? Was there a real Swanwick or did J'onn make up that identity?

I'm curious how Snyder was going to fit all/most of that into the movie. Maybe we'll find out it Snyder cut.

[Pinsir]

I'd guess some people wanted them to not lead with their fists based on what we know of the characters. Especially when the alternative is trying to kill someone you don't know. In short, some fans expected them to behave better than the average person.

Superman tells Batman to stop being Batman though. He doesn't lead with his fists.

[80sbaby]

Superman tells Batman to stop being Batman though. He doesn't lead with his fists.

He threatens Batman. He doesn't try to reason with him. Stop it lol

[Steel Inquisitor]

Why would Batman or Superman want to talk to one another? They weren't friends or anything.

They didn't have to be friends to talk to each other, have you watched World's Finest? They're supposed to be super-heroes, when that encounter may as well be from super-villains making edgy quips. Since when did Superman threaten people when he first mets them? Batman may not speak as much but he should have done much more in that conversation, as well. They act more like drunken frat bros trying to be edgy than their real selves.

[HsssH]

Many of their first meetings start with a fight.

[lowfyr]

Luthor's plan was as inconsistent and nonsensical as ... pretty much the rest of his character.

He wants to frame Superman. So he shoots people. Because Superman is known for carrying around guns.
he he arranges the countroom drama so he can blow it up because if there's another thing that Superman is known for besides guns, it's explosives. (And he also kills his right hand woman who's there for no other reason than to look mysterious.)
Then he arranges a battle between Superman and Batman because ... I have no idea. The movie doesn't set up any connection between Batman and Lex.
He went in to the ship, the ship refuses to say anything because he's not Kryptonian. He tells the ship Kryptonians are dead so it decided to tell him everything.
The, in case his idea to get Batman to kill Superman doesn't work, he created an unstoppable rampaging monster that can't be controlled. Not only is there no explination as to how that even worked, but there's not even a throw away line suggesting that Lex has any idea what to do to stop Doomsday.

One of the most funny things about the movie is, that Doomsday would have killed Lex seconds after awakening if Superman had not stopped him. That scene alone says a lot about the movie. And makes this version of Lex look even dumber. Mastermind is not something I would call him^^

[Rev9]

One of the most funny things about the movie is, that Doomsday would have killed Lex seconds after awakening if Superman had not stopped him. That scene alone says a lot about the movie. And makes this version of Lex look even dumber. Mastermind is not something I would call him^^

Well not all villains are masterminds working for self preservation ,some are nihilists at heart and those are even more menacing. Dark knight Joker or Crisis on Two Earths Owlman and now DoJ Lex

[Midvillian1322]

Well not all villains are masterminds working for self preservation ,some are nihilists at heart and those are even more menacing. Dark knight Joker or Crisis on Two Earths Owlman and now DoJ Lex

Expect hes Cleary not nihilistic outside his view on God. Hes a egomaniac who wants to assert domiance over everyone. He even says Doomsday will obey only him. Guess he thought cause he used his blood. Not well thought out since the movie shows us nothing that suggest that would work. Lex has nothing in common with TDK Joker at all. He want to be superior to everyone, that doesn't work if he burns it all down. He wanted Doomsday to be his weapons which doesn't work for even a second.

[WebLurker]

I believe the bullet plot was to show how meticulous Lex's plan was...

Honestly, Lex's whole plan made no sense to me. For it to work, he needed to know both Batman and Superman's secret identities (never established, as I recall) and that Batman wanted to kill Superman (how did he know that?) and that Batman would break his code to do it (maybe he guessed right, based on Batman having become a brutal thug to branded people, but still). It's too many cogs that need to be just right, too many coincidences that Lex can't control to make the plan work. And Doomsday was just overkill, at best.

In the movie the bullet plot ultimately serves to set Lois to uncover the plot and clear Superman's name in Africa and quell questions about Superman's inbaility to stop the Capitol bombing as Lex would go to jail for creating Doomsday anyway

Not in the movie. The bullet subplot in the extended edition just doesn't work on any level. First of all, Lex has to grab the idiot ball big time for it to happen; the bullets are custom-made only by his company. He literally left his fingerprints all over the scene of the crime. Secondly, having Lois trace the bullet is a painful waste of the runtime. It literally does nothing for the story as filmed; she's kidnapped by Lex right after discovering the truth and it gets dropped. The revelation does not factor into the story at all, not even by having her tell Superman before being kidnapped and so having Superman go to Lex and have Lex set up the Batman battle. Whoever cut this made the right decision. If they wanted Lois to have a detective subplot, there needed to be payoff that actually affected the final act (e.g. how Obi-Wan's tracing Jango Fett in Attack of the Clones has him find the clone army, the discovery of which lets Yoda bring them to the battle at the end).

the knightmare sequence in film strengthens Batman's resolve to destroy Superman ,but ultimately it gets more relevance with the new ZSJL being released

We don't need that scene to show Batman's resolve; it made perfect sense on its own. It's just a teaser for the JL movies Snyder won't get a chance to make. That should've been cut, esp. since the things didn't work out and now it's just an abandoned thread in the DCEU. (I do get that the Snyder Cut JL movie can build on that, but that's a one off of a "part one" with no part two. This isn't going to go anywhere.) Marvel does this better, where these kinds of set ups are either incorporated into the story with relevance (like how the Infinity Stones were set up by putting them in movies where they could be the macguffins that drove the stories) or in stingers at the end, where they didn't hold up the main story. (The same goes for stopping the movie for Batman to watch teaser trailers of upcoming solo movies DC wanted to spin off afterwards.)

Am I making any sense here?

RT does not support any evidence of a movie's quality.
The good thing about rotten tomatoes - no one of high power uses it to make or get a point across. I reject and denounce RT. As Martin Scorsese and Bret Ratner once said about RT, it is offensive and damaging to movies.

RT is just a review aggregate site. No more, no less. It does not have the power ascribed to it, due to its inherent nature.

Are there are excuses for captain marvel?

As Carol Danvers herself said, the movie has nothing to prove; it was a critical and commercial success, that's not up for debate.

MCU did not deal with trauma or ptsds.

Iron Man 3, Thor 2, Winter Solider, Guardians of the Galaxy 1 and 2 (seeped) in it), Black Panther, Ant-Man and the Wasp, Endgame, and Far From Home did in one way or another, or with similar themes. We also get questions of where the line is drawn with oversight in Civil War, discussion of parent/child relationships in the Ant-Man movies, race issues with Black Panther, and Spider-Man struggles to find his place, as he always does. Humor does not equate to a lack of substance by default. Heck, a good case can be made that the pop music-filled, joke-a-minute space opera with talking trees and raccoons had more maturity then the grimdark clash of the Man of Tomorrow and Dark Knight that boiled down to a kid smashing his action figures together again and again.

[Midvillian1322]

Honestly, Lex's whole plan made no sense to me. For it to work, he needed to know both Batman and Superman's secret identities (never established, as I recall) and that Batman wanted to kill Superman (how did he know that?) and that Batman would break his code to do it (maybe he guessed right, based on Batman having become a brutal thug to branded people, but still). It's too many cogs that need to be just right, too many coincidences that Lex can't control to make the plan work. And Doomsday was just overkill, at best.



Not in the movie. The bullet subplot in the extended edition just doesn't work on any level. First of all, Lex has to grab the idiot ball big time for it to happen; the bullets are custom-made only by his company. He literally left his fingerprints all over the scene of the crime. Secondly, having Lois trace the bullet is a painful waste of the runtime. It literally does nothing for the story as filmed; she's kidnapped by Lex right after discovering the truth and it gets dropped. The revelation does not factor into the story at all, not even by having her tell Superman before being kidnapped and so having Superman go to Lex and have Lex set up the Batman battle. Whoever cut this made the right decision. If they wanted Lois to have a detective subplot, there needed to be payoff that actually affected the final act (e.g. how Obi-Wan's tracing Jango Fett in Attack of the Clones has him find the clone army, the discovery of which lets Yoda bring them to the battle at the end).



We don't need that scene to show Batman's resolve; it made perfect sense on its own. It's just a teaser for the JL movies Snyder won't get a chance to make. That should've been cut, esp. since the things didn't work out and now it's just an abandoned thread in the DCEU. (I do get that the Snyder Cut JL movie can build on that, but that's a one off of a "part one" with no part two. This isn't going to go anywhere.) Marvel does this better, where these kinds of set ups are either incorporated into the story with relevance (like how the Infinity Stones were set up by putting them in movies where they could be the macguffins that drove the stories) or in stingers at the end, where they didn't hold up the main story. (The same goes for stopping the movie for Batman to watch teaser trailers of upcoming solo movies DC wanted to spin off afterwards.)

Am I making any sense here?




RT is just a review aggregate site. No more, no less. It does not have the power ascribed to it, due to its inherent nature.



As Carol Danvers herself said, the movie has nothing to prove; it was a critical and commercial success, that's not up for debate.



Iron Man 3, Thor 2, Winter Solider, Guardians of the Galaxy 1 and 2 (seeped) in it), Black Panther, Ant-Man and the Wasp, Endgame, and Far From Home did in one way or another, or with similar themes. We also get questions of where the line is drawn with oversight in Civil War, discussion of parent/child relationships in the Ant-Man movies, race issues with Black Panther, and Spider-Man struggles to find his place, as he always does. Humor does not equate to a lack of substance by default. Heck, a good case can be made that the pop music-filled, joke-a-minute space opera with talking trees and raccoons had more maturity then the grimdark clash of the Man of Tomorrow and Dark Knight that boiled down to a kid smashing his action figures together again and again.

Lol at The MCU doesn't deal with Trauma. The first GOTG was all about Trauma. Groot is the only character who isn't scarred by trauma.