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  1. #31
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    That's easy to say if all you do is read comics, but we're talking pop culture, and in pop culture grit and edge isn't what people are getting, they're getting the bright and cheery MCU. Basically Superman's lighthearted style is the norm. On the one hand that could be good for him, on the other it means he has to compete in his own space. He can't just be "not gritty" and expect people to find it a breath of fresh air. Comic fans are tired of the gritty and edgy and will welcome something new, the movie audience though is already in a bright and hopeful Marvel universe.
    That's a really great point. I agree.

  2. #32
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    I think the global reach of the CW shows shouldn't be underestimated. I can't speak for the US, but they are popular internationally thanks to Netflix and all the various viewing platforms out there.

    There's a reason WB wants to do a Flash movie while the CW show is still airing. It has fans all over the world. If Superman & Lois can reach that kind of global audience, that would be huge

  3. #33
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    I think the global reach of the CW shows shouldn't be underestimated. I can't speak for the US, but they are popular internationally thanks to Netflix and all the various viewing platforms out there.

    There's a reason WB wants to do a Flash movie while the CW show is still airing. It has fans all over the world. If Superman & Lois can reach that kind of global audience, that would be huge
    Ehh, I think that's REALLY overstating things.

    The CW has a moderate presence on Netflix, but it's not highly regarded internationally.
    Last edited by Flash Gordon; 05-24-2020 at 04:56 PM.

  4. #34
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    I think the global reach of the CW shows shouldn't be underestimated. I can't speak for the US, but they are popular internationally thanks to Netflix and all the various viewing platforms out there.

    There's a reason WB wants to do a Flash movie while the CW show is still airing. It has fans all over the world. If Superman & Lois can reach that kind of global audience, that would be huge
    I also think these shows shouldn't be overestimated. They're reach is more limited than I think you may want to admit. Compared to movies, games, and really popular Netflix or HBO streaming shows, the CW stuff is a footnote to the discussion, not a part of it.

  5. #35
    Astonishing Member Yoda's Avatar
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    Eh, Game of Thrones is a footnote now and it was the the biggest show on TV 12 months ago. All pop culture is fleeting. People just like to crap on the CW because it skews younger and has a lot of woman fans. Flash and Riverdale are the #7 & #8 show streaming on Netflix in the US right now.

  6. #36
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    Eh, Game of Thrones is a footnote now and it was the the biggest show on TV 12 months ago. All pop culture is fleeting. People just like to crap on the CW because it skews younger and has a lot of woman fans. Flash and Riverdale are the #7 & #8 show streaming on Netflix in the US right now.
    "A lot of woman fans" is not a reason people criticize the CW. The CW is just a niche market for people whom are already watching all other superhero media. A Superman show should be able to reach a larger audience than just the same crowd who are watching anyway.

    Game of Thrones is not a footnote at all, it made huge money and influenced the mainstream to a HUGE level. Sure, it's over now and people have real lives and don't just discuss media constantly so it's not in daily conversation but that doesn't change anything (it also doesn't help that the consensus is the show had a bad ending). The scope of something like Game of Thrones or Breaking Bad or even genre TV like Doctor Who is just so much larger than anything the CW has.

    We also can't forget that SMALLVILLE started before the CW and was on during a time where TV was still run by timeslots and networks- so it had a much larger staying power.
    Last edited by Flash Gordon; 05-24-2020 at 06:30 PM.

  7. #37
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    A successful CW show these days gets about 1+ million viewers per episode. You're only going to get so far influencing fans with those numbers. And as long as they write the shows the way they do, and are restricted by low budgets, I'm just not ever going to care.

    Anyway, Superman's heyday is probably long done. It was a nice run, but that's life. Bugs ain't king anymore. Neither is Mickey Mouse. You just can't expect the same properties to be the most popular stuff for decades on decades. Maybe Superman could've reigned supreme a little longer with better management, but all things come to an end.

  8. #38
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DochaDocha View Post
    A successful CW show these days gets about 1+ million viewers per episode. You're only going to get so far influencing fans with those numbers. And as long as they write the shows the way they do, and are restricted by low budgets, I'm just not ever going to care.

    Anyway, Superman's heyday is probably long done. It was a nice run, but that's life. Bugs ain't king anymore. Neither is Mickey Mouse. You just can't expect the same properties to be the most popular stuff for decades on decades. Maybe Superman could've reigned supreme a little longer with better management, but all things come to an end.
    I don’t think he needs to be “King” to do well though. Look he’s never going to be the most popular superhero in the world, he’s been deconstructed and turned evil far too often for that to happen. But he can be popular and well liked, more than he is right now. And we’re still getting great Superman stories, so I don’t think he’s tapped out of his potential. I’ll take the TV show because it’s a start. If we get a good movie or a video game, that will do wonders for him that I think will surprise you.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Yeah, the people who state this as a good direction for the character in getting him out there really overestimate the quality and reach of these shows. Superman needs something much more high profile - a big lighthearted bombastic movie like the MCU films or Aquaman, or a game in the same level as the Arkham games, or an HBO expensive high quality series. A CW show right now is just going to be a niche thing for a niche audience for a certain demographic.
    Id take an animated movie that celebrates the mythos like Into The Spider-verse or the LEGO Batman movie.

    There are so many outside universe takes on the Superman mythos in movies from Megamind to Brightburn, youd think the TPTB of Superman would be able to do something with the property.

  10. #40
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Evans View Post
    I’d take an animated movie that celebrates the mythos like Into The Spider-verse or the LEGO Batman movie.

    There are so many outside universe takes on the Superman mythos in movies from Megamind to Brightburn, you’d think the TPTB of Superman would be able to do something with the property.
    I’d kill to get an animated adaption of Superman Smashes The Klan in theaters.

  11. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    "A lot of woman fans" is not a reason people criticize the CW. The CW is just a niche market for people whom are already watching all other superhero media. A Superman show should be able to reach a larger audience than just the same crowd who are watching anyway.

    Game of Thrones is not a footnote at all, it made huge money and influenced the mainstream to a HUGE level. Sure, it's over now and people have real lives and don't just discuss media constantly so it's not in daily conversation but that doesn't change anything (it also doesn't help that the consensus is the show had a bad ending). The scope of something like Game of Thrones or Breaking Bad or even genre TV like Doctor Who is just so much larger than anything the CW has.

    We also can't forget that SMALLVILLE started before the CW and was on during a time where TV was still run by timeslots and networks- so it had a much larger staying power.
    To be fair, if Game of Thrones (even with the legacy tainting final season) and Breaking Bad are your measuring stick, I’m not sure how well any superhero show fare overall. I mean, the superhero genre are the kings of movies right now, sure. And there are a lot of tv superhero shows coming out right now (like it or not btw, the success of early CW cape shows like Arrow are a big reason for that) but are any of them big cultural phenomenons like Better Call Saul, The Mandalorian or Stranger Things? None of my co-workers have ever heard of Doom Patrol, Legion or the Netflix Daredevil show, and those are the most acclaimed ones! I feel like the Disney Plus shows have a good chance of changing that, given the success of the Mandalorian and the brand of the MCU. But those haven’t come out yet.
    Anyway of course most/all your saying about the budget and writing of the CW is fair. But I still felt the need to point out that Superhero tv isn’t mainstream the way Superhero movies are. Not yet anyway.
    Last edited by OpaqueGiraffe17; 05-24-2020 at 09:59 PM.

  12. #42
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    Eh, Game of Thrones is a footnote now and it was the the biggest show on TV 12 months ago. All pop culture is fleeting. People just like to crap on the CW because it skews younger and has a lot of woman fans. Flash and Riverdale are the #7 & #8 show streaming on Netflix in the US right now.
    I disagree - I consider myself one if those younger fans (33, I'm a millennial), and everything needs women fans. But the CW is a small, small, small piece of the larger pop culture puzzle. It's not a non-entity, but it's the smallest, quietest guy in the room. And I don't get what Game of Thrones not being as talked about now matters - of course pop culture is fleeting, one of the reasons why personally I don't care one way or the other about pop culture. But if you want to make an impact on pop culture, the CW ain't it.

  13. #43
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Evans View Post
    Id take an animated movie that celebrates the mythos like Into The Spider-verse or the LEGO Batman movie.

    There are so many outside universe takes on the Superman mythos in movies from Megamind to Brightburn, youd think the TPTB of Superman would be able to do something with the property.
    I wouldn't mind that, an animated film isn't the wrong way to go - but I'd still want them to try and make live action work myself. Both live action and animated theatricals would be nice.

  14. #44
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Animated theatrical with bradbird at the helm would be a dream come true.
    I have to ask, what do you guys think of the news that one punch man getting a movie? If it becomes a hit and is good(i doubt it. Hollywood sucks with manga adaptation). How would that impact superman as character?
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 05-24-2020 at 10:53 PM.

  15. #45
    Astonishing Member Soubhagya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    I don’t think he needs to be “King” to do well though. Look he’s never going to be the most popular superhero in the world, he’s been deconstructed and turned evil far too often for that to happen. But he can be popular and well liked, more than he is right now. And we’re still getting great Superman stories, so I don’t think he’s tapped out of his potential. I’ll take the TV show because it’s a start. If we get a good movie or a video game, that will do wonders for him that I think will surprise you.
    I agree with you on that. I keep hoping. But as time passes i think Superman is going to become more and more obscure. I would be fine if the guy has some positive presence. There's lot of potential.

    The only thing people want to do is tell an origin, or a story where he goes evil, or see him fight someone like Batman or Shazam or whatever.

    I find this funny. I was watching some clips from Supergirl starring Brandon Routh. It was a 5-10 minute video having all scenes with Brandon Routh. It begins in a promising note. But then Luthor shows up, makes him evil and he fights Superman from the show. Even in a short role that's what you do? In the season where Superman first showed up in Supergirl, the first two episodes were well received. But guess what? He turns evil and fights Supergirl in the next appearance. Its pathetic. People lack any imagination and straight up go to these three tropes. Origin, evil, versus.

    In other media that's what they are doing. How can you like a character if that's all you see? I have less hopes from Superman and Lois. But at least they are going to try something. I really really hope that show turns out good. It may not be much. But a win is a win.
    Last edited by Soubhagya; 05-25-2020 at 05:30 AM.

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