What level should be lois lane - the fighter be at?

[Jon Clark]

Thanks! I looked for hours (and was too lazy to photo it from the book :P ). These where the ones I was referring too in my initial post



Awww COME ON!

pages upon pages
"Lois cant fight!"
"Lois can fight!"
"Lois cant fight!"
"Lois can fight!"
"Lois cant fight!"
"*shows source material*"
"... that's just bad writing, Lois cant fight!"

To me, I have no problem with Lois taking out a few thugs (say 4 at most) who are caught off-guard.
The pic from Man of Steel #3 on Lex' yacht made sense because Lex had hired these goons to look tough and attract Superman's attention. They were not supposed to have any serious chance at succeeding in hi-jacking the yacjht. So, it was still Lois against rent-a-thugs.
But Man of Steel #63 was Lois taking on a whole group of guys who were supposed to be professionals. She went from a reporter who can handle herself in a pinch to "hey this person belongs on a top flight commando team not writing up news stories". It felt (to me) less like Lois winning a local amateur boxing match in her weight class and more like Lois walking from the Planet over to Metropolis Square Garden and taking out the 5th ranked heavyweight champion in the world spur of the moment.

[Jon Clark]

Started training before the Batkids? I think that's just going too far. You're basically saying Sam decided the best environment for Lois would be that of a comic book Spartan. What's she doing, going to school in the morning and then training with the Rangers for eight hours?

And then once she joins the Planet, she must spend every moment not sleeping or reporting keeping up with that training, right? Or do we assume after Sam trained her until age 18 she magically maintains her skill level even if her average opponent is a drunk guy or a purse-snatcher? Because she isn't fighting super-villains one-on-one in the early part of her career while working her way up the reporting ladder.

[manwhohaseverything]

Started training before the Batkids? I think that's just going too far. You're basically saying Sam decided the best environment for Lois would be that of a comic book Spartan. What's she doing, going to school in the morning and then training with the Rangers for eight hours?

Well, i started training with fencing before batkids. That doesn't mean i did it as rigorously or as gruelling like the kids. What i said was it is perfectly possible for lois to start training before batkids indiscipline, flexibility and some self defence .with batkids, They were what? 10 when they started. Bruce too started pretty late. I know kids who start at 5 in different things.

[Cata]

Started training before the Batkids? I think that's just going too far. You're basically saying Sam decided the best environment for Lois would be that of a comic book Spartan. What's she doing, going to school in the morning and then training with the Rangers for eight hours?

Yes, I do think she started training before the batkids, for all the reasons seismic-2 and others said. Her father wanted a son and he trained her like a soldier since she was a little girl. Enough to be a third degree black belt at 19 yo, just like in SMALLVILLE. Then later in life her husband trained her in kriptonian martial arts and she pick up a few things from Batman. He even said she was the fastest learner he ever had.

[Adekis]

I used to love the idea of the black-belt badass Lois Lane, but I've come around to thinking it's trying a little too hard. What makes Lois so cool is her force of personality and the way the audience can identify with her, and not her ability to wreck someone's day in a fist fight. She's not Bruce Lee, and she doesn't have to be.

In Batman v Superman, Lois gets kidnapped by Anatoli Knyazev, and I couldn't help but think, "there's versions of Lois who'd be able to whup this guy right now... Do I think that would be better?" I realized I really didn't. I don't think I'd relate to her more if she could do that, maybe I don't think it would make her a better character at all.

Phyllis Coates' Lois couldn't fight as far as I know, but she's still one of the best and most hard-boiled Lois Lanes of all time.

[DochaDocha]

Well, i started training with fencing before batkids. That doesn't mean i did it as rigorously or as gruelling like the kids. What i said was it is perfectly possible for lois to start training before batkids indiscipline, flexibility and some self defence .with batkids, They were what? 10 when they started. Bruce too started pretty late. I know kids who start at 5 in different things.

Fair enough. I always thought Bruce and Dick were maybe 8 when they started.

[manwhohaseverything]

I used to love the idea of the black-belt badass Lois Lane, but I've come around to thinking it's trying a little too hard. What makes Lois so cool is her force of personality and the way the audience can identify with her, and not her ability to wreck someone's day in a fist fight. She's not Bruce Lee, and she doesn't have to be.

In Batman v Superman, Lois gets kidnapped by Anatoli Knyazev, and I couldn't help but think, "there's versions of Lois who'd be able to whup this guy right now... Do I think that would be better?" I realized I really didn't. I don't think I'd relate to her more if she could do that, maybe I don't think it would make her a better character at all.

Phyllis Coates' Lois couldn't fight as far as I know, but she's still one of the best and most hard-boiled Lois Lanes of all time.

Well, with bvs though there were complaints superman having to save lois all the time. It just wasn't as loud as other complaints for obvious reasons.

[Adekis]

If somebody's complaining about Superman saving Lois Lane, then maybe they haven't been paying attention for the last eighty years, haha! He doesn't save her from every single mess she gets herself into, but he saves her from most of them, and a lot of the time, the reason is because she's in over her head!

And lest anyone think it's a sexist kind of trope, Jimmy Olsen is in the exact same position, he's just grossly under-used these days. Jack Larson and Noel Neil definitely get rescued about the same amount during the George Reeves days! Or for that matter, Steve Trevor, for the supporting cast of a certain other star-spangled hero!

[manwhohaseverything]

If somebody's complaining about Superman saving Lois Lane, then maybe they haven't been paying attention for the last eighty years, haha! He doesn't save her from every single mess she gets herself into, but he saves her from most of them, and a lot of the time, the reason is because she's in over her head!

And lest anyone think it's a sexist kind of trope, Jimmy Olsen is in the exact same position, he's just grossly under-used these days. Jack Larson and Noel Neil definitely get rescued about the same amount during the George Reeves days! Or for that matter, Steve Trevor, for the supporting cast of a certain other star-spangled hero!

It's not just sexism. That might be a reason for some. But, That's(superman havibg to save lois frequently) precisely more reason for the complaint. They think it's too frequent and done to death. Personally, superman saves lois. And lois gets into trouble.It's a tale as old as time. I am not bothered by it. But, lois should be competent enough to get into trouble. Otherwise, the subversion wouldn't work.

[DochaDocha]

I think they might've overdone it a tad in Man of Steel and BvS, but in the latter movie's case, there are other issues that merit more complaints.

For me, it depends on the nature of the scene and the quantity. Like, if she's falling out of a flying vehicle, then there aren't that many options. If she's surrounded by enemy Spec Ops, she (or anyone, maybe even Batman under certain conditions) is going to need help. For some, I'd understand if 3-4 times a movie is too much.

[Robanker]

For what it's worth, Steve Trevor is out of Lois Lane's weight class and he doesn't do well against the costumes either. He's an actual super spy these days, so that's saying something. Making Lois into a commando is trying way too hard and compensating for an insecurity on Lois's strength, which is in her personality and pursuit of justice.

It reminds me a lot of the CW stripping Ollie of his personality to make him into Batman-lite because the showrunners thought Ollie was lame. They didn't get him.

I don't think Lois not being able to take out Steve Trevor or costumed criminals makes her weak. That's never what she was about. It's not sexist to be weaker than superheroes if you make up for it elsewhere, which she does. In spades.

[manwhohaseverything]

For what it's worth, Steve Trevor is out of Lois Lane's weight class and he doesn't do well against the costumes either. He's an actual super spy these days, so that's saying something. Making Lois into a commando is trying way too hard and compensating for an insecurity on Lois's strength, which is in her personality and pursuit of justice.

It reminds me a lot of the CW stripping Ollie of his personality to make him into Batman-lite because the showrunners thought Ollie was lame. They didn't get him.

I don't think Lois not being able to take out Steve Trevor or costumed criminals makes her weak. That's never what she was about. It's not sexist to be weaker than superheroes if you make up for it elsewhere, which she does. In spades.

I don't understand that. A lawyer with tommy gun is batman's equal. Yet, lois lane as a fighter should be out of everyone's league has to beat up small time thugs. Nope! That's nonsense. Just because you have this idea that lois was always a noncombatent doesn't mean she actually was. Right from goldenage she was badass. Her being able to write articles is great and all. But, this is still action genre. Superman's cast being able to throw some jabs, kicks wouldn't and shouldn't be out of character.

[DochaDocha]

I don't understand that. A lawyer with tommy gun is batman's equal. Yet, lois lane as a fighter should be out of everyone's league has to beat up small time thugs. Nope! That's nonsense. Just because you have this idea that lois was always a noncombatent doesn't mean she actually was. Right from goldenage she was badass. Her being able to write articles is great and all. But, this is still action genre. Superman's cast being able to throw some jabs, kicks wouldn't and shouldn't be out of character.

Batman's side of the DC universe is broken. He should have very few equals in combat, but that doesn't tell the story the writer wants, so said lawyer with Tommy gun is situationally Batman's equal. But now that I think about it, if they're fighting in an open with little to no cover and a certain amount of distance between them, the guy with the Tommy gun should have a leg up on Batman... Anyway, I would rather we wouldn't look at some of the bad action sequences in Batman to guide how to write these sequences in Superman.

[Robanker]

I don't understand that. A lawyer with tommy gun is batman's equal. Yet, lois lane as a fighter should be out of everyone's league has to beat up small time thugs. Nope! That's nonsense. Just because you have this idea that lois was always a noncombatent doesn't mean she actually was. Right from goldenage she was badass. Her being able to write articles is great and all. But, this is still action genre. Superman's cast being able to throw some jabs, kicks wouldn't and shouldn't be out of character.

Two Face is in no way Batman's equal. Most his rogues gallery are not a physical match for him. Once he gets to most of them, it's over in a page. Try harder, man.

[Adekis]

For what it's worth, Steve Trevor is out of Lois Lane's weight class and he doesn't do well against the costumes either. He's an actual super spy these days, so that's saying something. Making Lois into a commando is trying way too hard and compensating for an insecurity on Lois's strength, which is in her personality and pursuit of justice.

It reminds me a lot of the CW stripping Ollie of his personality to make him into Batman-lite because the showrunners thought Ollie was lame. They didn't get him.

I don't think Lois not being able to take out Steve Trevor or costumed criminals makes her weak. That's never what she was about. It's not sexist to be weaker than superheroes if you make up for it elsewhere, which she does. In spades.

I agree with all that; I think that basically Lois' personality is what makes her compelling, and the attempt to make her a top-tier physical combatant is frankly an attempt to compensate for something that didn't need compensating.