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  1. #781
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thezmage View Post
    Sure, NOW. Thee are plenty of black superheroes out there right now that aren't skateboarders with electrical powers it doesn't change the fact that Cyborg was part of a trend in superheroes where black superheroes were allowed but their bodies were still criminalized
    Yeah, now. I don't know about the trend 40 years ago, but I know that there's plenty of black characters with their bodies in tact on screen today. So why, in the now, is a Cyborg movie such a bad thing?

  2. #782
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Yeah, now. I don't know about the trend 40 years ago, but I know that there's plenty of black characters with their bodies in tact on screen today. So why, in the now, is a Cyborg movie such a bad thing?
    Black bodies are still being criminalized today.

    Anyways, you asked what relevance the missing body parts was, I told you

  3. #783
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thezmage View Post
    Black bodies are still being criminalized today.

    Anyways, you asked what relevance the missing body parts was, I told you
    Still doesn't sound like a good reason not to do a Cyborg film to me.

  4. #784
    The Nature Boy AnakinFlair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    Sometimes that stuff is made in advance before any filming.

    This would not be the first time a suit was made and not used in a film. Somewhere in the vault or at his house-Marlon Wayans's Robin costume is around. He says one was made for him.

    Also Star Trek Generations-the movie uniforms that never made it into the film beyond a few scenes with Laforge. If you notice especially with Laforge-they are all wearing Deep Space 9 uniforms.
    The movie uniforms can be found on the Generation toys. That were approved before filming started.

    I want to say another movie did this too but I can't name it. I want to say it was one of Predator movies.
    I seem to recall with the original Predator movie, didn't they cast Jean Claud Van Damn as the Predator, and have a completely different suit for him?

  5. #785
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnakinFlair View Post
    I think the suit did actually exist, and maybe they shot a publicity still of him in the black suit, and then were shut down by the studio.

    It IS a good looking suit. I wonder if we'll get a reason for him wearing it other than 'because it looks cool!'
    You'll get a reason,it is probably put on him in the Kryptonian ship before they revive him, Cyborg would be able to activate it if it is made of some nanite fabric..maybe he told his mother/Lois that he wanted to be buried in it
    Last edited by Rev9; 07-29-2020 at 04:52 AM.

  6. #786
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    Ray tweeted this at one point



    and to me, this sounds like Ray was still trying to act like he had some creative control and Whedon just shot him down and said "I don't care what you and Zack had worked out. You're doing what I say now."
    He did mention if he spoke out details he'd be sued out of existence..so maybe it was something enabled by the studio as he was under contract to finish the film

  7. #787
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev9 View Post
    He did mention if he spoke out details he'd be sued out of existence..so maybe it was something enabled by the studio as he was under contract to finish the film
    If what he's saying is that bad I don't know why Fisher didn't wait until he was fully prepared legally to expose all the dirty details at once. Instead it comes off as if the "abuse" is an afterthought and what we do know the most about is just being a jerk on set, which isn't illegal. It also comes off as hypocritical slamming Whedon for what Snyder himself is saying about Whedon in public. What really separates these two to Fisher?

    https://www.cbr.com/snyder-says-hed-...on-shot-scene/

    He even emphasized that he wouldn't have anything to do with the project if he wasn't guaranteed to have full creative control over it. "There would be no way -- I would rather, I would destroy the movie, I would set it on fire before I would use a single frame that I did not photograph," he stated. "That is f***ing hard fact."
    This is disappointing since Cyborg and Fisher were a highlight to me in the Justice League film, I want more of him in the DCEU but how this is going if Cyborg does come back I'm skeptical it'll be with Fisher in the role when he's burning bridges like this.

  8. #788
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    If what he's saying is that bad I don't know why Fisher didn't wait until he was fully prepared legally to expose all the dirty details at once. Instead it comes off as if the "abuse" is an afterthought and what we do know the most about is just being a jerk on set, which isn't illegal. It also comes off as hypocritical slamming Whedon for what Snyder himself is saying about Whedon in public. What really separates these two to Fisher?

    https://www.cbr.com/snyder-says-hed-...on-shot-scene/



    This is disappointing since Cyborg and Fisher were a highlight to me in the Justice League film, I want more of him in the DCEU but how this is going if Cyborg does come back I'm skeptical it'll be with Fisher in the role when he's burning bridges like this.
    How are you putting Snyder's statement about using his own original vision and filming style as something equivalent to Whedon? He spoke in strong terms because he spoke with the aftermath of his daughter's death which hurt him,the way he was treated.Any studio worth their salt would push the release date knowing ,he had shot the film and all he needed was post production yet they seized on the chance to ease him out using his daughter's death as pretext

  9. #789
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev9 View Post
    How are you putting Snyder's statement about using his own original vision and filming style as something equivalent to Whedon? He spoke in strong terms because he spoke with the aftermath of his daughter's death which hurt him,the way he was treated.Any studio worth their salt would push the release date knowing ,he had shot the film and all he needed was post production yet they seized on the chance to ease him out using his daughter's death as pretext
    Because he's acting like a spoilt child boiling with unfiltered emotions than a professional movie director. If it's the same sort of thing Fisher's complaining about Whedon this truly isn't about abuse, because those sort of comments aren't abuse, this is just about a proxy war between Team Whedon and Team Snyder Cut. I don't think a studio would let him off that easily, too much money was invested for that. Taking a few days or weeks off, maybe - but the Snyder family tragedy could have hurt Snyder for months or years, it'd be cruel of them to let him do that to himself. He'd need a therapist, and time with his family, not shooting a movie. They might have sped things up, post B vs S, but I think they knew the movie would have failed again with Snyder in that state and they're running a business with billions on the line.

  10. #790
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Because he's acting like a spoilt child boiling with unfiltered emotions than a professional movie director. If it's the same sort of thing Fisher's complaining about Whedon this truly isn't about abuse, because those sort of comments aren't abuse, this is just about a proxy war between Team Whedon and Team Snyder Cut. I don't think a studio would let him off that easily, too much money was invested for that. Taking a few days or weeks off, maybe - but the Snyder family tragedy could have hurt Snyder for months or years, it'd be cruel of them to let him do that to himself. He'd need a therapist, and time with his family, not shooting a movie. They might have sped things up, post B vs S, but I think they knew the movie would have failed again with Snyder in that state and they're running a business with billions on the line.
    I agree with the need to let him grieve and so push the release to 2018, the movie was done,there was no need to push him out. Thinking the movie would have failed has no basis in fact,MoS and BvS were critically panned but 2/3 of the audience reflect with favourable scores not to mention the first made over 600m the second almost 900m to assume JL would make 400m is absurd

  11. #791
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev9 View Post
    I agree with the need to let him grieve and so push the release to 2018, the movie was done,there was no need to push him out. Thinking the movie would have failed has no basis in fact,MoS and BvS were critically panned but 2/3 of the audience reflect with favourable scores not to mention the first made over 600m the second almost 900m to assume JL would make 400m is absurd
    Except the movie wasn't done, it wasn't in post-production. After Avengers occurred WB wanted that money, they've been chasing that since Green Lantern. Expectations were much higher, especially for a movie where Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman meet fo the first time. Hollywood studios are fickle and profit focused, and Snyder in that state was far more for a risk than Whedon was. The audience don't decide this, the studio heads do. They think Snyder's not up for the job, he's out. They thought he could do the job with Man of Steel and B vs S. Those movies may not be true failures, they don't have to be to not reach their standards to keep him on. That's why he's making the Snyder Cut on HBO rather then bringing him back to the movie side after Justice league finished.

  12. #792
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Except the movie wasn't done, it wasn't in post-production. After Avengers occurred WB wanted that money, they've been chasing that since Green Lantern. Expectations were much higher, especially for a movie where Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman meet fo the first time. Hollywood studios are fickle and profit focused, and Snyder in that state was far more for a risk than Whedon was. The audience don't decide this, the studio heads do. They think Snyder's not up for the job, he's out. They thought he could do the job with Man of Steel and B vs S. Those movies may not be true failures, they don't have to be to not reach their standards to keep him on. That's why he's making the Snyder Cut on HBO rather then bringing him back to the movie side after Justice league finished.
    That's wrong,I don't have the article on hand to prove but he finished filming the film in December 2016.Up until Autumn's death he was in post production.The film lacked VFX and score but the rest of connective stuff was finished.So that is not true,even Junkie said his soundtrack was more or less complete.The studio just wanted to re-do the film with a different director.Anyway no need to argue as in hindsight this was a blessing in disguise(the hiring of Whedon) because had Zack caved to compromises to reshoot the film,there would always be a tainted JL and his true vision would never see the light of day,this way we get to see exactly what he wanted

  13. #793
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev9 View Post
    I agree with the need to let him grieve and so push the release to 2018, the movie was done,there was no need to push him out. Thinking the movie would have failed has no basis in fact,MoS and BvS were critically panned but 2/3 of the audience reflect with favourable scores not to mention the first made over 600m the second almost 900m to assume JL would make 400m is absurd
    1/3 of your audience hating your movie isn't a good thing. Especially for a blockbuster. To be fair MoS atleast climbs up into 3/4 range. But to think BvS was well received overall is silly. It was far from a flop it made almost 170m opening weekend but didn't it have record drops the 2nd weekend? Worst Friday to Friday and tied for 2nd worst weekend drop by a CBM( Putting it in company with Origins of Wolverine and 2003s Hulk). When 1/3 of your audience absolutely hates something that bad word of mouth gonna play a factor. DC has had Aquaman and Wonder woman open way lower, Aquaman at less then half. Then finish with way higher domestic totals. Shit Suicide Squad opened 30m lower and almost tied BvS and that movie got dragged through the mud too. BvS performance for sure woulda had WBs worried. Not because it flopped( because it defiently didnt) but because of how quickly it died and the bad word of the mouth. When you have a sizeable chunk of the fanbase not respond well and box-office drop so harshly after a monster opening weekend.... you have to wonder how many people aren't gonna bother with the next film. And Justice League was proof that was the case. You can blame the quality of JL for why it died so quickly but the opening weekend was a fraction of BvS. You cant blame Wheedon for that. BvS turned off a chunk of that built in audience.

    To be fair i Iike Snyder, I rewatched MoS. There are someone head scratching choices with the movie but there is also some amazing stuff. All the action with Superman was great. I know hating him is cool now adays but the man can frame an action shot imo. He's never getting another crack at masterminding a DC universe. But I would love to see Him do something like The Question. Or better yet to really piss off the fan base let him do Moon Knight. That would never happen but it would be priceless to see the reaction. The DCEU die hards would be crushed seeing they're prophet work for the " Evil Empire". Then the MCU fan boys who live to shit on Snyder would now have to embrace him. Would be a sight to behold. In all seriousness if the Snyder cut does well and WBs lets him work on some DC stuff again. I'd like to see his Take on Question, Deathstroke, That Green Arrow Super Max film that was rolling around awhile back. Wouldn't have minded him taking on a solo Batman film either but yea Id rather see what Reeves does now.

  14. #794
    Fantastic Member Castle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Still doesn't sound like a good reason not to do a Cyborg film to me.
    I don't see DC doing a Cyborg film not before The Flash. DC is going to favour more loosely connected movies.

  15. #795
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midvillian1322 View Post
    1/3 of your audience hating your movie isn't a good thing. Especially for a blockbuster. To be fair MoS atleast climbs up into 3/4 range. But to think BvS was well received overall is silly. It was far from a flop it made almost 170m opening weekend but didn't it have record drops the 2nd weekend? Worst Friday to Friday and tied for 2nd worst weekend drop by a CBM( Putting it in company with Origins of Wolverine and 2003s Hulk). When 1/3 of your audience absolutely hates something that bad word of mouth gonna play a factor. DC has had Aquaman and Wonder woman open way lower, Aquaman at less then half. Then finish with way higher domestic totals. Shit Suicide Squad opened 30m lower and almost tied BvS and that movie got dragged through the mud too. BvS performance for sure woulda had WBs worried. Not because it flopped( because it defiently didnt) but because of how quickly it died and the bad word of the mouth. When you have a sizeable chunk of the fanbase not respond well and box-office drop so harshly after a monster opening weekend.... you have to wonder how many people aren't gonna bother with the next film. And Justice League was proof that was the case. You can blame the quality of JL for why it died so quickly but the opening weekend was a fraction of BvS. You cant blame Wheedon for that. BvS turned off a chunk of that built in audience.

    To be fair i Iike Snyder, I rewatched MoS. There are someone head scratching choices with the movie but there is also some amazing stuff. All the action with Superman was great. I know hating him is cool now adays but the man can frame an action shot imo. He's never getting another crack at masterminding a DC universe. But I would love to see Him do something like The Question. Or better yet to really piss off the fan base let him do Moon Knight. That would never happen but it would be priceless to see the reaction. The DCEU die hards would be crushed seeing they're prophet work for the " Evil Empire". Then the MCU fan boys who live to shit on Snyder would now have to embrace him. Would be a sight to behold. In all seriousness if the Snyder cut does well and WBs lets him work on some DC stuff again. I'd like to see his Take on Question, Deathstroke, That Green Arrow Super Max film that was rolling around awhile back. Wouldn't have minded him taking on a solo Batman film either but yea Id rather see what Reeves does now.
    I was not speaking as a studio exec after the bottom line,but even for them the trajectory was upward.The scrutiny MoS and BvS got was about the same.Logically you would expect on the criticism MoS got, for BvS to have made about the same amount of money as MoS. Yet BvS made much more for about the same budget and marketing.To say people went to see only Batman full well knowing Zack had directed MoS and had a particular take on Superman is tenuous ,sure it helped as did WW but it is logical to presume Batman alone did not bump the viewership.

    A counter argument could be made that many of those who went to see the film,did so precisely because they enjoyed the Superman in MoS and wanted to see how it is that he gets to antagonise the Batman

    With that trajectory especially after WW and Batman were praised in BvS means even to execs JL looked a good bet at upwards of a Billion haul.I actually believe though it's moot at this point that had Zack not stepped away and got to finish his version JL would have made in excess of a billion ,hiring Whedon put off many Snyder mythos fans,many openly say they did not watch the film in cinemas once Whedon was announced as collaborating

    On the other things you say I agree ,Zack has proven to have fervent fan support.He would not be able to release ZSJL if not for fans clamouring for it,and I don't think all these fans are exclusively comic book geeks because he did try to make his movie speak or echo more than just comic lore,that is undeniable.

    As for his future, if ZSJL does well it is entirely possible he can do either MoS2 or Justice League2 .The best movie that fits his style and ethos is actually Justice League Dark.He should be given the reins on that one
    Last edited by Rev9; 07-31-2020 at 08:49 AM.

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