Page 2 of 11 FirstFirst 123456 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 155
  1. #16
    Helping the Helpless Denirac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    2,005

    Default

    Y'know, I normally agree to an extent, *but* the DC Universe Harley Cartoon has been somewhat changing my mind on how much I hate her to an extent. I really like that Harley for some reason. That show is the only Version I've actually liked since the 90s.

    And yeah, I agree with everyone here, New 52 really put me off Harley with the killing kids thing
    Last edited by Denirac; 05-25-2020 at 11:42 AM.
    Wally West deserved better than Heroes in Crisis

    Pull List:

    DC: JUSTICE LEAGUE, JUSTICE LEAGUE DARK, JUSTICE LEAGUE ODYSSEY, ACTION COMICS, LEVIATHAN, LAST KNIGHT ON EARTH

    MARVEL: AMAZING SPIDER-MAN, VENOM, WEB OF VENOM, ABSOLUTE CARNAGE, DAREDEVIL, HOUSE OF X, POWERS OF X, FANTASTIC FOUR

    BOOM STUDIOS: BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER, ANGEL

  2. #17
    Mighty Member MoneySpider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    1,350

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Denirac View Post
    Y'know, I normally agree to an extent, *but* the DC Universe Harley Cartoon has been somewhat changing my mind on how much I hate her to an extent. I really like that Harley for some reason. That show is the only Version I've actually liked since the 90s.

    And yeah, I agree with everyone here, New 52 really put me off Harley with the killing kids thing
    Yeah, as much as I hate to admit it, those Harley Quinn animated previews I see on YouTube do look good and funny.
    Black Panther - Champion of Bast
    Vixen - Champion of Anansi

  3. #18
    Helping the Helpless Denirac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    2,005

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MoneySpider View Post
    Yeah, as much as I hate to admit it, those Harley Quinn animated previews I see on YouTube do look good and funny.
    It's actually really good. Plus: They make it clear that she *is* a victim, and it does affect how she reacts to things, but they also make it clear she does make her own choices, and there aren't excuses for it.
    Wally West deserved better than Heroes in Crisis

    Pull List:

    DC: JUSTICE LEAGUE, JUSTICE LEAGUE DARK, JUSTICE LEAGUE ODYSSEY, ACTION COMICS, LEVIATHAN, LAST KNIGHT ON EARTH

    MARVEL: AMAZING SPIDER-MAN, VENOM, WEB OF VENOM, ABSOLUTE CARNAGE, DAREDEVIL, HOUSE OF X, POWERS OF X, FANTASTIC FOUR

    BOOM STUDIOS: BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER, ANGEL

  4. #19
    Mighty Member John Venus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,154

    Default

    Speaking as someone who grew up watching the DCAU and came out more enamored with Catwoman and Poison Ivy over Quinn, my only issue with modern day Quinn is that they gave her artificially enhanced strength and added 'being dumped into chemicals' as part of her origin. I don't know whose suspension of disbelief was being challenged by Harley pulling off acrobatics and caking herself in white make up but they just struck me as unnecessary additions to her origins. The enhanced strength thing is also present in her pre-Nu 52 ongoing as well.

  5. #20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy_McNichts View Post
    I'm sure this topic or something similar has come up, but I'm not sure where those threads are. I just want to throw this out there.

    I was never that into Harley Quinn as a character, but nowadays I just find her insufferable. Thinking about why she's come to bothers me so much, I realized she really went downhill when DC decided she should be "empowered" while maintaining her identity as "Joker's abused girlfriend."

    In the old cartoons and her initial comic appearances, if Harley was portrayed as an empowered figure, it was because/after she broke away from the Joker. She'd either pair up with Poison Ivy or be somewhat of an anti-hero, but either way, she was at worst mischievous.
    A villain, but a relatively harmless one you could see heroes tolerating if they found themselves forced to cooperate with her.

    But then, pretty much around the New 52, they decided Harley should be "empowered" but still "Joker's girlfriend"...which, on the face of it, seems a contradictory concept. So they decided the way to do that was by making her Joker's "equal."
    Yeah, he abuses her, but she's just as crazy and dangerous and he is, if not more crazy (stated almost verbatim in the Suicide Squad movie). In turn, her actions escalated to outright monstrous and cruel (orchestrating the deaths of hundreds of children).

    So she's a strong, empowered woman despite the Joker abusing her because it's a mutually toxic relationship and they're both awful people. And that makes it edgy, too! Right?

    And yet, despite Harley being established as just as vile and nasty as the Joker, writers still maintain her aura as a lovable, harmless villain or anti-hero with a heart of gold. I'm sure I'm not the only who sees the issue here.

    Irritatingly, it all comes across as a cynical effort by DC to make her their answer to Deadpool.
    A sexy answer, because I don't think it's a coincidence the shift in her character also came with far more revealing outfits.

    It results in a confused and inconsistent portrayal of Harley that gets hand-waved with "But she's crazy!"

    That's why she fangirls at the sight of Wonder Woman in one comic...then rolls her eyes & brushes Diana off as a lame square in another.

    It's why Harley is supposed to be a dangerous, unpredictable wild-card like the Joker...but at the same time, heroes just shrug and smile at her presence instead of twisting her head off.

    Say what you will about Deadpool, he is somewhat consistent in his morals, such as they are, and how other characters respond to him. He's a mercenary, but he has lines he won't cross and other heroes regard him as (at least) a dangerous nuisance or (at worst) a scumbag that should be put down.

    In a way, Harley is the victim of her own popularity. Fans liked the lovable clown. They liked the abuse survivor. They liked the tragedy that she kept crawling back to the Joker.
    And in response, DC gave MOAR of all of that, resulting in an obnoxious mess of a character who gets shoe-horned into stories she shouldn't be a part of, put on a level with other character she shouldn't be near, and grows more and more into a caricature of what she initially was.

    Sort of like how fans liked the notion Batman was crafty and cunning enough to beat seemingly insurmountable odds and that eventually grew into the goddamn Bat-god who can beat the entire Justice League single-handed with whatever he's got in his utility belt.

    Two cents.

    Some of this is the character being re-imagined in different media, in that sense she is no different than any other top DC hero/anti-hero/villain. The ex-girlfriend of an abuser like Joker (and to be fair even in Batman: The Animated Series there were at least one time where she abused him most notably at the end of of the episode "Joker's Millions" where she beats an injured Joker in the back of police van with a nightstick, but that is the exception to the rule) in a toxic relationship (which is something that both women and men can relate to as well) and the fact that she can jump between hero/anti-hero/villain makes her more flexible as a character than say any member of the Trinity because in one show she's in an abusive relationship and she does have a heart of gold. In another show/movie/comic she is even more sadistic than any version of the Joker. I think that is a reason why she is so scattered all over the place because if Margot Robbie wants to play her as a lovable goofball or as an extremely violent evil bitch she can.

    Also DC now having seemingly thoroughly embraced the concept of the multiverse so creators across all media can do re-imagine characters like Harley Quinn in any number of ways without having to be stuck just as the Joker's goofy and violent girlfriend. She can be whatever the storyteller wants her to be.

  6. #21
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    22,988

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberstrike View Post
    Some of this is the character being re-imagined in different media, in that sense she is no different than any other top DC hero/anti-hero/villain. The ex-girlfriend of an abuser like Joker (and to be fair even in Batman: The Animated Series there were at least one time where she abused him most notably at the end of of the episode "Joker's Millions" where she beats an injured Joker in the back of police van with a nightstick, but that is the exception to the rule) in a toxic relationship (which is something that both women and men can relate to as well) and the fact that she can jump between hero/anti-hero/villain makes her more flexible as a character than say any member of the Trinity because in one show she's in an abusive relationship and she does have a heart of gold. In another show/movie/comic she is even more sadistic than any version of the Joker. I think that is a reason why she is so scattered all over the place because if Margot Robbie wants to play her as a lovable goofball or as an extremely violent evil bitch she can.

    Also DC now having seemingly thoroughly embraced the concept of the multiverse so creators across all media can do re-imagine characters like Harley Quinn in any number of ways without having to be stuck just as the Joker's goofy and violent girlfriend. She can be whatever the storyteller wants her to be.
    I'd hardly call that abuse given what he does to her throughout the DCAU. At worst, it's payback.

  7. #22
    Astonishing Member batnbreakfast's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    3,633

    Default

    When did Harley kill kids? First time I've read that

  8. #23
    Helping the Helpless Denirac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    2,005

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by batnbreakfast View Post
    When did Harley kill kids? First time I've read that
    New 52 Detective Comics 23.2. Her Villains Month tie-in.
    Wally West deserved better than Heroes in Crisis

    Pull List:

    DC: JUSTICE LEAGUE, JUSTICE LEAGUE DARK, JUSTICE LEAGUE ODYSSEY, ACTION COMICS, LEVIATHAN, LAST KNIGHT ON EARTH

    MARVEL: AMAZING SPIDER-MAN, VENOM, WEB OF VENOM, ABSOLUTE CARNAGE, DAREDEVIL, HOUSE OF X, POWERS OF X, FANTASTIC FOUR

    BOOM STUDIOS: BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER, ANGEL

  9. #24
    Astonishing Member batnbreakfast's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    3,633

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Denirac View Post
    New 52 Detective Comics 23.2. Her Villains Month tie-in.
    Was there a single good villains month issue? I don't remember but what I don't own I've read reviews of and those were all stinkers

  10. #25
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    6,455

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by batnbreakfast View Post
    Was there a single good villains month issue? I don't remember but what I don't own I've read reviews of and those were all stinkers
    I thought Croc killing the corrupt cops who killed his buddy was pretty good

  11. #26

    Default

    My problem with Harley is that WB/DC seems to have issues differentiating between successful merchandise sales and the ACTUAL popularity of the CHARACTER Harley Quinn.

    Mainstream fans enjoy Harley because she has a look that's easy to cosplay, and they like to put little Harley knick knacks around there bedroom, office, car, etc.. Her look was what really propelled the character in the first place, even going back to BTAS. I think regular fans begin to care less and less about the character when tying her to the Batverse or the overall DCU. But because she sells so well, it feels like she's stuffed down our throats and at the expense of other, better characters.

    As far as comic book fans, I think the inconsistency of the character and how she's portrayed is problematic. Personally speaking, I always found Harley to be tolerable but in small doses and more as the Joker's sidekick with an occasional prominent appearance or mini series. I've just never bought her as THE star. Part of it is that she's been involved with so many of Joker's heinous crimes that trying to make her an antihero or whatever doesn't work for me, and her origin as a psychiatrist definitely has never worked for me.

  12. #27
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    5,206

    Default

    The cartoon turned me around on the character. She's a lot of fun when set in a goofier DCU. My main problem with her current status in the comics is that they haven't finished reconciling her past crimes with her wacky anti-hero role. Seeing her hang out at the Hall of Justice when Superman revealed his secret identity took me completely out of the story. I understand she's popular, but that simply doesn't make any sense.

  13. #28
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    51,573

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    The cartoon turned me around on the character. She's a lot of fun when set in a goofier DCU. My main problem with her current status in the comics is that they haven't finished reconciling her past crimes with her wacky anti-hero role. Seeing her hang out at the Hall of Justice when Superman revealed his secret identity took me completely out of the story. I understand she's popular, but that simply doesn't make any sense.
    What I appreciate about the cartoon is that they don't make as much excuses for how horrible a person she is, and she's really not this overpowered force of nature that can get the better of the Trinity.

  14. #29
    Astonishing Member Captain Craig's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Nashville, TN
    Posts
    3,426

    Default

    Harley has suffered the problem of a number of characters but in her case the "all over the map" characterization has turned me off of her.
    In the 90s, to name a few, you had Punisher, Wolverine, Venom and Lobo appearing all over the place. However, the characterization was 98% in tact from writer to writer and editor.
    Deadpool really exploded in the 2000s(Aughts?) but again his portrayal was largely consistent.

    Not so with Harley. I also don't see that dressing trashy is "empowering". Off topic its also why I hate, hate the exposed mid riff costume design on the Huntress costume.
    "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings" - Optimus Prime

  15. #30
    Fantastic Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    327

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by staptik777 View Post
    I couldn't agree more

    Harley also can beat the entire Justice League single-handed with whatever she's got in Batman's utility belt

    No offence but that isn't the entire Justice League, just three members.

    Personally I adore that scene. It's good to see Batman get taken down a few pegs.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •