Zack Snyder's JUSTICE LEAGUE on HBOmax in 2021!

[Midvillian1322]

So Snyder's version might nerf Diana even more than the original cut did?

And before someone jumps in saying the same thing we always hear when talking about how useless Justice League made Diana look, yes, I do know she supposedly deals the killing blow in Snyder's version. But that'll be worth diddly and squat unless she's also the one who actually renders (no pun intended) Steppenwolf vulnerable enough to be killed in the first place. If it's still a whole big fight of the league mostly getting their butts kicked and being ineffective until Supes comes in and blips him in three seconds, then giving Diana the token final slice is just pointless.

That was one of the few things I liked. Superman felt like Superman. Yes from a story telling aspect it made the League redundant. But the feeling you got when he showed up and tide turned instantly was the first time I got legit superman vibes from the DCEU. Iono something that had a big effect on my taste for Superman was the animated JL shows. And when Superman supposedly dies Flash says something that always stuck with. I dont remember the exact quote but hes talking about he can't belive he's really gone. Then he says something like No matter what we were up against, as long as Superman was there we knew we had a chance. Again not an exact quote havent watched it in a long while. But that one bit of dialogue perfectly represented the hope superman inspired in everyone. Even other super heroes. What we got in Justice League was the closest thing to that for me. But yes from a story telling view it backs you into a corner and makes furure team up problematic. Don't think that's gonna be an issue anymore though.

[SiegePerilous02]

Superman should elicit that kind vibe/reaction. It's just been so long that you always get a backlash from fans when we get a reminder of how much of a big deal he is in terms of power compared to most everyone else. Considering Barry was still a rookie, and Batman, Aquaman and Cyborg are always outclassed by a full blown Superman, that power scale was where it should have been.

Wonder Woman was nerfed though when she shouldn't have been. Stuff like the headbutt and losing to him isn't a bad idea in theory, the issue is that she should have put in more of a showing before she went down. You can have her lose and still make her look good. If the only difference is she gets to cut of Steppenwolf's head but is otherwise the same, then...whatever. Especially if the hostages dies. I don't see any reason why that's necessary and is quite farcical after the events of BvS.

[Rev9]

So Snyder's version might nerf Diana even more than the original cut did?

And before someone jumps in saying the same thing we always hear when talking about how useless Justice League made Diana look, yes, I do know she supposedly deals the killing blow in Snyder's version. But that'll be worth diddly and squat unless she's also the one who actually renders (no pun intended) Steppenwolf vulnerable enough to be killed in the first place. If it's still a whole big fight of the league mostly getting their butts kicked and being ineffective until Supes comes in and blips him in three seconds, then giving Diana the token final slice is just pointless.

I don't think Snyder will ever give us a villain that Superman blitzes in 3 seconds , we have two film so far where Superman battles the villain for quite a while before subduing them. Snyder teased Flash will do something not seen before and many know in his script Flash gives the League a second chance after they fail to stop Steppenwolf the first time.I don't think WW will be nerfed ,I surmise she Kills Steppenwolf not because she bested him alone but more like in BvS Doomsday kill-because she had perhaps the most clear cut opportunity or seized the opportunity because the others were occupied doing something pretty key to give her that window of opportunity.

[Steel Inquisitor]

I don't think Snyder will ever give us a villain that Superman blitzes in 3 seconds , we have two film so far where Superman battles the villain for quite a while before subduing them. Snyder teased Flash will do something not seen before and many know in his script Flash gives the League a second chance after they fail to stop Steppenwolf the first time.I don't think WW will be nerfed ,I surmise she Kills Steppenwolf not because she bested him alone but more like in BvS Doomsday kill-because she had perhaps the most clear cut opportunity or seized the opportunity because the others were occupied doing something pretty key to give her that window of opportunity.

With how Snyder made her a glorified cameo in Batman vs Superman, and his problematic writing in Sucker Punch I'm not giving him the benefit of a doubt he's going to do a better job with her than Whedon did.

[XPac]

With how Snyder made her a glorified cameo in Batman vs Superman, and his problematic writing in Sucker Punch I'm not giving him the benefit of a doubt he's going to do a better job with her than Whedon did.

For better or worse, this will just be more of the same from Batman vs Superman. People who liked that will likely like his Snyder Cut. But all the people who didn't like it will likely dislike Justice League for the exact same reason. It's just more of the same.

I think the thing more than anything else which potentially will hurt the Snyder Cut is expectations. People are building this thing up to almost mythical preportions... it's practically an urban legend coming to life before our very eyes. And if people view it than anymore than another DC Snyder movie, they are likely setting themselves up for disappointment. Of course that largely only applies to people who didn't necessarily like BvS... those that did should be fine.

[Rev9]

With how Snyder made her a glorified cameo in Batman vs Superman, and his problematic writing in Sucker Punch I'm not giving him the benefit of a doubt he's going to do a better job with her than Whedon did.

I don't think it was her movie to show anything more than he did.He introduced her pretty organically, mysterious woman mixing in powerful circles, pretty smart and ready to intervene when she deems necessary.I find her introduction was done waaay better than Spidey in Civil War;now that was just bizarre.

[XPac]

I don't think it was her movie to show anything more than he did.He introduced her pretty organically, mysterious woman mixing in powerful circles, pretty smart and ready to intervene when she deems necessary.I find her introduction was done waaay better than Spidey in Civil War;now that was just bizarre.

I'm going to partially agree that Wonder Womans inclusion was done well. It was enjoyable... she was honestly one of my favorite parts of the movie.

But I just found it weird that she supposedly has been operating since world war 1 and literally no one knows who she is. Even freaking Batman. The way they handled her didn't and STILL doesn't entirely make sense. So I think they lose points for that (maybe WW84 will somehow deal with that plot hole). Otherwise.. it was fun.

[Rev9]

I'm going to partially agree that Wonder Womans inclusion was done well. It was enjoyable... she was honestly one of my favorite parts of the movie.

But I just found it weird that she supposedly has been operating since world war 1 and literally no one knows who she is. Even freaking Batman. The way they handled her didn't and STILL doesn't entirely make sense. So I think they lose points for that (maybe WW84 will somehow deal with that plot hole). Otherwise.. it was fun.

I get where you are coming from ,and sure maybe W1984 will give us insight, but taking WW in BvS at her word, that she stepped away from Superheroics for the better part of a hundred years is a plausible explanation.As an immortal maybe living through the 20th century she saw humanity as a lost cause in the bigger picture ,her story of WW was crucial- she thought if Aries was destroyed Humanity would be at peace and all would be living in brotherhood and bliss.When that didn't happen I can imagine she stepped away from the world.WW 1984 may not be part of Snyder's continuity because she'd have no reason to get Steve's photo for herself for sentimental reasons if Steve was already alive (unless he died shortly before events of 2016 in which case her first photo of them together is still pretty special).If she did resurface during 1984,she would be on the radar of the World while Bruce was a young man.I admit Bruce definitely would have heard of her as a child as per WW1984 unless again something supernaturally erased her memory in people's consciousness( we are yet to know what happened to understand the mystery around her).

[Powerboy]

So Snyder's version might nerf Diana even more than the original cut did?

And before someone jumps in saying the same thing we always hear when talking about how useless Justice League made Diana look, yes, I do know she supposedly deals the killing blow in Snyder's version. But that'll be worth diddly and squat unless she's also the one who actually renders (no pun intended) Steppenwolf vulnerable enough to be killed in the first place. If it's still a whole big fight of the league mostly getting their butts kicked and being ineffective until Supes comes in and blips him in three seconds, then giving Diana the token final slice is just pointless.

Exactly. It's basically Superman buckling Steppenwolf's knees until he's out on his feet and then Superman stepping back and letting Diana throw the last punch at a guy who was about to drop anyway. It needs to be shown that the other League members can all hurt him but they need to work together to beat him. In JL, the impression was that Superman was so fast and powerful that Steppenwolf was more insignificant to him than the rest of the League was to Steppenwolf.

There was a visceral thrill to Superman being that powerful but it totally nerfs Diana. If she fails to rescue those people, that even more delivers the message that she and the League are nothing without Superman.

[Powerboy]

Superman should elicit that kind vibe/reaction. It's just been so long that you always get a backlash from fans when we get a reminder of how much of a big deal he is in terms of power compared to most everyone else. Considering Barry was still a rookie, and Batman, Aquaman and Cyborg are always outclassed by a full blown Superman, that power scale was where it should have been.

Wonder Woman was nerfed though when she shouldn't have been. Stuff like the headbutt and losing to him isn't a bad idea in theory, the issue is that she should have put in more of a showing before she went down. You can have her lose and still make her look good. If the only difference is she gets to cut of Steppenwolf's head but is otherwise the same, then...whatever. Especially if the hostages dies. I don't see any reason why that's necessary and is quite farcical after the events of BvS.

True that. It's been so long since we've seen the Superman some of us remember that to finally see him again makes a lot of people feel that he should be just one of the gang in terms of power because that's what he's been for so very long.

On the other hand, Wonder Woman should be his equal. Maybe not quite as strong or durable but maybe faster and definitely more skilled. There was nothing wrong with the literal headbutting contest but she should have realized that's not going to work and proven his equal by superior skills.

But, for those of us around in the Silver Age, to see him that powerful again was such a thrill I almost jumped out of my seat when he overpowered the whole League and singlehandedly stomped Steppenwolf or would have except that he side-tracked to save people which was yet another sign of the "real" Superman being back at last. That sort of thing was a classic Silver Age tactic. Create a situation where Superman or WW have to side-track so the rest of the League has a real fight on its hands.

I grant that isn't going to work in movies in the long term. But it was a thrill to see. Again, the only downer for me was I didn't like WW jobbing like that.

[Ilan Preskovsky]

Exactly. Whedon's version gets Superman as best it can with the minimal amount of reshooting he could do. We get the power, the confidence and an actual personality. It would be great to see what Whedon could do making a Superman movie from the start instead of doing a few reshoots of a pre-existing script coming after two other movies and only having time to lighten things up.

Yes, the movie was still a disaster. Even Whedon of Buffy, Angel, Firefly and Avengers fame couldn't save this with a few reshoots. But I love your description. Batgod (not Batman but Post-Crisis and DKR Batgod) shitting his pants as Superman finally gets some respect and throws his own line back at him was worth it all. Especially since Superman could do it right there while Batgod could only take advantage of Superman being merciful for his threat to have any meaning. Best line in the whole movie. Totally don't see why anybody would think it's okay for Batgod to say it under stress but not for Superman to throw it back at him under stress.

Yeah, the fact that Superman in Justice League didn't make me want to hurl things at the screen is the reason why I like it more than either BVS or Man of Steel, despite being a much worse film.

Not really, the reason Snyder fans want Snyder back is because they loathe Whedon's tone. You can have all that while not being pretentious or depressing. Compare the two in how they utilise tones in the DCEU:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eInR2aqaTYI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrhK08pCqhk

Night and day in how they direct movies.

Rumor has it that Snyder's League (Part 1) will be the League losing hard. That Diana fails in stopping those terrorists, which is odd since they're just ordinary terrorists. Maybe Snyder will explain what their ideology is, because they were just confusing in Whedon's.

Except that horrible Justice League clip is not in Whedon's style. Like, at all. It looks like what it is, a first draft of a Snyder film with jokey dialogue thrown in to make it, I don't know, "lighter"?

You know, for all of the supposed "darkness" of Snyder's DCEU, holy hell, do those costumes look naff! The comics-faithful costumes in the MCU look cool but these more "realistic" costumes just look so silly for a pretty simple reason: The self-seriousness of these things don't make the ridiculous (which is always a part of the superhero genre) look realistic, it just makes them look all the more ridiculous. Along with not getting Superman to a level that no one has not gotten Superman, Snyder's worst crime with these films is exactly that they have no sense of humour about themselves whatsoever. They're not just lame but embarrassingly lame in a way that even the slightest of the MCU films simply aren't.

Also, bloody hell, I forgot just how shonky the CGI was in Justice League. Show that clip to someone who knew nothing about these films and ask them what year they came out, I would be very surprised if they answered anything more recent than 2003.

[SiegePerilous02]

I think out of context away from the darker/too serious tone of the movie, the costumes look great.

Affleck's Batman would be easily the best looking Batman we've had on screen if not for the fact that he is in a movie trying to depress the hell out of you. But him in something that is straight up fantastical with some self aware camp like Burton's films? He'd be great.

Same with Wonder Woman. That's an excellent costume and you can take her serious very easily in her own films. Even in BvS where she is largely disconnected from all the way too serious stuff and just gets to breeze in and be awesome.

[XPac]

Exactly. It's basically Superman buckling Steppenwolf's knees until he's out on his feet and then Superman stepping back and letting Diana throw the last punch at a guy who was about to drop anyway. It needs to be shown that the other League members can all hurt him but they need to work together to beat him. In JL, the impression was that Superman was so fast and powerful that Steppenwolf was more insignificant to him than the rest of the League was to Steppenwolf.

There was a visceral thrill to Superman being that powerful but it totally nerfs Diana. If she fails to rescue those people, that even more delivers the message that she and the League are nothing without Superman.

I'll admit I marked out a bit at Superman... well, being Superman. Yes it sort of felt like the rest of the League weren't needed and I can understand why some might have issues with that. But one movie, especially him coming back from death, it was actually cool to see Superman feel like Superman. I'm not even a huge Superman fan and I still thought it somehow felt right.

Wouldn't want to see it all the time... but I"m glad I saw it in Justice League.

[Comic-Reader Lad]

As I stated above, I think there is a definite point to Snyder's dark tone above and beyond that he thinks it's cool.

What if he deliberately gave us a dark world to show us the effect of Darkseid's machinations behind the scenes all along?

I remember there were Fourth World comics where characters just being in Darkseid's presence would make them feel hopeless. Darkseid basically radiated darkness that affected all around him.

I think, if that's the case in the Snyderverse, it could be interesting because it gives the heroes an internal struggle to overcome instead of just an external conflict that's solved by a well-placed punch in the nose.

If it turns out that Darkseid has been the CAUSE all along of the self-doubt and negativity the heroes have been experiencing -- as a way to limit their effectiveness against him before he fully reveals himself and his plans to conquer the universe -- it would be an interesting plot swerve and recontextualize all the previous films.

[Ilan Preskovsky]

I think out of context away from the darker/too serious tone of the movie, the costumes look great.

Affleck's Batman would be easily the best looking Batman we've had on screen if not for the fact that he is in a movie trying to depress the hell out of you. But him in something that is straight up fantastical with some self aware camp like Burton's films? He'd be great.

Same with Wonder Woman. That's an excellent costume and you can take her serious very easily in her own films. Even in BvS where she is largely disconnected from all the way too serious stuff and just gets to breeze in and be awesome.

You're right, actually. If they were allowed to litterally show off their colours and not look like they're covered in grey-brown muck, both Batfleck and WW's costumes do actually look great. The less said about the Flash abomination the better, though.