Zack Snyder's JUSTICE LEAGUE on HBOmax in 2021!

[Blind Wedjat]

I think there's a whole lot of ridiculous mythologizing going on here with Snyder as the noble hero and Whedon (of all people) as the ruthless villain. That kind of pressure possibly did bring out the worst in Whedon but the idea that there's this masterpiece hiding beneath the surface of Whedon's cut of the film is as hilarious to me as ever. I'll watch it out of curiosity but Snyder's a hack who already screwed up 2 DC movies and somehow feels that 4 hours is an acceptable amount of time for a popcorn blockbuster. Does all this sound like the Snyder cut is going to be the Citizen Kane of superhero movies? Give me a break.

This is exactly what I think it is too. I honestly don't think Whedon wrote an entirely new story for a movie he didn't want to make. Plus I doubt he had enough time to even do that. I think what he did was change the dialogue to change the tone, remove he thought was unnecessary to shorten the runtime.

[Agent Z]

Yeah, I don't buy it. At all. The teaser didn't exactly make it look like a different movie and if Whedon did indeed completely remake the film from the ground up, don't you think it would be just a little bit more Whedon-y. How anyone can think Justice League was mostly the work of Joss Whedon, whose work on Buffy, Serenity and Avengers show a very particular authorial voice and style that is, a few quips aside, almost entirely absent here. There is, however, still plenty of Snyder all over the theatrical cut of JL. And this is before you get to the legalities of Snyder taking credit for a film that overwhelmingly wasn't his while Whedon didn't, if that is what happened, which, again, I don't think it is.

What probably changed the most was in the editing room. Whedon had orders to turn the film into something drastically different from what Snyder did but he only he had a couple of months to do it with the release date remaining pretty much unchanged. It makes much more sense that it was vastly recut with a few Whedon scenes thrown in to round it off than completely reshooting 90% of what had already been shot.

I think there's a whole lot of ridiculous mythologizing going on here with Snyder as the noble hero and Whedon (of all people) as the ruthless villain. That kind of pressure possibly did bring out the worst in Whedon but the idea that there's this masterpiece hiding beneath the surface of Whedon's cut of the film is as hilarious to me as ever. I'll watch it out of curiosity but Snyder's a hack who already screwed up 2 DC movies and somehow feels that 4 hours is an acceptable amount of time for a popcorn blockbuster. Does all this sound like the Snyder cut is going to be the Citizen Kane of superhero movies? Give me a break.

Not much difference from people who already label Snyder as a villain. Neither side is exactly being objective. Case in point with this comment.

[Rev9]

This is exactly what I think it is too. I honestly don't think Whedon wrote an entirely new story for a movie he didn't want to make. Plus I doubt he had enough time to even do that. I think what he did was change the dialogue to change the tone, remove he thought was unnecessary to shorten the runtime.

Not an entirely new story ,but there is reason to believe he re worked the Superman story completely, like why reshoot every single Cavill scene if you are just tweaking a little? To reshoot every Cavill scene pressuposes the story of Kal ,his resurrection is markedly different in the Zack cut

[basbash99]

Not much difference from people who already label Snyder as a villain. Neither side is exactly being objective. Case in point with this comment.

There's a world of difference between saying someone make a bad movie or is a hack vs saying they are toxic and abusive.

[SiegePerilous02]

Not much difference from people who already label Snyder as a villain. Neither side is exactly being objective. Case in point with this comment.

That post is not calling Snyder a villain.

[Vworp Vworp]

I think there's a whole lot of ridiculous mythologizing going on here with Snyder as the noble hero and Whedon (of all people) as the ruthless villain. That kind of pressure possibly did bring out the worst in Whedon but the idea that there's this masterpiece hiding beneath the surface of Whedon's cut of the film is as hilarious to me as ever. I'll watch it out of curiosity but Snyder's a hack who already screwed up 2 DC movies and somehow feels that 4 hours is an acceptable amount of time for a popcorn blockbuster. Does all this sound like the Snyder cut is going to be the Citizen Kane of superhero movies? Give me a break.

This.

I just don't get how people think Joss can have changed the whole movie so fundamentally.

DC: "Hey, Joss. We'd like you to come in and finish Zack's Justice League movie."

Joss: "OK, sure. But actually, I'd like to make a completely different movie and only use 10% of what you've already shot and paid millions and millions and millions of dollars for."

DC: "Yes, that's fine. How much money would you like?"

[SiegePerilous02]

A behind the scenes documentary for all of this would be more entertaining than any version of the movie could hope to be.

[XPac]

A behind the scenes documentary for all of this would be more entertaining than any version of the movie could hope to be.

That's what I suggested earlier. They can get a THIRD movie out of Justice League if they do some sort of behind the scenes documentary. We'll get our Justice League trilogy afterall.

[Midvillian1322]

I think its pretty simple. If you thought BvS was garbage your not gonna like Snyders cut of Justice league. If your one of the people who thought BvS was some masterpiece , your gonna love the Snyder cut no matter what it is.

But yea anyone who watches Justice League and thinks that look like a Whedon movie is lying to themselves. There are some jokes sprinkled throughout but a majority of that movie is Snyder. Visually its 100% Snyder. It's grey washed and moody. Whedon had to try to make something that Wbs wanted with the stuff Snyder left him. I'm willing to bet Whedon cutout way more of Snyders footage. Compared to what he got to reshoot and add. It was mostly done in the editing booth I bet outside of some fun and jokes sprinkled in there. But yea if your someone who thought the Ultimate cut of BvS made BvS alot better. Then this will probaly be for you. I personaly disliked it more. Yea it made a whole subplot make sense unlike the theatrical version. But it also made a movie that for me was slow and way too long..... even longer. Iono breaking this up into 4 1hr episodes was smart. Cause someone like me who disliked BVS wasn't gonna sit through 4hours of Snyders justice league. But I'll watch 1hr a week for 4weeks.

[Username taken]

Like I said earlier, the Snyder cut and the Whedon cut can't be too different on a plot level. Broadly speaking, they will be two different cuts of the same movie.

The whole JL production thing is just flat out bizarre and as others have pointed out would probably make for a very interesting film. When it's all said and done, WB itself just didn't seem to have a clear vision for the movie and they really should have delayed it.

People seem to forget that even Whedon's cut was truncated because WB insisted the movie come in at under 2 hours. Even more interesting was that WB brought in Whedon to make the movie in his style but WB still insisted he make the movie "darker". Case in point was the scene of Batman capturing the burglar at the beginning of the movie, Whedon had his own idea but the producers told him to keep it as serious as he could (according to actor Holt McCallany).

The stories behind the production are actually more interesting than the movie itself.

[Ilan Preskovsky]

Yeah, I really wasn't saying Snyder is the villain here nor Whedon the hero. The studio are the closest to being the villain but everyone involved are just people. I do think think that Snyder is a largely terrible filmmaker, while Whedon is largely great. What they're like as people, who knows? Whedon could be a total ******* and Snyder a saint or vice versa or neither. None of which is my point. My point is actually that the whole Whedon vs Snyder thing is silly - and it's not helped by Snyder publicly stoking the flames of this "rivalry". The theatrical version is the result of Whedon working for hire for WB in the same way that he has worked for studios for years as a script doctor. Justice League was never a Joss Whedon film, which is why he is not listed as director and little of his usual style is anywhere to be seen. He did what the studio asked him, no more no less. Snyder was, of course, victim to a horrible family tragedy and walked away from the film accordingly and understandably. Originally, it was assumed that Whedon was just brought in to finish off Snyder's work but it became increasingly clear that they weren't happy with the film regardless so they probably would have seriously changed it regardless of Whedon or even Snyder's involvement.

All of this is to say that that this isn't about a villain. What the studio did sucks but it's just a studio being a studio. Whedon may or may not have ruined the film but he did exactly the job that he was hired to do. Snyder may or may not have made a great film (I obviously think that's unlikely) but he was forced to abandon it because of personal circumstances out of his control. The result of all this is a mess, yes, but there's no real hero or villain here.

[Coal Tiger]

Even back when it was still firmly “a Zack Snyder film” WB really tried to reign him in when it came to tone. You could tell right from that initial trailer with the White Stripes song that it wasn’t as dark as BvS and there would be at least 2 humorous characters in Flash and Aquaman. I feel like even people who were expecting what they saw in BvS but more will be disappointed with the final product.

[Ilan Preskovsky]

Like I said earlier, the Snyder cut and the Whedon cut can't be too different on a plot level. Broadly speaking, they will be two different cuts of the same movie.

The whole JL production thing is just flat out bizarre and as others have pointed out would probably make for a very interesting film. When it's all said and done, WB itself just didn't seem to have a clear vision for the movie and they really should have delayed it.

People seem to forget that even Whedon's cut was truncated because WB insisted the movie come in at under 2 hours. Even more interesting was that WB brought in Whedon to make the movie in his style but WB still insisted he make the movie "darker". Case in point was the scene of Batman capturing the burglar at the beginning of the movie, Whedon had his own idea but the producers told him to keep it as serious as he could (according to actor Holt McCallany).

The stories behind the production are actually more interesting than the movie itself.

I mean, most things are more interesting than the movie itself but yeah, a doc about it would be pretty interesting.

[Steel Inquisitor]

I think its pretty simple. If you thought BvS was garbage your not gonna like Snyders cut of Justice league. If your one of the people who thought BvS was some masterpiece , your gonna love the Snyder cut no matter what it is.

But yea anyone who watches Justice League and thinks that look like a Whedon movie is lying to themselves. There are some jokes sprinkled throughout but a majority of that movie is Snyder. Visually its 100% Snyder. It's grey washed and moody. Whedon had to try to make something that Wbs wanted with the stuff Snyder left him. I'm willing to bet Whedon cutout way more of Snyders footage. Compared to what he got to reshoot and add. It was mostly done in the editing booth I bet outside of some fun and jokes sprinkled in there. But yea if your someone who thought the Ultimate cut of BvS made BvS alot better. Then this will probaly be for you. I personaly disliked it more. Yea it made a whole subplot make sense unlike the theatrical version. But it also made a movie that for me was slow and way too long..... even longer. Iono breaking this up into 4 1hr episodes was smart. Cause someone like me who disliked BVS wasn't gonna sit through 4hours of Snyders justice league. But I'll watch 1hr a week for 4weeks.

Whedon's able to make scene indistinguishable from Snyder himself, the "Somebody knows" sequence, can't say the same for Snyder.

[RockyHorror]

I might watch the final hour just to see how the story is resolved without making all but one member of the team look like bumbling fools.

But no, I don't really believe Snyder's cut will play that part out significantly differently. One thing you can't deny about Whedon Avengers, he gave every character a reason for being there. No way Whedon wrote that ending in JL.