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  1. #916
    Astonishing Member Coal Tiger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    Most of the xmen movies were practical effects or more grounded cgi because many xmen directors favoured a more grounded looking comic films . I can tell you something for sure, you cant watch DOFP and come the conclusion its a theme park movie. You can with Thanos.
    Well I can't watch DoFP at all because a child rapist made it, but by all means, keep singing it's praises.



    Nope. its not a lie.

    In photography there is a reason why many photographers can get angry at a model when she is late because he is loosing the natural daylight. They always stress about taking advantage of day shots. Night time is harder because the CGI can easily get over shadowed in the night scenes and the directors has to do more to make it stand out in the night.

    Day Time is easier.

    Only talented people like Snyder or Cameron or Nolan can truly pull of night times.
    You have no idea what you are talking about. You've clearly never taken part in any sort of artistic endeavor.

  2. #917
    Fantastic Member Castle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coal Tiger View Post
    Well I can't watch DoFP at all because a child rapist made it, but by all means, keep singing it's praises.


    Singer being a rapist does not change anything about the artistic part of the movie.
    You have no idea what you are talking about. You've clearly never taken part in any sort of artistic endeavor.
    Except I was pretty clear on what I was talking and I have a good amount of artistic endeavour.

    The first 3 spiderman movies final fights took place in the night. they are still the best spiderman films to date. The list can go on with Batman Begins, The Dark Knight, Batman Returns.

    Snyder made it clear he was going for a darker gritter show and night scenes play a huge part to that.

  3. #918
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    I really disliked the whole look of Doomsday in DOJ. I find the MCU movies to have much more realistic lighting and characters than the DCU. The whole battle at the end of JL did not feel like it was in the real world. Superman carrying the apt building to safety was almost laughable.


    I feel like we are in an episode of Netflix's Dark and Castle is on an alternate world.
    Superman carrying the building was all Whedon, the whole battle in Russia and the joke on heroics btn Flash and Supes was Whedon. We are yet to see Snyder's JL and his final showdown.

  4. #919
    Wonder Moderator Gaelforce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    Singer being a rapist does not change anything about the artistic part of the movie.


    Except I was pretty clear on what I was talking and I have a good amount of artistic endeavour.

    The first 3 spiderman movies final fights took place in the night. they are still the best spiderman films to date. The list can go on with Batman Begins, The Dark Knight, Batman Returns.

    Snyder made it clear he was going for a darker gritter show and night scenes play a huge part to that.
    There is a huge difference between capturing the beauty of a model in full daylight and crafting a CGI monster on a computer. I was a photographer's assistant and amateur photographer for years, and they don't want to 'waste the daylight' because artificial light sources produce sharper shadows and is much harder to use to capture the natural skin tones, hair color, make-up and shadows of the subject.

    Once the sun shifts, the shadows shift along with it, which can ruin an entire shoot depending upon how it's laid out.

    It is far easier to do CGI at night for the simple reason that you don't have to match the natural lighting and shadows. Dark shots are *much* easier to blend with with computer graphics than it is in full daytime. You can hide mistakes in the shadows, but CGI mistakes in a well-lit scene stand out like a sore thumb.

  5. #920
    Chad Jar Jar Pinsir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    It gets more scrutiny because it's perceived as a failure, financially and critically. This isn't occurring to DCEU movies like Aquaman or Wonder Woman.
    Except it objectively isn't a financial failure, at a minimum it made more than 3 times its budget. Yeah, Aquaman and Wonder Woman don't receive this kind of criticism, because a lot of people operate along the principle that a large box office reflects the quality of the film. Some people really dislike Zack Snyder's Superman films and so they have relentlessly attacked the box office results of these films for almost a decade now, because then they can 'objectively' prove MoS and BvS are bad.

    The context is that Avengers came out 4 years before B vs S, so being businessmen they'd raise their expectations financially and adoration. B vs S did make loads of money, true, but not as much money as it could have been in the atmosphere it was in.

    https://www.businessinsider.com/batm...diction-2016-3
    a) This isn't a studio executive saying the film under performed. It's not even a projection or a prediction either, its just somebody trying to thread one number to another.
    b) The article's claim that BvS needs to hit this number to 'play in Disney's sandbox' has been proven false. DC films have been thriving and are continuing to expand.
    c) The article doesn't mention China in the context of them being the primary reason for the growth of billion dollar films. Maybe in 2016 this wasn't so obvious, but in 2020, it is. The reason why Aquaman did so well is because that film strongly appealed to the Chinese audience. A film like BvS was never going to attract this market.
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  6. #921
    Fantastic Member Wandering_Wand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev9 View Post
    Superman carrying the building was all Whedon, the whole battle in Russia and the joke on heroics btn Flash and Supes was Whedon. We are yet to see Snyder's JL and his final showdown.
    I want to call something else out that has been a common complaint about Whedon's JL: the League was nerfed vs. Steppenwolf until Supes got there.
    I've seen a lot of people all over the Internet make comments to the effect of "I'm not watching ZSJL if it doesn't offer a powered up League besides Superman."

    Well, no need to worry there because we'll see a much different fight than in the theatrical release...


    And Jesus, people, some of you are still on about BvS and whether it was a failure or not? It was a critical failure and a financial disappointment (not a failure). It made a profit financially but obviously didn't make as much as it coulda/woulda/shoulda. I hate to be that guy, but that's all there is to sum up BvS's theater run.

  7. #922
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    Except it objectively isn't a financial failure, at a minimum it made more than 3 times its budget. Yeah, Aquaman and Wonder Woman don't receive this kind of criticism, because a lot of people operate along the principle that a large box office reflects the quality of the film. Some people really dislike Zack Snyder's Superman films and so they have relentlessly attacked the box office results of these films for almost a decade now, because then they can 'objectively' prove MoS and BvS are bad.
    I said it was perceived as a financial failure, not that it was one. A movie can be well at the box office but still be a failure with expectations being too high. At the time it was released Avengers was 4 year old, that was the high bar to clear and unlike Man of Steel it had higher expectations since it was billed as mini-Avengers. Superman and Batman fighting and teaming up with Woman Woman aren't things which have low financial expectations. Low, as in, before Avengers. The reason those films aren't scrutinised as much is that they're not as controversial as films, they exceeded expectations and they were liked by everyone. Those films weren't liked simply because they were popular and people had to like the popular thing. People who disliked Snyder's films did so for many, many reason which have nothing to do with box office. Man of Steel isn't seen as a financial bomb, it was loathed for its story. People use box office results for every movie, Snyder's Superman films aren't special.

    a) This isn't a studio executive saying the film under performed. It's not even a projection or a prediction either, its just somebody trying to thread one number to another.
    b) The article's claim that BvS needs to hit this number to 'play in Disney's sandbox' has been proven false. DC films have been thriving and are continuing to expand.
    c) The article doesn't mention China in the context of them being the primary reason for the growth of billion dollar films. Maybe in 2016 this wasn't so obvious, but in 2020, it is. The reason why Aquaman did so well is because that film strongly appealed to the Chinese audience. A film like BvS was never going to attract this market.
    a) True.
    b) The article was about B vs S specifically, and "Disney sandbox" being making a billion dollars. Which it didn't do.
    c) In that case WB sent that film out to die, because they were never going to be happy with what they got after Avengers.

    For B vs S context once that was released people lost their jobs over it and WB restructured its movie division over it. Corporations don't do this unless something really bad happened.

    https://deadline.com/2016/05/dc-film...rg-1201758630/

    Deadline has confirmed a major reorganization at Warner Bros regarding the approach to the still-building film series based on its DC Comics properties. Warner Bros declined comment, but sources with knowledge of the reorganization have confirmed that DC chief content officer Geoff Johns, who helped establish the brand’s presence on television, and WB EVP Jon Berg will now co-run DC Films. While DC Films has long been a production banner within Warner Bros, it will now exist as a formal division as the studio seeks a course correction after the mixed response to Batman V. Superman: Dawn Of Justice earlier this year.
    They lost Affleck over this, and Cavill's been in limbo ever since. The only actor from the trio who wasn't tarnished by B vs S was Gal Gadot. Snyder's been feeling the affects of B vs S to this day, this didn't start with Justice League.
    Last edited by Steel Inquisitor; 08-11-2020 at 10:49 PM.

  8. #923
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    I don't need to, I have seen both movies, more than once. I don't agree with your judgement in any way.

    But since you insist on "objectivity".

    Thanos all blurry
    He looks almost like the Predator in full stealth mode^^

  9. #924
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    Here is a better shot at the video to how clear we saw it in cinema.



    Doomsday look clearer, even though he has a more monstrous less human face than Thanos, dawn of justice is also helped far better with the cinematography of the movie. With Snyder films his cinematography elevates his VFX cannot say the same for Thanos, especially in Endgame and IW.

    Please remember Thanos was mostly daylight. all the battles took place in the morning or afternoon. Doomsday was night scenes which is harder to pull off and Snyder pulled it off.
    As said doing CGI during nightscenes is easier, because you can hide a lot in the shadows. Pretty selfexplaining actually. Changing goalposts as usual I see

  10. #925
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    Most of the xmen movies were practical effects or more grounded cgi because many xmen directors favoured a more grounded looking comic films . Thanos is not meant to be in a grounded looking comic film so he has the basic CGI that has more to do with action figures.



    Nope. its not a lie.

    In photography there is a reason why many photographers can get angry at a model when she is late because he is loosing the natural daylight. They always stress about taking advantage of day shots. Night time is harder because the CGI can easily get over shadowed in the night scenes and the directors has to do more to make it stand out in the night.

    Day Time is easier.

    Only talented people like Snyder or Cameron or Nolan can truly pull of night times because they challenge themselves as film makers and are allowed to. Whedon was just following a formula.
    I don't know if your "arguments" are funny or just sad.
    And the argument, that a photographer wants to use daylight is not really something that helps your "Daytime is easier" argument.

    As Gaelforce said a lot better than I could.

  11. #926
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    I said it was perceived as a financial failure, not that it was one. A movie can be well at the box office but still be a failure with expectations being too high. At the time it was released Avengers was 4 year old, that was the high bar to clear and unlike Man of Steel it had higher expectations since it was billed as mini-Avengers. Superman and Batman fighting and teaming up with Woman Woman aren't things which have low financial expectations. Low, as in, before Avengers. The reason those films aren't scrutinised as much is that they're not as controversial as films, they exceeded expectations and they were liked by everyone. Those films weren't liked simply because they were popular and people had to like the popular thing. People who disliked Snyder's films did so for many, many reason which have nothing to do with box office. Man of Steel isn't seen as a financial bomb, it was loathed for its story. People use box office results for every movie, Snyder's Superman films aren't special.



    a) True.
    b) The article was about B vs S specifically, and "Disney sandbox" being making a billion dollars. Which it didn't do.
    c) In that case WB sent that film out to die, because they were never going to be happy with what they got after Avengers.

    For B vs S context once that was released people lost their jobs over it and WB restructured its movie division over it. Corporations don't do this unless something really bad happened.

    https://deadline.com/2016/05/dc-film...rg-1201758630/



    They lost Affleck over this, and Cavill's been in limbo ever since. The only actor from the trio who wasn't tarnished by B vs S was Gal Gadot. Snyder's been feeling the affects of B vs S to this day, this didn't start with Justice League.


    'For B vs S context once that was released people lost their jobs over it and WB restructured its movie division over it. Corporations don't do this unless something really bad happened.'..'They lost Affleck over this'


    If they lost Affleck over BvS we would not have him coming back to do ZSJL! Zack cast Ben in the role where did the idea that BvS criticism made Ben throw in the towel come from? When not only did he do JL but came back for ZSJL after stepping down from solo film of Batman.He was fully onboard for BvS.You can't claim he left because of BvS when in fact there is now talk that he dropped the solo film because of WB interference and Geoff.If all these claims were true Geoff would still be overseeing DCEU

    Also your claim below help me understand where opinion stops and fact starts..

    'People who disliked Snyder's films did so for many, many reason which have nothing to do with box office. Man of Steel isn't seen as a financial bomb, it was loathed for its story. '

    You comment of those people who didn't like Snyder films they did so for various reasons. Ok that is rational fact ,MoS was not a financial bomb also fact and MoS was loathed for its story ...

    a) is the last part a truth claim or an opinion of yours?
    b) are you trying to follow two facts with an opinion in the hope it becomes fact?
    Last edited by Rev9; 08-12-2020 at 08:05 AM.

  12. #927
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Where is there talk that Affleck left because of Johns and WB interference? I thought it was pretty much an open secret he left due to his mental health and recent divorce being a bad combo with directing and starring in a solo Batman film (a physically demanding role).

    I don't think he dropped out solely due to BvS as he seems to have been more on board with JL under Snyder than Whedon, but "Sad Affleck" meme happened for a reason. He was clearly not thrilled with being tied to another critically lashed superhero movie, and he was contractually obligated to show up in Snyder's JL no matter what.

  13. #928
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Where is there talk that Affleck left because of Johns and WB interference? I thought it was pretty much an open secret he left due to his mental health and recent divorce being a bad combo with directing and starring in a solo Batman film (a physically demanding role).

    I don't think he dropped out solely due to BvS as he seems to have been more on board with JL under Snyder than Whedon, but "Sad Affleck" meme happened for a reason. He was clearly not thrilled with being tied to another critically lashed superhero movie, and he was contractually obligated to show up in Snyder's JL no matter what.
    Yea this ^^^

    He had issues already and then the hate throw at BVS must have compounded them. He said playing Batman was gonna kill him because of the stress and the amount is was driving him to drink. If BvS would have been well recieved it might have been a different story. But yea i never heard of Johns and Wb interference being an issue for him. Maybe with that Script he wrote for Batman but iono.

  14. #929
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Where is there talk that Affleck left because of Johns and WB interference? I thought it was pretty much an open secret he left due to his mental health and recent divorce being a bad combo with directing and starring in a solo Batman film (a physically demanding role).

    I don't think he dropped out solely due to BvS as he seems to have been more on board with JL under Snyder than Whedon, but "Sad Affleck" meme happened for a reason. He was clearly not thrilled with being tied to another critically lashed superhero movie, and he was contractually obligated to show up in Snyder's JL no matter what.
    This is what I read too.

    It just sounded like Affleck didn’t need the stress and negative energy at that point in time.

    BvS and JLs reception was clearly something he wasn’t prepared for.
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  15. #930
    Fantastic Member Castle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wandering_Wand View Post
    I want to call something else out that has been a common complaint about Whedon's JL: the League was nerfed vs. Steppenwolf until Supes got there.
    I've seen a lot of people all over the Internet make comments to the effect of "I'm not watching ZSJL if it doesn't offer a powered up League besides Superman."

    Well, no need to worry there because we'll see a much different fight than in the theatrical release...


    And Jesus, people, some of you are still on about BvS and whether it was a failure or not? It was a critical failure and a financial disappointment (not a failure). It made a profit financially but obviously didn't make as much as it coulda/woulda/shoulda. I hate to be that guy, but that's all there is to sum up BvS's theater run.
    BvS is a movie that will be viewed better with time, its already happening. people already admit the hate train of the film was over the top.

    The only thing Whedon did that was passable with JL was showing how powerful Superman really was. the rest can be nixed in the bin. I am taking it seriously Snyder would not be using any of Whedon's footage.

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