Zack Snyder's JUSTICE LEAGUE on HBOmax in 2021!

[Steel Inquisitor]

I think that question was meant to be answered in JL and it was. It'll probably be elaborated on more in the Snyder cut.

He could have given an answer in B vs S, and expanded on it in JL - instead it just appears like he's great at setting up questions but has no answers so it felt empty. I don't know what we'e supposed to think of how the public views Superman. Every movie is a gamble, sequels aren't guaranteed. Snyders lucky he's even able to do the director's cut of JL.

[CliffHanger2]

He could have given an answer in B vs S, and expanded on it in JL - instead it just appears like he's great at setting up questions but has no answers so it felt empty. I don't know what we'e supposed to think of how the public views Superman. Every movie is a gamble, sequels aren't guaranteed. Snyders lucky he's even able to do the director's cut of JL.

That part of how the public views him was answered at the end. When the world was shown mourning his death. It was mixed during the movie with some kinda worshiping him and others being guarded but not outright hating him-for the most part.

There was that scene when he saved the girl in from the burning building and the ppl were bowing and touching him. And he seemed appreciative and uncomfortable at the same time. Pretty good acting by Cavil.

[Rev9]

Depends on how much work Snyder does to his version. He had plans for like 3 movies, and I doubt he’ll get to do them.

That depends on whether this movie goes a long way to increase HBO max subscriptions and money for HBO/AT&T .In any case to tease Darkseid is sort of a pointer that he could do JL2.I'm sure he(Zack)didn't talk with them about merely releasing the cut, at a minimum yes but for him to reshoot some scenes,finish VFX kind of implies he talked about his entire vision being showcased and they probably okayed it.To tease Darkseid at the end of the film without follow up is strange bearing in mind we are being told he is not compromising on his vision

[Steel Inquisitor]

That part of how the public views him was answered at the end. When the world was shown mourning his death. It was mixed during the movie with some kinda worshiping him and others being guarded but not outright hating him-for the most part.

That "answer" was too far from the "question," especially in a 3 hour movie. It appeared to be dropped every single time its bought up, like in the media segment all we get is "he is what he is" like it's a definitive statement from Holly Hunter and the court explodes before things get interesting. B vs S really needed the subject explored more, like though the media. He's a reporter, he should be around all those opinions as day job instead just has a boss who wants him to cover sports when he's not a sports reporter. Unless I'm terribly mistaken, did Snyder make Clark a sports reporter?

There was that scene when he saved the girl in from the burning building and the ppl were bowing and touching him. And he seemed appreciative and uncomfortable at the same time. Pretty good acting by Cavil.

That was weird AF. Like performance art rather than real people reacting to him, and we see Superman act uncomfortable but rather than communicate with people and address their concerns he just has an awkward expression and never talks about it. If this is something that regular happens to him it it's shown properly, and nobody notices him on not enjoying the attention - which should have been acknowledged in the media segment.

[Rev9]

That "answer" was too far from the "question," especially in a 3 hour movie. It appeared to be dropped every single time its bought up, like in the media segment all we get is "he is what he is" like it's a definitive statement from Holly Hunter and the court explodes before things get interesting. B vs S really needed the subject explored more, like though the media. He's a reporter, he should be around all those opinions as day job instead just has a boss who wants him to cover sports when he's not a sports reporter. Unless I'm terribly mistaken, did Snyder make Clark a sports reporter?



That was weird AF. Like performance art rather than real people reacting to him, and we see Superman act uncomfortable but rather than communicate with people and address their concerns he just has an awkward expression and never talks about it. If this is something that regular happens to him it it's shown properly, and nobody notices him on not enjoying the attention - which should have been acknowledged in the media segment.

That "answer" was too far from the "question," especially in a 3 hour movie. It appeared to be dropped every single time its bought up, like in the media segment all we get is "he is what he is" like it's a definitive statement from Holly Hunter and the court explodes before things get interesting. B vs S really needed the subject explored more, like though the media. He's a reporter, he should be around all those opinions as day job instead just has a boss who wants him to cover sports when he's not a sports reporter. Unless I'm terribly mistaken, did Snyder make Clark a sports reporter?



That was weird AF. Like performance art rather than real people reacting to him, and we see Superman act uncomfortable but rather than communicate with people and address their concerns he just has an awkward expression and never talks about it. If this is something that regular happens to him it it's shown properly, and nobody notices him on not enjoying the attention - which should have been acknowledged in the media segment.

I guess the problem for many in this movie is the perception that somehow words or pontification here and there will garner a greater following basically basking in celebrity status.However heroism is heroism when it is not done out of a sense of duty or obligation,true heroism is heroism when you just do it coz it's the right thing to do not some photo op or platitudes. That's how I take it anyway, so for me his reticent performance is ok.I mean even if people want him to speak,how can anyone relate to what he goes through? Maybe in JL with other like him it carries more weight that he doesn't feel alone in being talked about so much but in BvS it is realistic, only his mother and Lois really get him as normal or see the duality of the real him

[Steel Inquisitor]

I guess the problem for many in this movie is the perception that somehow words or pontification here and there will garner a greater following basically basking in celebrity status.However heroism is heroism when it is not done out of a sense of duty or obligation,true heroism is heroism when you just do it coz it's the right thing to do not some photo op or platitudes.That's how I take it anyway, so for me his reticent performance is ok.I mean even if people want him to speak,how can anyone relate to what he goes through? Maybe in JL with other like him it carries more weight that he doesn't feel alone in bring talked about so much but in BvS it is realistic, only his mother and Lois really get him.

It's about communication, not pontification. Characters expressing themselves is a crucial element in film making, nobody has any problems with other directors like Nolan because they are able to do this properly. Talking to reporters and the media behind the scenes isn't doing photo ops, either - that's what Clark does as a profession. Photo ops are also a signature ability Superman is supposed to be good at, and he's supposed to do this because he's charismatic, speaks clearly and means what he says. Snyder's Superman is not a talker, Whedon added numerous talking scenes he didn't originally have with Snyder - like when he fought the JL, the intro and the last act. WE relate to him by him telling us how he feels and his opinions, being a silent god only puts more distance between us and him. IIRC he's heavily influenced by Dr. Manhattan, the person who is defined by losing touch with his humanity and he expressed himself more in the Watchmen movie than Superman in B vs S.

[Rev9]

It's about communication, not pontification. Characters expressing themselves is a crucial element in film making, nobody has any problems with other directors like Nolan because they are able to do this properly. Talking to reporters and the media behind the scenes isn't doing photo ops, either - that's what Clark does as a profession. Photo ops are also a signature ability Superman is supposed to be good at, and he's supposed to do this because he's charismatic, speaks clearly and means what he says. Snyder's Superman is not a talker, Whedon added numerous talking scenes he didn't originally have with Snyder - like when he fought the JL, the intro and the last act. WE relate to him by him telling us how he feels and his opinions, being a silent god only puts more distance between us and him. IIRC he's heavily influenced by Dr. Manhattan, the person who is defined by losing touch with his humanity and he expressed himself more in the Watchmen movie than Superman in B vs S.

I thought as Clark he expressed himself very well, as a reporter to Bruce ,to his fellow staff and that shows as a person he relates and understands humanity, the onus is on humanity to relate positively to him, but the movie realistically shows few can.However they do,Bruce came around in the most dramatic way because he saw the humanity in him.
I think Superman in this movie is facing a journey,no body says he can't be charismatic and talk to people as superman but in the real world such is life that you need cautious optimism not foolhardy optimism.He is an alien,to show humanity in love with him by virtue of his power alone is disingenuous .That's not how the world works, it's like saying speaking on camera will always get your point across when we know your words can be misconstrued or have something read into them by the reporters that belies their true meaning.

[Castle]

But was what Snyder wanted to do a good fit for the character in question? That is the million dollar question.
.

It was. 100%.

High stakes sci-fi plot? Heavy character focus? Emphasis on the comic book-iness of things over realism? Not ashamed of comic relief? That's Marvel Studios' wheelhouse. (Maybe compare it a bit more to Winter Soldier? Granted, that movie is played more for its drama and is relatively more grounded, but the point remains.)

No its a bit more to DC movies. the movie was compared to TDK, You wouldn't even know Winter Solider came out the same year since there was no similarities to both films.

The level of Drama is bigger than winter solider. winter solider is more action with drama in it. the
themes are more fleshed out than winter solider . I am sure Winter Solider would need no censorship and has a lot of Fiege producing. Fiege would have produced DOFP so that cancels its marvel similarities. Zod has the same story as Magneto. Superman is treated like a mutant to hate and fear.

How's that relevant? Nudity and profanity are not mature in and of themselves (heck, they're often used for immature humor).

Nah, you don't get why it is used? nudity and profanity are part of everyday life, its immature to pretend it is not. its bold and realistic to have it there. Also you have to ask if it works well in the film or not.
If you want immature humour try 99% of MCU- recent Star Wars films since the humour in those films are there to dumb down the movie and to think people expected Snyder to do this, no wonder Whedon's JL movie sucked. You do know also that censorship is not about just about profanity, it can mostly has more to do with tone, violence and character's behaviour and subplots?

you can call something immature like the F word that deserved to be censored to feel better about another movie that can have it there for kids, but you cannot explain away a subplot that shows drug abuse, bullet shot wounds on a human , mental illness or realistic PTSDS getting censored.

See point one; should that be done?

Bring Back Henry, Make Man of Steel 2

The pacing of the ending is the least of the movie's problems and reason why some of us maintain that it lacks greatness. Consider Superman's lack of a story arc and how Batman's is undermined by his actions vs his words. How characters disappear partway through the narrative, the mess that is Lex Luthor, Jr., how the plot falls apart if you try to lay it out, and the lack of self control in inserting scenes that have nothing to do with the story and only exist to tease us about completely unrelated movies that where going to come out later.

Have you solved this mystery that the ''some'' that argue against the greatness are so sweet to the presumed competitor? I have already debunked this complaint. Did you say Superman had no story arc?
ok , am done.

First it was Clark was to moody and angsty, now he has no story arc. this is the same character that is conflicted for the whole film and only started to take baby steps in becoming the Superman we know and love

[Midvillian1322]

That depends on whether this movie goes a long way to increase HBO max subscriptions and money for HBO/AT&T .In any case to tease Darkseid is sort of a pointer that he could do JL2.I'm sure he(Zack)didn't talk with them about merely releasing the cut, at a minimum yes but for him to reshoot some scenes,finish VFX kind of implies he talked about his entire vision being showcased and they probably okayed it.To tease Darkseid at the end of the film without follow up is strange bearing in mind we are being told he is not compromising on his vision

Im happy the people who wanted it are getting the Snyder cut but unless this is raved as one the best CBMs ever. Which we have no reason to think will happen given reaction to BvS. Theres no way WBs let's him make another one. Hes just getting to finish a movie he already filmed. They gonna tease stuff for a movie we never gonna see because that was his orginal plan.

[Castle]

Superman absolutely needs to move away from Reeves nostalgia. Snyder was absolutely not the way to do it.

Donner and Snyder shouldn't have to be our only two options. Hell, Snyder just rehashed Donner yet again but threw some grit onto it. The movies need to realize there is more to Superman's world than Clois, Ghost Dad, Lex and Zod or that he has other storylines besides getting killed by Doomsday.

But that is the plot twist isn't it. some dont want him to move away from Reeves nostalgia.

What is becoming ironic is that every Superman animated movie since the 90s has more in common with Snyder's Superman than Reeves.

If Nolan had directed man of steel, it will be 75% of the same film we got. Superman returns moved away from Reeves.

[Rev9]

Im happy the people who wanted it are getting the Snyder cut but unless this is raved as one the best CBMs ever. Which we have no reason to think will happen given reaction to BvS. Theres no way WBs let's him make another one. Hes just getting to finish a movie he already filmed. They gonna tease stuff for a movie we never gonna see because that was his orginal plan.

Both times WB screwed Zack over, if BvS was shown in theatres entirely as the ultimate cut response though divisive would not be anywhere near as scathing as it was.Many people concede they liked the movie even after hating the theatre cut.So I guess that alone plus the incredibly poor Justice League we got again because of heavy studio interference into the shadows when we know ZSJL is the true follow up to Dawn of Justice. There is absolutely no way ZSJL can be perceived as worse than what we got.It not only is the full trilogy arc Zack intended ,it will make BvS and MoS look better in hindsight. So I wouldn't try to pour cold water on this.Fans have been primed for a serious and deep take on the mythos, they clamoured for the vision to be completed, whether it stops on a trilogy or we get a 'quintilogy' remains to be seen

[Castle]

Both times WB screwed Zack over, if BvS was shown in theatres entirely as the ultimate cut response though divisive would not be anywhere near as scathing as it was.Many people concede they liked the movie even after hating the theatre cut.So I guess that alone plus the incredibly poor Justice League we got again because of heavy studio interference means there is absolutely no way ZSJL can be perceived as worse than what we got.It not only is the full trilogy arc Zack intended ,it will make BvS and MoS look better in hindsight. So I wouldn't try to pour cold water on this.Fans have been primed for a serious and deep take on the mythos, they clamoured for the vision to be completed, whether it stops on a trilogy or we get a 'quintilogy' remains to be seen

Did Snyder intend for the original cut to be the original theatre film? Either way it was just poor timing. when the BvS cut was released many jumped on the Deadpool copycat bandwagon since the cut was rated R and that became the focus of the movie, they all had memory loss that Watchmen was rated r first before Deadpool so its not like Snyder was leaching of R rated movies, he was already a master of one.

While I fault WB I can understand the pressure, however they should have ignored all the criticisms and forged ahead with the completed Snyder trilogy.

[Rev9]

Did Snyder intend for the original cut to be the original theatre film? Either way it was just poor timing. when the BvS cut was released many jumped on the Deadpool copycat bandwagon since the cut was rated R and that became the focus of the movie, they all had memory loss that Watchmen was rated r first before Deadpool so its not like Snyder was leaching of R rated movies, he was already a master of one.

While I fault WB I can understand the pressure, however they should have ignored all the criticisms and forged ahead with the completed Snyder trilogy.

I don't know if he intended it,my thinking is he did but WB wanted a shorter run time so that by their calculus more screenings would translate into more cinema revenue.It was a purely profit margin decision.

Yes definitely while the critics score was 27% the audience was about 65 on RT and as you rightly keep mentioning RT metrics and scores do nothing to aggregate the opinion of a film when they jumble up all scores as rotten along some arbitrary mark.They should have just forged ahead 873million at the box office is nothing to sneeze at

[CliffHanger2]

That "answer" was too far from the "question," especially in a 3 hour movie. It appeared to be dropped every single time its bought up, like in the media segment all we get is "he is what he is" like it's a definitive statement from Holly Hunter and the court explodes before things get interesting. B vs S really needed the subject explored more, like though the media. He's a reporter, he should be around all those opinions as day job instead just has a boss who wants him to cover sports when he's not a sports reporter. Unless I'm terribly mistaken, did Snyder make Clark a sports reporter?



That was weird AF. Like performance art rather than real people reacting to him, and we see Superman act uncomfortable but rather than communicate with people and address their concerns he just has an awkward expression and never talks about it. If this is something that regular happens to him it it's shown properly, and nobody notices him on not enjoying the attention - which should have been acknowledged in the media segment.

Yeah but his lack of communication and him being disinterested. Or unable at times to express himself was deliberate. It was a point in the story that he had problems communicating with the masses. Snyder chose to present it that way. We weren't meant to have a clear answer all throughout. I don't remember if Clark was supposed to be a sports reporter.

[Steel Inquisitor]

I thought as Clark he expressed himself very well, as a reporter to Bruce ,to his fellow staff and that shows as a person he relates and understands humanity, the onus is on humanity to relate positively to him, but the movie realistically shows few can.However they do,Bruce came around in the most dramatic way because he saw the humanity in him.

He was fine showing his humanity as Clark, but I was focusing on him speaking about Superman to the press and his own colleagues since he is a reporter. He can do things to help himself when he's not Superman with his colleagues in the industry, this Clark just didn't. I disagree, Superman is known to gather supporters by reaching out to them first and being easy to talk to, Steve Rogers does this in the MCU. Since he's an unknown to them misunderstanding can hurt him in the public eye and his enemies or media personalities who want to sensationalise him for ratings will take advantage. This Superman rejects doing all of this and just expects people to support him.

Bruce only came around when he nearly killed Superman, not because Superman talked him down. During their conflict they didn't really speak to each other, it was mostly threats and posturing.

I think Superman in this movie is facing a journey,no body says he can't be charismatic and talk to people as superman but in the real world such is life that you need cautious optimism not foolhardy optimism.He is an alien,to show humanity in love with him by virtue of his power alone is disingenuous .That's not how the world works, it's like saying speaking on camera will always get your point across when we know your words can be misconstrued or have something read into them by the reporters that belies their true meaning.

Being on a journey requires the audience to know what he's thinking at every part of it, Nolan does this with the Dark Knight trilogy. Nobody is unclear what his Batman thinks about anything. Except this Superman doesn't do either, he's not that talkative unless you're in his inner circle and when we follow him as an audience he remains at a distance because he doesn't really talk that much about his opinions. This is about communication, not about cynicism or optimism. Characters can be cynics and be an open book to the audience. The problem here is that this Superman doesn't speak clearly enough about where he stands and his actions rarely help him, since they're constantly in a sinister light. His first encounter with Batman being threats, his indifference to the criminals Batman was fighting seconds before they met and so on. All communication can be a risk at being misread, which is vital for film makers that their characters aren't being vulnerable to be misread.

This sort of thing is more like how Batman would act since he's not meant to be a people person, and he's a darker character but Superman is someone who's able to be more open about his thoughts and feelings. Clark did do this in Man of Steel more, like with the priest but he's still too passive - he spends too much time taking the direction of others than making his own decisions.