Zack Snyder's JUSTICE LEAGUE on HBOmax in 2021!

[XPac]

Comic Avengers could be gritty like Justice League.The movies can't because of Disney's censorship.

Flash Point was gritty.

You can argue the reverse ended up being true. Avengers went grittier with End Game, while Justice League ended up getting less gritty.

[Castle]

You can argue the reverse ended up being true. Avengers went grittier with End Game, while Justice League ended up getting less gritty.

What part of Avengers did you feel was gritty? what is even grit to you or me? for me, sometimes it is more than violent fight scenes.

[XPac]

What part of Avengers did you feel was gritty? what is even grit to you or me? for me, sometimes it is more than violent fight scenes.

I'd argue the Avengers having to deal with the death of half the universe was on the gritty side. Grittier than the Justice League ended up being by my estimation.

[lowfyr]

What part of Avengers did you feel was gritty? what is even grit to you or me? for me, sometimes it is more than violent fight scenes.

So Infinity War should be gritty by your own definition. Or does your usual MCU bias stand in the way of that?

[Castle]

I'd argue the Avengers having to deal with the death of half the universe was on the gritty side. Grittier than the Justice League ended up being by my estimation.

If I call this grit then Flash Point is hard grit because although avengers dealt with half of the universe gone, it still had some bright spots. a lot of the avengers still carried on with their nomal lives and used it as an opportunity to do things like Tony having a kid or Hulk becoming a teacher. the whole world did not become some dark isolated place. Justice League Flash Point became that, not even Superman managed to maintain his Hope message figure. Minor characters like Martha Wayne became the Joker from the truama of lossing her son. it was messed up.

If I was a person, I would have chosen to live in the endgame world than in the flash point world. flash point was a much darker circumstances.

Obviously Snyder is not adapting flashpoint but justice league has pushed the gritter limits. I wish people can just look at that than always trying to say, oh, its DC Avengers so they have to be the same.

We can at least agree, JL has the edge with grit that concerns violence.

[WebLurker]

I mean tone. The old cartoon adapted many JL stories that makes Snyder's experience as the watchmen director a better fit than Whedon's Avengers.

"Flash and Substance." That is all.

What part of Avengers did you feel was gritty? what is even grit to you or me? for me, sometimes it is more than violent fight scenes.

Cap's support group scene? Him and Black Widow talking about how people like them never move on? Iron Man not wanting to rejoin because he's found a new life and purpose? The fate of past Nebula?

(Heck, come to think of it, the humor-filled, candy-colored, comic-booky and proud of it Avengers: Endgame was a more mature story then the grimdark, brutal violent BvS was. Weird, ain't it?)

[Castle]

"Flash and Substance." That is all.

This one is on Whedon. Man of Steel has shown Snyder is more capable of that.
Cap's support group scene? Him and Black Widow talking about how people like them never move on? Iron Man not wanting to rejoin because he's found a new life and purpose? The fate of past Nebula?

Endgame did provide some stability to most of the characters. Flash Point had no stability.

(Heck, come to think of it, the humor-filled, candy-colored, comic-booky and proud of it Avengers: Endgame was a more mature story then the grimdark, brutal violent BvS was. Weird, ain't it?)

Not with Thor. I think BvS theme plot line of God among us is a more mature topic than the plot of Endgame. Superman struggling to balance his godlike powers and humanity.

The Batman v Superman fight in BvS appeals more to a different audience than the final fight in Endgame. The humor-filled, candy-colored, comic-booky thing is immaturity.

[lowfyr]

Endgame did provide some stability to most of the characters. Flash Point had no stability.



Not with Thor. I think BvS theme plot line of God among us is a more mature topic than the plot of Endgame. Superman struggling to balance his godlike powers and humanity.

The Batman v Superman fight in BvS appeals more to a different audience than the final fight in Endgame. The humor-filled, candy-colored, comic-booky thing is immaturity.

In your opinion perhaps. And the " humor-filled, candy-colored, comic-booky thing is immaturity" stuff did a better job showing a serious and thrilling fight then the ones vs. Doomsday or Steppenwolf. And regarding the last one I would be surprised that gets better with the Snyder Cut.

[Steel Inquisitor]

Endgame did provide some stability to most of the characters. Flash Point had no stability.

The world was damaged on a large scale with the event, people were still picking up the pieces five years later. Thor was a wreck by that point. DCEU Superman hasn't been that down in the movies. Which Flashpoint?

Not with Thor. I think BvS theme plot line of God among us is a more mature topic than the plot of Endgame. Superman struggling to balance his godlike powers and humanity.

B vs S didn't really do anything noteworthy with that theme. The media montage ended with a fizzle and the court scene blew up before it got started. We never truly got any insightful struggle Superman had with his godhood. All he did was pout a lot.

The Batman v Superman fight in BvS appeals more to a different audience than the final fight in Endgame. The humor-filled, candy-colored, comic-booky thing is immaturity.

Their fight had Batman break a toilet on Superman's head.

There's no humor here.

[Midvillian1322]

So mature story telling means everyone's life is shitty like Flashpoint? I like Flashpoint alot actually but its not close to the same thing as a JL or Avengers movie. Its a one off that gets tied up nice and neat when flash fixes everything. Old Man Logan is the same kinda shitty world its alot less mature then alot of Marvels more PG story telling.

[XPac]

If I call this grit then Flash Point is hard grit because although avengers dealt with half of the universe gone, it still had some bright spots. a lot of the avengers still carried on with their nomal lives and used it as an opportunity to do things like Tony having a kid or Hulk becoming a teacher. the whole world did not become some dark isolated place. Justice League Flash Point became that, not even Superman managed to maintain his Hope message figure. Minor characters like Martha Wayne became the Joker from the truama of lossing her son. it was messed up.

If I was a person, I would have chosen to live in the endgame world than in the flash point world. flash point was a much darker circumstances.

Obviously Snyder is not adapting flashpoint but justice league has pushed the gritter limits. I wish people can just look at that than always trying to say, oh, its DC Avengers so they have to be the same.

We can at least agree, JL has the edge with grit that concerns violence.

I can't judge Flash Point yet because it's not out yet (unless you're counting the comic or the cartoon). But I think it's very possible that the Flash Point movie will be gritty... though I also think it will have some bright spots and humor since the movie Flash is a fairly commical character. Again, haven't seen the movie yet because it's not out yet... we'll see.

Point being both in theory can have grittiness. Inherently I don't think the JL and Avengers is really that different yet.

[Wandering_Wand]

The world was damaged on a large scale with the event, people were still picking up the pieces five years later. Thor was a wreck by that point. DCEU Superman hasn't been that down in the movies. Which Flashpoint?



B vs S didn't really do anything noteworthy with that theme. The media montage ended with a fizzle and the court scene blew up before it got started. We never truly got any insightful struggle Superman had with his godhood. All he did was pout a lot.



Their fight had Batman break a toilet on Superman's head.

There's no humor here.

It was a sink... and they were in an old bathroom it appears, so yea, that would likely be part of the environment.

[SiegePerilous02]

JL has the conception of Avengers but their stories are gritter that puts it between Xmen and Watchmen.

The very first JL story begins with Aquaman swimming with his friend "Peter the Puffer Fish" and joining the JL against an invasion from mind controlling starfish aliens. With Snapper Carr as their sidekick.

The JL are not a gritty team. Stuff like Flashpoint (which arguably isn't a very mature story despite having darkness and gore in it) are outliers. And the JL cartoon, as dark as it could get, was nowhere near anything Snyder would make.

[Rev9]

I'd argue the Avengers having to deal with the death of half the universe was on the gritty side. Grittier than the Justice League ended up being by my estimation.

I'd argue the Avengers having to deal with the death of half the universe was on the gritty side. Grittier than the Justice League ended up being by my estimation.

That is disingenuous ,only Thor actually dealt with the tragedy and Hawkeye, they didn't cope well for sure but they gave the event the gravitas it deserves BUT even that is superficial because we know Thor's losses preceded the snap, remember the ...My sister took my eye, and I've lost my brother, father and best friends (not verbatim ofcourse) and what does Quill say? Well it's not a competition but my father killed my mother and I killed my father while almost breaking into laughter.That is Marvel for you, to top it all off ALL the deaths save Natasha's are moot ,everyone is back so all that grief was all phoney.Only Natasha and IM bite the dust and how are they remembered?

Feige does not know how to deal with grief , S.witch shows more pain about a Robot blowing up, than about her brother dying.It's ridiculous ,absolutely ridiculous

[XPac]

That is disingenuous ,only Thor actually dealt with the tragedy and Hawkeye, they didn't cope well for sure but they gave the event the gravitas it deserves BUT even that is superficial because we know Thor's losses preceded the snap, remember the ...My sister took my eye, and I've lost my brother, father and best friends (not verbatim ofcourse) and what does Quill say? Well it's not a competition but my father killed my mother and I killed my father while almost breaking into laughter.That is Marvel for you, to top it all off ALL the deaths save Natasha's are moot ,everyone is back so all that grief was all phoney.Only Natasha and IM bite the dust and how are they remembered?

Feige does not know how to deal with grief , S.witch shows more pain about a Robot blowing up, than about her brother dying.It's ridiculous ,absolutely ridiculous

I'd argue Tony's death wasn't moot.

But yes, doesn't go Watchman with their movies. There's grit there, but they manage to keep some fairly bright elements as well. I'm merely arguing that it went a darker route than the Justice League movie ended up going... so I don't think you can necessarily argue the Justice League is inherently grittier. It can be in theory... it just depends. The groups aren't really all that different in that regard.