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  1. #166
    Out Fighting for Peace! AJpyro's Avatar
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    Well if they used Storm like that or used Rachel, then they wouldn't have the story they wanted to tell.
    Le Suck it, Dolphin!

    -God I am so tired.

    SCOTT SUMMERS AND EMMA FROST DESERVED BETTER.

  2. #167
    Extraordinary Member
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    The thing I remember with Captain America is how he blackmailed Wolverine into going to see Cyclops in prison during AvX Consequences. He wanted Wolverine to get Cyclops to help them track down the rest of the P5 and the 'extinction team,' but Wolverine said he couldn't go because he hated Cyclops so much in that moment there was a good chance he'd lose it and kill 'Slim.' How did Cap respond? He immediately threatened Wolverine's school. 'If you don't cooperate, I'm gonna have a hard time protecting the school from the less progressive elements in government, the guys who like sentinels.'

    Captain America was willing to threaten children in order to blackmail a man into putting himself in a position where he he might murder a helpless prisoner in cold blood.

  3. #168
    Ultimate Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    They didnt go over her head. They had a meeting with all the Avengers, including her and they asked about the Phoenix. Storm chose to run out and leave them before they could even go into any details

    Just like Steve had a private one-on-one with Wolverine at his school, he could have easily done the same with Storm. It is kind of going over her head when you amass an army of Avengers with the intent of invading already.

  4. #169
    Extraordinary Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    They didnt go over her head. They had a meeting with all the Avengers, including her and they asked about the Phoenix. Storm chose to run out and leave them before they could even go into any details

    lol she was like oh helll nah....
    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    Just like Steve had a private one-on-one with Wolverine at his school, he could have easily done the same with Storm. It is kind of going over her head when you amass an army of Avengers with the intent of invading already.
    Right? like in high school when youre pulling up to party with your friends and you find out its at rivals house who's also your buddy ....
    or something
    GrindrStone(D)

  5. #170
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    I mean there are plenty out of universe reasons for this, but if you're really looking for an in-universe one, it's probably that most people in the MU consider Cyclops to be kind of a prick. And even though I personally love him, I can understand why they would see him that way - they brains don't see the world as a chessboard and the people on it as chess pieces.

    Also there's the fact that Wanda disappeared for some time after House of M while Scott became even more of a public figure after AvX. Maybe he should have stayed in hiding until Prof X came back to life, haha.

  6. #171
    Mighty Member houndsofluv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    Just like Steve had a private one-on-one with Wolverine at his school, he could have easily done the same with Storm. It is kind of going over her head when you amass an army of Avengers with the intent of invading already.
    Quote Originally Posted by BroHomo View Post
    lol she was like oh helll nah....


    Right? like in high school when youre pulling up to party with your friends and you find out its at rivals house who's also your buddy ....
    or something
    yes exactlyyy ! no wonder she doesn't fw any of these people anymore they did her so dirty. obviously this is a touchy subject and no one checked up on her, offered an ounce of empathy or considered why hm maybe pulling up to Utopia w/ fighting words is grossly insensitive. but I digress .
    and she forgave t'challa like what...if my husband did me like that hes getting more than the couch . but now I digress for real

  7. #172
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    Is breaking up nukes and other weaponry and imposing peace with an ultimatum moral? Reminds me of Injustice superman's beginings. Like genuine question. It seems like it reduces harm significantly, but you've also effectively subjugated the world.


    Quote Originally Posted by Will Evans View Post
    Ironically, Cap ended up doing exactly what Cyclops was trying to do in the first place. Train Hope to take the Phoenix Force. Which makes Cap the biggest hypocrite on the planet.
    trained her better than cyclops could though. Using wanda was necessary.
    Cyclops just didn't present a compelling argument that he'd be able to train hope and didn't really show any ways he could to the reader. Like atleast talk to rachel instead of making her your inside agent

    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    Complaining that the country you are invading has children is the time when the Avengers have been more American.



    "He wants us to look like the bullies here" said the American millionaire sheathed in a weapon of immense power as he prepared to attack a building full of children in another country.
    lmao

    "the building that functions as a school and refuge has children??? the madman!!!"

    Quote Originally Posted by cyclops_was_right View Post
    I mean there are plenty out of universe reasons for this, but if you're really looking for an in-universe one, it's probably that most people in the MU consider Cyclops to be kind of a prick. And even though I personally love him, I can understand why they would see him that way - they brains don't see the world as a chessboard and the people on it as chess pieces.

    Also there's the fact that Wanda disappeared for some time after House of M while Scott became even more of a public figure after AvX. Maybe he should have stayed in hiding until Prof X came back to life, haha.
    I do remember him becoming somewhat more radical due to the apocalypse merger that jean rescued him from, so he was going through a difficult time.

  8. #173
    Ultimate Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroHomo View Post
    Right? like in high school when youre pulling up to party with your friends and you find out its at rivals house who's also your buddy ....
    or something
    And imagine if Ororo did speak out. As we saw throughout AvX, the Avengers were VERY stubborn in wanting to kidnap Hope. She may have ended up just like Beast did in IvX.

    Quote Originally Posted by houndsofluv View Post
    yes exactlyyy ! no wonder she doesn't fw any of these people anymore they did her so dirty. obviously this is a touchy subject and no one checked up on her, offered an ounce of empathy or considered why hm maybe pulling up to Utopia w/ fighting words is grossly insensitive. but I digress .
    and she forgave t'challa like what...if my husband did me like that hes getting more than the couch . but now I digress for real
    Like Storm is smart, she knew what was up. That sort of meeting was only going one way with a skewed perception of the Phoenix and any dissenting opinions being been shouted down. If Rachel, the most in-control host of the Phoenix, explaining to them that Phoenix is more than death and destruction didn’t help, anything Storm said wouldn’t have mattered at all.

  9. #174
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    Just like Steve had a private one-on-one with Wolverine at his school, he could have easily done the same with Storm. It is kind of going over her head when you amass an army of Avengers with the intent of invading already.
    Maybe but its not accurate to say a force was assembled to go grab Hope without her input. She had the floor but ran and didnt even try to open up and tell them what she knew of the Phoenix and try to act as an ambassador. She was included before any action was taken

  10. #175
    Embrace the fluff FluffyCyclopsRLZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ichijinijisanji View Post
    Is breaking up nukes and other weaponry and imposing peace with an ultimatum moral? Reminds me of Injustice superman's beginings. Like genuine question. It seems like it reduces harm significantly, but you've also effectively subjugated the world.
    It really depends on how one feels about Western world leaders/tycoons whining about the diminishing market value of their privilege, really. If preservation of aforementioned privilege is more important than the lives/security/dignity of folks living in authoritarian/hybrid regimes, then, yeah, Pax Utopia was suuuper unethical. Otherwise, not really.

  11. #176
    Ultimate Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Maybe but its not accurate to say a force was assembled to go grab Hope without her input. She had the floor but ran and didnt even try to open up and tell them what she knew of the Phoenix and try to act as an ambassador. She was included before any action was taken
    You seriously think they would’ve stopped the entire invasion of Utopia on Storm’s whim?

  12. #177
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    You seriously think they would’ve stopped the entire invasion of Utopia on Storm’s whim?
    If you dont feel like they would, then what does it matter if they had a 1 on 1 conversation with her?

  13. #178
    Ultimate Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    If you dont feel like they would, then what does it matter if they had a 1 on 1 conversation with her?
    Because at that point, Steve already had his interpretation of the Phoenix in his head. A one-on-one with someone who lives on the island he was thinking about invading before amassing the entire roster of the Avengers could’ve changed the protocol.

  14. #179
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    Because at that point, Steve already had his interpretation of the Phoenix in his head. A one-on-one with someone who lives on the island he was thinking about invading before amassing the entire roster of the Avengers could’ve changed the protocol.
    And Storm could have offered her opinion. She had no clue what Steve's interpretation of the Phoenix was bc she didnt stay long enough to hear him out. She didnt even know he talked to Logan. She literally learned nothing and bounced before she could collect any intel. Steve would have told her as that was the point of the meeting

  15. #180
    Astonishing Member Ra-El's Avatar
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    For what I understand, Moira, Xavier, Magneto, Apocalypse and Sinister were ALL working with each other since the begining right? Everything was part of their plan?
    So is all orchestrated by them, even AvX. Sinister found Scott when he was a kid, messed with his head, Xavier rescued him, indocrinated a teenager with his dreams at the same time turned him into a soldier since he was 16 years old. Then he had contact with Magneto and his more radical position. Years later, after several losses of loved ones, caused by the violent life Xavier imposed on him, he was merged with the conscious of a ancient psycopath who basically tortured Scott for months.

    I mean, the Shiar abducting his parents is really a random event, or was it caused by Xavier through his lover? What about M-Day, Magneto mentally abusing Wanda all those years caused it, did he knew?
    All the events that led into AvX were caused by a group of people that have knowlodge of possibles futures and used it to manipulate people and events and achieve a specific goal, Krakoa nation.
    Scott and Wanda aren't guilt, but victms.
    Last edited by Ra-El; 05-25-2020 at 07:35 PM.

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