What level should be lois lane - the fighter be at?

[manwhohaseverything]

This is the kind of thinking, frankly, that turned The Joker into a fast fighting game character from someone who wasn't a physical threat to Batman. It's what ruined the Green Arrow/Black Canary power dynamic by giving Ollie martial arts training. It turns characters into less interesting hyper-generalized, homogenized messes. All strengths, no weaknesses until everyone is the same with just a different costume. She absolutely is the first lady of comics. She probably has a mean right hook, but I'm not trying to restrict Lois so much as respecting the broad DCU.

She is a reporter who got some self defense training from her dad or his associates. Sam Lane et all have never been on Batman, Black Canary or anyone else's level. Neither has Lois. Moreover, yeah, she got a win on Dinah. Catwoman got a win on three flashes in as many panels. Bad writing is bad writing and everyone gets hit or benefits from it from time to time.

Yes, Lois could absolutely beat up The Riddler. He's not a physical threat to anyone. He's a schmuck in that respect. Two-Face strikes me as a guy who can take a couple of punches, but I can see Lois putting him on his ass with some difficulty. He's big, strong and a tough bastard, but has no martial skill. He just throws a punch and uses weapons with the same skill as a thug. Harley, while not at Dick's level, is an accomplished gymnast and trained fighter with some degree of advanced strength and abilities. She can threaten Batman a bit. She's out of Lois Lane's weight class as far as a physical threat, but Lois could absolutely crush Harley in a one-on-one test of character. She'd break Harley down given enough time, because Lois can cut through anyone's BS given enough time.

Yes, she absolutely was intended to be a civilian. She was designed to be someone for Superman to save but with a strength of character he admired. I know you have this very unique take on Superman, so perhaps we're destined to disagree, but elevating her to the rest of the DCU actually undermines her. She's unique BECAUSE she's not a physical threat to most the costumed world. She's terrifying because of her ability to put anyone under the microscope and root out the secrets they don't want anyone to know. Her strength comes from who she is and what she can do with her skill set, not because she can deck someone on top of it. Lois was always the kind of woman who would walk right up to Darkseid and tell him he's a jackass. She would look Slade Wilson in the eye and tell him that the only way to silence the truth is to kill her and better have tried. She isn't going to actually beat him in a fight or pose a challenge. That's not who or what she is.

Look back to early Rebirth. She used the Hellbat armor to fight the Eradicator. She's scrappy and resourceful. She has a very strong character. She isn't, however, anywhere on the DC power radar.

Well you haven't said anything i disagree on. Except for the last part in bold. Moreover, she grew up with military. She didn't just learn some martial skill. Her father treated her like everyone else. That means, she is a soldier who chose reporting. She has been training as long as or longer than batman. So, her being able to be a fighter wouldn't be much of surprise.Harley might be gymnast. Doing flips in fight, that close quarters combat will be stupidest thing you can do. So, lois takes it. Moreover, she would have needed to take a break for her medical practice. Lois is, was and always will be lady action. Both silverage and goldenage had her be that. She was always in the middle of the action. She never took breaks and was always getting into and out of trouble.As for being homogenised,true it has weaknesses. But, it has also strengths. How? A world where anyone can take anyone is much more complex than a clear hierarchy.

[Flash Gordon]

She's probably taken some self defense classes.

[seismic-2]

She's probably taken some self defense classes.

As Sam Lane's daughter, she's probably taught some self-defense classes, for other women (and likely men too!) on the Daily Planet staff.

[Sacred Knight]

I wouldn't go that far. Sure she's learned some things being an army brat, but are they things sustained throughout her lifetime to be a qualified teacher? I don't recall stories where she's generally on that level. Its not her passion. Journalism is her passion and it stands to reason that's where the vast bulk of her attention goes at whatever point in her particular origin it is that she's turned onto the profession. And that's usually pretty early on. Nothing saying she couldn't have gotten that good if she wanted to, with the dedication surely she could've, but her dedication wasn't towards martial arts, self-defense, or weapons. It was toward journalism. Its also not to say she can't be proficient in more than one thing. Its just that in most incarnations I know of, she's not really a jack of all trades in this regard. She is a reporter, that's what she loves and that's where her focus and attention lies. If she has an origin that states otherwise, that she's been in training with these types of things her entire life consistently, I definitely take back all of this, I just don't recall an origin in which this was the case?

[Restingvoice]

Just realized I haven't answered, from what I've seen she can fight and win against the standard goons and muggers but not experienced martial artists.

Storytelling wise she's supposed to represent or inspire the independent career woman. They can be strong enough to defend themselves but not so powerful it's unachievable. Her highest strength is in her integrity and tenacity.

[Flash Gordon]

As Sam Lane's daughter, she's probably taught some self-defense classes, for other women (and likely men too!) on the Daily Planet staff.

I mean, sure- I guess. Not sure why that's important for her to do, as a character.

[DochaDocha]

I'm wondering if one of the main reasons they changed Sam Lane's background to army general, other than to ape Thunderbolt Ross, was so that they could say Lois is an army brat, and by saying she's an army brat, they can use that as an excuse so writers can have carte blanche to write her as peculiarly well-prepared to handle any action situation. I think that's pretty lazy and nonsensical writing, but on the other hand, I do enjoy The Karate Kid...

[seismic-2]

Man of Steel #63







Hardcore. Definitely hardcore.

[Jon Clark]

Man of Steel #63







Hardcore. Definitely hardcore.

This is the issue I always think of as an example of badly written Action-Lois. She suddenly had more combat skill in one issue than she had hinted at in the prior 7-8 years.

[Cata]

This is the issue I always think of as an example of badly written Action-Lois. She suddenly had more combat skill in one issue than she had hinted at in the prior 7-8 years.

Well, I think this contradicts that.

tumblr_l6fzooOaQ61qbt9t9o1_1280Superman Man of Steel v1 n4.jpg

Pre-Crisis, she went to the bottle city of Kandor and learnt Klurkor and her father wasn't an US Army General:

tumblr_m3vy5leNbN1qexgfho1_1280Superman Family 185.jpg

Post-Crisis, she practised Torquasm-Rao with Clark and Bruce also trained her:

main-qimg-446bc678e934a08bef73c90093cad166.jpg

[The_Lurk]

Man of Steel #63


Hardcore. Definitely hardcore.

Thanks! I looked for hours (and was too lazy to photo it from the book :P ). These where the ones I was referring too in my initial post

This is the issue I always think of as an example of badly written Action-Lois. She suddenly had more combat skill in one issue than she had hinted at in the prior 7-8 years.

Awww COME ON!

pages upon pages
"Lois cant fight!"
"Lois can fight!"
"Lois cant fight!"
"Lois can fight!"
"Lois cant fight!"
"*shows source material*"
"... that's just bad writing, Lois cant fight!"

[manwhohaseverything]

Yeah! At this point that seems not right. The reason why lois skills is overshadowed might because she is standing next to freaking superman. If she was batman's crime solving partner, she would have been seen differently.

#lois4robin

[DochaDocha]

If she was batman's crime solving partner, she would have been seen differently.

Well, if she was Batman's crime-solving (and fighting) partner, it would be expected that she went through hell to train. Isn't the implication that the training the Robins underwent was the most sophisticated, intense, and grueling training program anyone would undergo? I mean, yeah, there's a lot of nonsense that goes on in the Bat-verse, and I really dislike it when the cartoons draw pint-sized Robins, but at least the stories are generally consistent in telling us how utterly insane their training is, and that the reason Batman and the Robins were able to power through the training is because of their unhealthy obsessions with vengeance and justice. A lot of unlikely things have to happen to make a Batman-level fighter, making Batman a statistical fluke and nearly unrepeatable.

On the other hand, a lot of writers just ignore all that and just say training is training, if you hit the minimum requirement (which is nowhere near what Batman underwent) then you're good to go. Your kung fu and plot armor will get you through the end, just look at Harley Quinn.

[manwhohaseverything]

Well, if she was Batman's crime-solving (and fighting) partner, it would be expected that she went through hell to train. Isn't the implication that the training the Robins underwent was the most sophisticated, intense, and grueling training program anyone would undergo? I mean, yeah, there's a lot of nonsense that goes on in the Bat-verse, and I really dislike it when the cartoons draw pint-sized Robins, but at least the stories are generally consistent in telling us how utterly insane their training is, and that the reason Batman and the Robins were able to power through the training is because of their unhealthy obsessions with vengeance and justice. A lot of unlikely things have to happen to make a Batman-level fighter, making Batman a statistical fluke and nearly unrepeatable.

On the other hand, a lot of writers just ignore all that and just say training is training, if you hit the minimum requirement (which is nowhere near what Batman underwent) then you're good to go. Your kung fu and plot armor will get you through the end, just look at Harley Quinn.

Atleast with lois i never got the vibe that she was there to be just an ordinary gal. She was a subversion of the damsel in distress thing. Instead of trouble finding the damsel. The damsel finds the trouble. Moreover, lois being a competent fighter would atleast make sense if sam literally trained her like other soldiers under him. She would have started training early.Maybe earlier than the batkids or batman himself. They should do an origin story for lois. The swashbuckling adventures of one reporter lois lane. Come to think of it bendis had her working up to be a spy, like her father with all the leviathan thing.

[DochaDocha]

Atleast with lois i never got the vibe that she was there to be just an ordinary gal. She was a subversion of the damsel in distress thing. Instead of trouble finding the damsel. The damsel finds the trouble. Moreover, lois being a competent fighter would atleast make sense if sam literally trained her like other soldiers under him. She would have started training early.Maybe earlier than the batkids or batman himself. They should do an origin story for lois. The swashbuckling adventures of one reporter lois lane. Come to think of it bendis had her working up to be a spy, like her father with all the leviathan thing.

Started training before the Batkids? I think that's just going too far. You're basically saying Sam decided the best environment for Lois would be that of a comic book Spartan. What's she doing, going to school in the morning and then training with the Rangers for eight hours?