Zack Snyder's JUSTICE LEAGUE on HBOmax in 2021!

[Midvillian1322]

His next comment will likley be that objectivly the Guardians movie did not deal with Trauma, because it was a "comedy", Ignoring the fact that movies can be one thing and have others too. I mean even Nolans Dark Knight had jokes in it.

You called it lol

GOTG literaly is about trauma and you can see the different way people deal with trauma. Quill couldn't cope with the seriousness of his trauma, so now he takes nothing serious. Gamora channels hers and is goal oriented. Only focused on the task at hand. Rocket lashes out and pushes everyone away(Except groot). Hide behind sarcasm and insults. Drax internalizes everything and was suicidal. One my favorite scenes is from GOTG 2 where mantis touches drax. Drax looks fine on the outside, but when she feels what he's feeling she breaks down immediately. A great subtle scene to give us a glimpse inside drax. We also see the scars of Rockets trauma. When he takes his shirt off and talks about how they Tore him apart and put him back together again or whatever the exact quote was. He's covered in scars and cybernetic implants. There's a reason GOTG got so much praise is a comedy that know when to get dark. Guns a good writer

[Conn Seanery]

Some of you seem to be under the misconception that just because you're disagreeing with someone that you have permission to be rude, insulting, condescending, or disrespectful toward them. If I see anymore of that I will be happy to start bouncing people from the site. Be civil or go away.

[AnakinFlair]

I believe the bullet plot was to show how meticulous Lex's plan was:

1.He wanted to tarnish and make popular opinion go against Superman first .This he figured would prime government for his pitch to weaponise Kryptonite as a deterrent. Through employing a witness to give false testimony full well knowing CIA would not defend Superman and he would be a perfect scapegoat for a botched CIA operation in an international conflict.Luckily Sen.Finch saw through it
2He killed her and all oversight over the Kryptonian ship with the disabled witness as an unaware Trojan horse(who he also got out of jail for defacing the Superman monument).He probably was always eager for the ship's knowledge to enable him to find how he could kill Superman without the Kryptonite or maybe just because he wanted to know ..are Kryptonians really the most powerful beings in the universe?
The initial plan was also by the bombing to prime Batman to act , he basically gifted Batman the Kryptonite by inviting him and allowing him to steal files about Kryptonite moulding into a weapon(those files were planted as they had info on all metahumans but no Superman so that Batman would not see Superman as a mere man but an alien yet Lex knew not only Superman's but even Batman's secret identity)

3.Doomsday was his ace in the hole( if we don't assume he rang the bell for Darkseid from the ship) to kill Superman and prove his existential crisis that all power is ravenous, cruel and destructive.

In the movie the bullet plot ultimately serves to set Lois to uncover the plot and clear Superman's name in Africa and quell questions about Superman's inbaility to stop the Capitol bombing as Lex would go to jail for creating Doomsday anyway

the knightmare sequence in film strengthens Batman's resolve to destroy Superman ,but ultimately it gets more relevance with the new ZSJL being released

Lex's master plan is deeply personal,he was abused by his father in private and used for charity in public.So he mistrusts powerful figures he feels Superman is a phoney who because of his power and benevolence does not fit with Lex's axiom ,to him power can't be innocent, his world view means Superman is an aberration to him at least, Doomsday is his attempt to equate the scale if Superman is no phoney but ultimately good,then Lex creates the Devil to destroy the idea of good above all.He is basically a misotheist who has lost faith in any form of good that he projects on a being that is his stand in for a Christian(abrahamic)concept of deity

He knows what he knows because his reach is vast,his power is knowledge,he has military contracts, research and technology that puts him close to black projects and that means Kryptonian ship in the film.He has cameras at most likely his own banks or retail stores if not relayed to him by those that employ his surveillance equipment ,or maybe he among other ventures does data mininng for the Pentagon.Point is he even has deep sea search vessels again if not got from his contacts in Pentagon and CIA so his reach means his face recognition software on his platforms inevitably made him aware of who Bruce and Clark were.It is not hard to believe in this day and age with the troubles Facebook has post 2016

See, I always figured that Darkseid was somehow influencing Lex, and to a lesser extent Bruce. It was never really made clear how though.

[WebLurker]

See, I always figured that Darkseid was somehow influencing Lex, and to a lesser extent Bruce. It was never really made clear how though.

Could see Lex being influenced, with the extra scene of him learning about the New Gods in the extended version and his ravings that "they" are coming at the end of the movie. No clue how he could've been pulling Batman's strings, though (unless he was the one who gave Bruce the Knightmare?).

[AnakinFlair]

Could see Lex being influenced, with the extra scene of him learning about the New Gods in the extended version and his ravings that "they" are coming at the end of the movie. No clue how he could've been pulling Batman's strings, though (unless he was the one who gave Bruce the Knightmare?).

Yeah, I thought that maybe Darkseid was sending (or having one of his mionions send) visions to both Lex and Bruce. For Bruce, they sent him the Knightmare vision, and maybe influenced his dreams to increase his paranoia. For Lex, it almost felt more like they... not took control, but influenced Lex to a greater degree. The scene at the end in the extended edition that showed Steppenwolf with the Mother Boxes, I wondered if maybe it was actually Steppenwolf communicating directly with Lex.

[WebLurker]

Yeah, I thought that maybe Darkseid was sending (or having one of his mionions send) visions to both Lex and Bruce. For Bruce, they sent him the Knightmare vision, and maybe influenced his dreams to increase his paranoia.

Has Zack Snyder ever explained what that scene was about (beyond the obvious set up for his two-part JL saga that didn't quite work out)?

For Lex, it almost felt more like they... not took control, but influenced Lex to a greater degree. The scene at the end in the extended edition that showed Steppenwolf with the Mother Boxes, I wondered if maybe it was actually Steppenwolf communicating directly with Lex.

Maybe, although if so, it's kinda disappointing that Lex didn't factor in the JL movie somehow.

[dswynne]

Personally, I would have used STARRO as the first JL villain.

Scenario: Starro would be used to pave the way to take over a target planet (think of Invasion of the Body Snatchers). Once complete, Darkseid would send his henchmen (in this case, Steppenwolf) to begin the harvesting of the target planet.

Unfortunately, thanks to Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman nerfing Starro's operation (via Lex Luthor), Steppenwolf is sent to Earth earlier than expected. When HE failed, that got Darkseid's attention. Film at 11.

[AnakinFlair]

Has Zack Snyder ever explained what that scene was about (beyond the obvious set up for his two-part JL saga that didn't quite work out)?

Maybe, although if so, it's kinda disappointing that Lex didn't factor in the JL movie somehow.

I think the most he has said was that the Knightmare scene was setting up something for the original pitch he gave for the Justice League movie, when it was still two parts. IIRC, We'd get to see Earth taken over by Darkseid with Superman as his main enforcer, having been corrupted by the Anti-Life equation. That would set up Barry time traveling back to the past to prevent that future from happening, or something like that. But I don't know if that carried over to the draft of the story when it was just cut down to one movie.

Also, it's possible Lex had a larger role in his cut, but I've never heard anything about it. I do wonder if Lex and Deathstroke are in his cut, or if Whedon added that scene himself to set up a sequel (that we'll also never see).

Personally, I would have used STARRO as the first JL villain.

Scenario: Starro would be used to pave the way to take over a target planet (think of Invasion of the Body Snatchers). Once complete, Darkseid would send his henchmen (in this case, Steppenwolf) to begin the harvesting of the target planet.

Unfortunately, thanks to Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman nerfing Starro's operation (via Lex Luthor), Steppenwolf is sent to Earth earlier than expected. When HE failed, that got Darkseid's attention. Film at 11.

Are you saying have Starro be the thing controlling Lex? That could have been interesting.

Starro is such a weird villain though. On one hand, it just looks goofy having a giant alien starfish attach smaller starfishes to people to control them. On the other hand, if done properly, it could be terrifying.

[Castle]

Personally, I would have used STARRO as the first JL villain.

Scenario: Starro would be used to pave the way to take over a target planet (think of Invasion of the Body Snatchers). Once complete, Darkseid would send his henchmen (in this case, Steppenwolf) to begin the harvesting of the target planet.

Unfortunately, thanks to Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman nerfing Starro's operation (via Lex Luthor), Steppenwolf is sent to Earth earlier than expected. When HE failed, that got Darkseid's attention. Film at 11.

Was steppenwolf ever part of the plan? he was so awkward and out of place in the movie.

[Midvillian1322]

Was steppenwolf ever part of the plan? he was so awkward and out of place in the movie.

Snyder said the new cut will have his original design for Steppenwolf. So yea id assume so. If the concept art someone posted a few pages back is Snyders design I dont see it being much of an improvement.

[Castle]

Snyder said the new cut will have his original design for Steppenwolf. So yea id assume so. If the concept art someone posted a few pages back is Snyders design I dont see it being much of an improvement.

Its not the design that I was talking about, its the character. Whedon perhaps was trying to make him into another Loki. I don't think that is how Snyder envisioned the character.

[Midvillian1322]

Its not the design that I was talking about, its the character. Whedon perhaps was trying to make him into another Loki. I don't think that is how Snyder envisioned the character.

You asked if Steppenwolf was ever part of the plan..

How is steppenwolf anything like Loki... in any way? I'm racking my brain and all I can come up with is that they both served someone stronger(Thanos and Darkseid). But Loki was after he was established and did it to get revenge and take earth. Steppenwolf was just serving Darkseid and had no personality. Supposedly Snyder intended for him to try and use the motherbox to take power from Darkseid but who knows if that was true.

[lowfyr]

You called it lol

GOTG literaly is about trauma and you can see the different way people deal with trauma. Quill couldn't cope with the seriousness of his trauma, so now he takes nothing serious. Gamora channels hers and is goal oriented. Only focused on the task at hand. Rocket lashes out and pushes everyone away(Except groot). Hide behind sarcasm and insults. Drax internalizes everything and was suicidal. One my favorite scenes is from GOTG 2 where mantis touches drax. Drax looks fine on the outside, but when she feels what he's feeling she breaks down immediately. A great subtle scene to give us a glimpse inside drax. We also see the scars of Rockets trauma. When he takes his shirt off and talks about how they Tore him apart and put him back together again or whatever the exact quote was. He's covered in scars and cybernetic implants. There's a reason GOTG got so much praise is a comedy that know when to get dark. Guns a good writer

not that difficult, sadly.

True.

And as someone said before the only one who isn't is Groot.

I mean how can anyone watch the Nebula Gamora Scene in Guardians Part 2 and say in earnesty that the movies did not deal with trauma?

[lowfyr]

Its not the design that I was talking about, its the character. Whedon perhaps was trying to make him into another Loki. I don't think that is how Snyder envisioned the character.

He meant that Snyder talking about him implies that Steppenwolf was always part of the plan. And to make him another Loki the movie would have to be even longer than the Snyder Cut, because I do not think we will get Steppenwolf having more character in his Version. He will just look different. Currently Doomsday in Dawn had more character than Steppenwolf.

[lowfyr]

I think the most he has said was that the Knightmare scene was setting up something for the original pitch he gave for the Justice League movie, when it was still two parts. IIRC, We'd get to see Earth taken over by Darkseid with Superman as his main enforcer, having been corrupted by the Anti-Life equation. That would set up Barry time traveling back to the past to prevent that future from happening, or something like that. But I don't know if that carried over to the draft of the story when it was just cut down to one movie.

Also, it's possible Lex had a larger role in his cut, but I've never heard anything about it. I do wonder if Lex and Deathstroke are in his cut, or if Whedon added that scene himself to set up a sequel (that we'll also never see).






Are you saying have Starro be the thing controlling Lex? That could have been interesting.

Starro is such a weird villain though. On one hand, it just looks goofy having a giant alien starfish attach smaller starfishes to people to control them. On the other hand, if done properly, it could be terrifying.

True, Starro could work. I mean imagine a group of his hosts talking like one changing between them mid-sentence would be pretty chilling for example.