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  1. #46
    Spectacular Member Menacer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The tall man View Post
    Given their abilities that have been presented throughout their comic existence Harley should not be able to escape or get the better of Batman. She doesn't have the training or strategic mindset to out think or outmaneuver him, and she is in no way a better fighter than him. So how does one rationalize this, by accepting she is just a wildcard who jobs out people above her weight class with the right amount of crazy. I don't know what was worse, Harley jobbing the trinity or Selina jobbing three Flashes. Yes comics demand some form of suspension of belief but how far do you take that before everything is viewed as a joke. Where is the line drawn, clearly not at Harley jobbing Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman.
    You are 100% wrong about Harley. She is a bad ass bitch and time and time again the stories show her holding her own and winning.

    15 wins in this list

    https://screenrant.com/superheroes-h...suicide-squad/

  2. #47
    Astonishing Member batnbreakfast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Menacer View Post
    You are 100% wrong about Harley. She is a bad ass bitch and time and time again the stories show her holding her own and winning.

    15 wins in this list

    https://screenrant.com/superheroes-h...suicide-squad/
    Hopefully, I'll never meet a woman who takes your line as a compliment. Also poor argument.

  3. #48
    Incredible Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Menacer View Post
    You are 100% wrong about Harley. She is a bad ass bitch and time and time again the stories show her holding her own and winning.

    15 wins in this list

    https://screenrant.com/superheroes-h...suicide-squad/
    The majority of these sound like poor comedy writing but the Tim Drake entry just serves to remind why I don't even think DCAU Harley Quinn works as a sympathetic character.

  4. #49
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    The majority of these sound like poor comedy writing but the Tim Drake entry just serves to remind why I don't even think DCAU Harley Quinn works as a sympathetic character.
    It's also canon for live-action Harley that she helped Joker kill Robin...

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    It's also canon for live-action Harley that she helped Joker kill Robin...
    To be fair, given how the canon changes on a whim, I don't think it's right to hold that one against her

  6. #51
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The tall man View Post
    Given their abilities that have been presented throughout their comic existence Harley should not be able to escape or get the better of Batman.
    Eh, running away from Batman is what the Gotham lunatics spend most of their time doing, and the story usually goes along the lines of "villain does something, Batman chases them, villain escapes Batman, Batman adjusts his plan, goes after them again, and catches them."

    Harls escaping Bruce is typical Act 1 stuff.

    But the idea of her escaping him, *and* Diana *and* Clark is f*cking ridiculous. It should take everything Harley has to get away from Bats, much less the literal goddess and sun-powered super alien.
    Last edited by Ascended; 05-29-2020 at 03:54 PM.
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  7. #52
    Incredible Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    It's also canon for live-action Harley that she helped Joker kill Robin...
    Yeah, there’s some lesser offenders but just about every major incarnation of Quinn I find fails as a sympathetic character given how many horrible things she goes along with the Joker on. But she’s popular which is what gets her a pardon I guess.

  8. #53
    Spectacular Member Menacer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    Yeah, there’s some lesser offenders but just about every major incarnation of Quinn I find fails as a sympathetic character given how many horrible things she goes along with the Joker on. But she’s popular which is what gets her a pardon I guess.
    Yet some how Joaquin Phoenix manages to make the joker seem sympathetic in many peoples minds.

    Or the killing joke

  9. #54
    Mighty Member babyblob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Menacer View Post
    Yet some how Joaquin Phoenix manages to make the joker seem sympathetic in many peoples minds.

    Or the killing joke
    I have never seen a story that makes me look at Joker as a sympathetic villain. Backstories are fun and all. But no matter how tragic a backstory is at a certain point a villain crosses a line and there is just no going back. It doesnt matter what happened to them in the past.
    Favorite teams. Alpha Flight, Avengers, Fantastic Four, West Coast Avengers, Justice Society of America, Legion of Superheroes.

  10. #55
    Spectacular Member Menacer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    I have never seen a story that makes me look at Joker as a sympathetic villain. Backstories are fun and all. But no matter how tragic a backstory is at a certain point a villain crosses a line and there is just no going back. It doesnt matter what happened to them in the past.
    Maybe you didn't...

    Hordes of people sympathize or adore murderous monsters

    https://www.google.com/search?q=wome...=chrome-mobile


    Didnt harley sympathize and adore the joker?

  11. #56
    Incredible Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Menacer View Post
    Yet some how Joaquin Phoenix manages to make the joker seem sympathetic in many peoples minds.

    Or the killing joke
    I don’t care for the Joker as a character, nor do I like the film, or The Killing Joke. In regards to The Killing Joke that backstory is implied to all be made up so even there the story makes it clear it’s not an excuse for his actions.

    And while I’m sick of the character and his overexposure, DC has at least kept him as a villain rather than try to turn him into an anti-hero like with Quinn.

  12. #57
    Spectacular Member Menacer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    I don’t care for the Joker as a character, nor do I like the film, or The Killing Joke. In regards to The Killing Joke that backstory is implied to all be made up so even there the story makes it clear it’s not an excuse for his actions.

    And while I’m sick of the character and his overexposure, DC has at least kept him as a villain rather than try to turn him into an anti-hero like with Quinn.
    I dont like the film either, and dislike the killing joke and his lame back story
    ...

    But thats not the point

  13. #58
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    A lot of women see Harley Quinn as a Feminist and empowerment symbol. I ask "Why?! Oh Lord, Why?".

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwazer07 View Post
    A lot of women see Harley Quinn as a Feminist and empowerment symbol. I ask "Why?! Oh Lord, Why?".
    I ask the same question when someone says Batman is a role model and a good father.

  15. #60
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    I ask the same question when someone says Batman is a role model and a good father.
    Depends on which version of Batman they're discussing. He's got a longer history and more versions than Harley.

    Since her inception, one version of her (DCAU) gleefully helped psychologically torture a teenage boy and drive him insane. Another (DCEU) assisted in murdering a teenager. Her default setting is assisting in helping the Joker, a psychopath and a terrorist, carry out his crimes.

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