Zack Snyder's JUSTICE LEAGUE on HBOmax in 2021!

[Powerboy]

Yeah, I don't buy it. At all. The teaser didn't exactly make it look like a different movie and if Whedon did indeed completely remake the film from the ground up, don't you think it would be just a little bit more Whedon-y. How anyone can think Justice League was mostly the work of Joss Whedon, whose work on Buffy, Serenity and Avengers show a very particular authorial voice and style that is, a few quips aside, almost entirely absent here. There is, however, still plenty of Snyder all over the theatrical cut of JL. And this is before you get to the legalities of Snyder taking credit for a film that overwhelmingly wasn't his while Whedon didn't, if that is what happened, which, again, I don't think it is.

What probably changed the most was in the editing room. Whedon had orders to turn the film into something drastically different from what Snyder did but he only he had a couple of months to do it with the release date remaining pretty much unchanged. It makes much more sense that it was vastly recut with a few Whedon scenes thrown in to round it off than completely reshooting 90% of what had already been shot.

I think there's a whole lot of ridiculous mythologizing going on here with Snyder as the noble hero and Whedon (of all people) as the ruthless villain. That kind of pressure possibly did bring out the worst in Whedon but the idea that there's this masterpiece hiding beneath the surface of Whedon's cut of the film is as hilarious to me as ever. I'll watch it out of curiosity but Snyder's a hack who already screwed up 2 DC movies and somehow feels that 4 hours is an acceptable amount of time for a popcorn blockbuster. Does all this sound like the Snyder cut is going to be the Citizen Kane of superhero movies? Give me a break.

The reality seems to be that the test audience reacted so negatively to JL, a sort of, "Three strikes. You're out. We're done with this franchise" attitude that WB panicked and felt something had to be done but with a relatively minimal budget. Since they rushed to get to JL way before they should have, they also rushed to salvage it. Bringing Whedon in was done specifically to change it, especially the overall emotional atmosphere of it. But no way were they remaking the whole movie.

The reality is probably that, if you loved MoS and B v S, you'll love the Snyder cut of JL. If you hated the previous two, you'll hate this. If you are in between, which I am, you'll probably think Snyder's JL is okay but nothing big.

I honestly want to see it if only to know which I think is better and which I like more. I suspect I'll think Snyder's version is better because it won't be disjointed. It will fit with Mos and B v S and even with itself. I may end up viscerally liking Whedon's version better.

[Comic-Reader Lad]

What was so great about the Whedon version?

[RockyHorror]

What was so great about the Whedon version?

You mean the Snyder version that Whedon reshot a few scenes for?

There was almost nothing good about the theatrical version. I doubt the TV version has much of a chance of being significantly better. I mean really...do you really want to watch the theatrical version times 2 with more un-fun?

[Ilan Preskovsky]

What was so great about the Whedon version?

Nothing. There is no Whedon version.

[Comic-Reader Lad]

You mean the Snyder version that Whedon reshot a few scenes for?

There was almost nothing good about the theatrical version. I doubt the TV version has much of a chance of being significantly better. I mean really...do you really want to watch the theatrical version times 2 with more un-fun?

What can I say? I LIKE Snyder's more serious take. I also think there was a deliberate point to the dark tone. It was all leading up to a confrontation with Darkseid, after all.

I don't expect the Snyder Cut to be full of laughs, one-liners, pop culture references, and goofy 70s music -- but I don't want that. That's everything I hate about today's movies.

I can only get into a movie if I can take it seriously -- unless it's supposed to be a parody or comedy. Contrived comedic bits shoehorned into a movie to check a box about what focus groups say audiences like is not my thing.

[Steel Inquisitor]

What was so great about the Whedon version?

Superman feels more like himself, he talks in the Justice League fight, the team act more like friends rather than gods, added more Wonder Woman scenes, the Russian family provided more grounding in the last act for the audience, the lighter colors made everything look sillier instead of being from a pretentious art film who took itself too seriously.

[Comic-Reader Lad]

Superman feels more like himself, he talks in the Justice League fight, the team act more like friends rather than gods, added more Wonder Woman scenes, the Russian family provided more grounding in the last act for the audience, the lighter colors made everything look sillier instead of being from a pretentious art film who took itself too seriously.

Most of what you cite as the "great" parts are the parts I didn't like about Whedon's version. I hope the Russian family doesn't exist at all in the Snyder Cut. Their inclusion felt jarring and weird to me.

Also, I'm pretty sure the booty shot of Gal Gadot was all Whedon's. We already know the "Do you bleed?" callback was Whedon's (surprise, surprise) and won't appear in the Snyder Cut. Since Snyder has said he won't use anything he didn't shoot himself, I'm confident we can say goodbye to Whedon's embarrassing objectification of Gadot's ass.

Also, "too seriously" is in the eye of the beholder. Like any DC Crisis story, I want high stakes, high drama, and yes, a high level of seriousness. I want the threat level of Darkseid to feel real and dangerous, not "sillier."

[XPac]

I think both Whedon and Snyder have opposide but similar issues. Whedon has a knack for making things jokey for the sake of being jokey, while Snyder has a knack for making things dark for the sake of making things dark. Whedon will write everyone like Spider-Man while Snyder will write everyone like Batman.

Maybe DC were hoping that by creating some sort of hybrid Justice League movie between the two they might be able to somehow balance each other out... but no such luck.

[SiegePerilous02]

Cavill as Superman as great in the Whedon cut. At least what very little we saw of him.

The CGI lips are a nightmare, but the "do you bleed?" line to a pants shitting Batman made it all worth it.

Movie was still a dumpster fire though, he wasn't enough to save it.

[Powerboy]

What was so great about the Whedon version?

In this case, it's grading on a curve. After M o S and B v S, I expected JL to be basically more of the same or one too many of the same. Instead I got a Superman who is powerful, confident, talks to people, jokes and is not living in a shell inside himself.

Was it really done very well? No. It was a last minute attempt at salvage. But, compared to what had led up to it, it was a visceral feeling that Cavill himself described so well when he said that, before JL, we had not seen him play the "real" Superman but that we would in JL. Of course, he was talking about Snyder's movie. I hope that it turns out that his JL has all the best qualities of the theatrical version and gives that feeling of Superman at last and in a better movie too.

I do hope there are things we don't get. I hope we don't get the camera panning up the front of WW's body or the "watch her walk" shots which were notable for not being there in her own movie. I hope any fight between WW and Superman seems far more equal. I hope we don't get the feeling that Superman is 99% of the League's power.

However, I do hope we get WW saving those people at the beginning of the movie. Had she failed, I would have been tempted to walk out. Three movies. One passable but very much against expectations. The middle one counting as two strikes. WW failing to save those people would have been Strike 3, an indication we were in for another B v S. If she succeeds there in the Snyder cut, great. If not, well, once I have the movie, I'll eventually finish it but it will be slow going if that happens differently than in the theatrical version.

So, I hope we get her succeeding there and that we get a Superman that feels like someone who would inspire hope and change.

[Powerboy]

Cavill as Superman as great in the Whedon cut. At least what very little we saw of him.

The CGI lips are a nightmare, but the "do you bleed?" line to a pants shitting Batman made it all worth it.

Movie was still a dumpster fire though, he wasn't enough to save it.

Exactly. Whedon's version gets Superman as best it can with the minimal amount of reshooting he could do. We get the power, the confidence and an actual personality. It would be great to see what Whedon could do making a Superman movie from the start instead of doing a few reshoots of a pre-existing script coming after two other movies and only having time to lighten things up.

Yes, the movie was still a disaster. Even Whedon of Buffy, Angel, Firefly and Avengers fame couldn't save this with a few reshoots. But I love your description. Batgod (not Batman but Post-Crisis and DKR Batgod) shitting his pants as Superman finally gets some respect and throws his own line back at him was worth it all. Especially since Superman could do it right there while Batgod could only take advantage of Superman being merciful for his threat to have any meaning. Best line in the whole movie. Totally don't see why anybody would think it's okay for Batgod to say it under stress but not for Superman to throw it back at him under stress.

[lowfyr]

I think both Whedon and Snyder have opposide but similar issues. Whedon has a knack for making things jokey for the sake of being jokey, while Snyder has a knack for making things dark for the sake of making things dark. Whedon will write everyone like Spider-Man while Snyder will write everyone like Batman.

Maybe DC were hoping that by creating some sort of hybrid Justice League movie between the two they might be able to somehow balance each other out... but no such luck.

I would say Snyder makes everyone look like Rohrschach. I think he never understood, that all dark and gritty all the time is not a thing that works.
I mean Nolan is able to use both and that makes the difference.

Will watch it, but if the rumours about the London hostage scene are true I will not watch it for long.

[Midvillian1322]

I would say Snyder makes everyone look like Rohrschach. I think he never understood, that all dark and gritty all the time is not a thing that works.
I mean Nolan is able to use both and that makes the difference.

Will watch it, but if the rumours about the London hostage scene are true I will not watch it for long.

What are these rumors? In Whedon WW used her super speed to save the day

[Steel Inquisitor]

Most of what you cite as the "great" parts are the parts I didn't like about Whedon's version. I hope the Russian family doesn't exist at all in the Snyder Cut. Their inclusion felt jarring and weird to me.

Whedon adds things in to his movies to show humanity in it, it highlights with the heres are fighting for and that the battlegrounds have stakes they're not just human shaped lamps we're not supposed to emotionally connect with. Snyder himself did this in Man of Steel in the Battle of Metropolis.

Also, I'm pretty sure the booty shot of Gal Gadot was all Whedon's. We already know the "Do you bleed?" callback was Whedon's (surprise, surprise) and won't appear in the Snyder Cut. Since Snyder has said he won't use anything he didn't shoot himself, I'm confident we can say goodbye to Whedon's embarrassing objectification of Gadot's ass.

The question was about the good parts in Whedon's League, not the bad. That was part of the bad. Snyder is worse with the objectification of female bodies than Whedon is. Sucker Punch and 300. Snyder put Lois in a bath tub for absolutely no reason in B vs S. I loathed Barry Allen in that movie.

Also, "too seriously" is in the eye of the beholder. Like any DC Crisis story, I want high stakes, high drama, and yes, a high level of seriousness. I want the threat level of Darkseid to feel real and dangerous, not "sillier."

Not really, the reason Snyder fans want Snyder back is because they loathe Whedon's tone. You can have all that while not being pretentious or depressing. Compare the two in how they utilise tones in the DCEU:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eInR2aqaTYI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrhK08pCqhk

Night and day in how they direct movies.

Rumor has it that Snyder's League (Part 1) will be the League losing hard. That Diana fails in stopping those terrorists, which is odd since they're just ordinary terrorists. Maybe Snyder will explain what their ideology is, because they were just confusing in Whedon's.

[Vworp Vworp]

Rumor has it that Snyder's League (Part 1) will be the League losing hard. That Diana fails in stopping those terrorists, which is odd since they're just ordinary terrorists.

So Snyder's version might nerf Diana even more than the original cut did?

And before someone jumps in saying the same thing we always hear when talking about how useless Justice League made Diana look, yes, I do know she supposedly deals the killing blow in Snyder's version. But that'll be worth diddly and squat unless she's also the one who actually renders (no pun intended) Steppenwolf vulnerable enough to be killed in the first place. If it's still a whole big fight of the league mostly getting their butts kicked and being ineffective until Supes comes in and blips him in three seconds, then giving Diana the token final slice is just pointless.