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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post

    Superman's popularity isn't guaranteed just because he was popular once, he needs a little stewardship if he is going to survive another few decades.
    Agreed. Like I talked about in my original post, I think his popularity seems to be linked to the general anxiety that society is going through, particularly in America. However, America has become so fractured and beaten down by the last few years, there's no guarantee that the next generation is going to be all that interested in Superman because he won't mean anything to them in a society overflowing with superheroes that aren't shackled to decades of older interpretations.

    I'm hoping that someone strikes gold with the character though. I think there's still a lot of meat left on those bones.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electricmastro View Post
    Not to disrespect Superman, but aren’t there other superheroes that can bring hopeful optimistic fun to the masses? I’m certainly sure he’s not alone on that like how he was back in 1938, or is he still?
    This would be a big hurdle creators are going to have to deal with, yes. The new Stargirl TV show is a good example of this, at least so far.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Look - I don't care. You think the CW is a huge deal to pop culture presence, that's fine by me,I just disagree with it. Does anyone have anything to say on the topic that isn't about the CW's importance?
    I don't think the CW is a huge deal, I just don't think it's as unimportant as you do. There's plenty of other stuff in this thread that isn't about the CW. Nobody is stopping you from talking about it.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electricmastro View Post
    Yeah, though this is just a costume, I do understand the difference between the tone of this:



    From this:



    And I think this extends to what Marvel does with some of its heroes as well when I say that, with the understanding that real-world politics and social aspects can very much be incorporated into superhero media, I don’t think that means that I should constantly be feeling negative feelings, as valid as it is to talk about said real-world politics and social issues.

    That’s because, after seeing enough Zack Snyder’s take on Superman, it’s in my opinion that Superman... well, leaves me depressed.

    And not depressed in a way that inclines to want to think more about the world and the hope for it. No, depressed in such a way that as if the world that we live in is oppressive and terrible to the point that it isn’t worth living in. Perhaps an over-dramatic opinion, but seeing how I’m sure it’s somewhat relevant here, I suppose I should at least be upfront and honest about it. This isn’t to say that a darker take on Superman is objectively bad either, but as to whether or not it’s for the better of the franchise to continually present Superman in that manner as if flying in dark gray skies is better than flying in bright blue ones, as if flying in bright blue ones is obsolete, is another matter I suppose, regardless of box office returns.
    I respect what Snyder was trying to do with Superman, but it wasn't the right tone or interpretation that audiences wanted to see for the character. To be fair, I think Superman is not an easy character to get right. Many creators have tried and failed to make Superman work.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypestyle View Post
    evolve Clark's occupation-- he was made a TV anchor for a while. In 2020 and beyond, he could stand to do something else besides be a general-assignment print reporter.
    I think they've evolved the Daily Planet into an online news website pretty well in the comics. I think they should push further into the nuts and bolts of what a modern journalist is these days though.

  6. #126
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    I don't think the CW is a huge deal, I just don't think it's as unimportant as you do. There's plenty of other stuff in this thread that isn't about the CW. Nobody is stopping you from talking about it.
    I know - I also talked about my disagreement that his popularity is çonnected to whether times are bright or crappy. Every era has it's share of both light and dark storytelling, so the fluctuations as regards lasting characters come out more as random to me - there were dark stories popular during all the times Superman soared too - look at the hard boiled detective genre that rose around the same time he did.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    I know - I also talked about my disagreement that his popularity is çonnected to whether times are bright or crappy. Every era has it's share of both light and dark storytelling, so the fluctuations as regards lasting characters come out more as random to me - there were dark stories popular during all the times Superman soared too - look at the hard boiled detective genre that rose around the same time he did.
    I think the hard boiled detective genre grew out of all the vets who'd returned from the war disillusioned and traumatized, but that's a different audience than what Superman was speaking to. I'm not sure how popular Superman is among military, either current or former members, these days. I'd be curious to know, actually. I can't find anything about it online. It's all lists of the bottomless number of superheroes who served in the military.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    I think the hard boiled detective genre grew out of ao'd returned from the war disillusioned and traumatized, but that's a different audience than what Superman was speaking to. I'm not sure how popular Superman is among military, either current or former members, these days. I'd be curious to know, actually. I can't find anything about it online. It's all lists of the bottomless number of superheroes who served in the military.
    I don't think it entirely matters who the intended audience was, it was all a part of the zeitgeist and pop culture of the day. There were fans of both, people got the references, it was never just one thing. You can go to every decade and pull some grim stuff and some lighthearted stuff out of that decade's fiction. People sometimes talk about the 90s as the decade where fiction (especially comic books) got grim and gritty and edgy, but the same decade that saw the Death of Superman and the rise of Spawn produced a lot of Disney lighthearted fare, the Rugrats and other Nick shows, and the Furby.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    I don't think it entirely matters who the intended audience was, it was all a part of the zeitgeist and pop culture of the day. There were fans of both, people got the references, it was never just one thing. You can go to every decade and pull some grim stuff and some lighthearted stuff out of that decade's fiction. People sometimes talk about the 90s as the decade where fiction (especially comic books) got grim and gritty and edgy, but the same decade that saw the Death of Superman and the rise of Spawn produced a lot of Disney lighthearted fare, the Rugrats and other Nick shows, and the Furby.
    Yeah, I don't think pop culture is a monolith in which only one type of thing is popular. That said, Morrison was certainly on to something in SuperGods when he pointed out how audiences tend to gravitate towards certain archetypes at different times, which Superman has both benefited and suffered as a result.

  10. #130
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    Yeah, I don't think pop culture is a monolith in which only one type of thing is popular. That said, Morrison was certainly on to something in SuperGods when he pointed out how audiences tend to gravitate towards certain archetypes at different times, which Superman has both benefited and suffered as a result.
    Audiences aren't a monolith either - some people's best of times are others worst of times. I think trying to say people gravitate any which way is a bit of a stretch since people are so different.

  11. #131
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    The “Social Crusader” Superman should be, is what resonates and is relevant through out all times. What needs to be done however, is not shy away from real world issues but instead delve into them. Not be extreme, but in a natural organic way. Here is an article that gives the idea of what to do with Superman:

    DC Comics Used A Superman Quote To Denounce Injustice As Comic Fans Remembered A Police Brutality-Focused Issue

    Over the weekend, Don Lemon commented upon the strangely quiet overall response of Hollywood to the George Floyd protests. Many organizations spoke out in the aftermath of Lemon’s comments, but DC Comics and Warner Bros. have moved beyond offering mere words of support to sprinkle in iconic quotes. In the case of the comic-book publisher, it recruited a quote from one of its most beloved superheroes, whose chest insignia was long presumed to simply be an “S” for Superman, but who declared fairly recently (within the past two decades) that the “letter” is actually a Kryptonian symbol of hope.

    As a precursor to that declaration, a 2001 Action Comics issue (written by Joe Kelly), titled itself, “What’s So Funny About Truth, Justice, & the American Way?” A Superman quote from that issue — “Dreams save us. Dreams lift us up and transform us. And on my soul, I swear… until my dream of a world where dignity, honor and justice becomes the reality we all share — I’ll never stop fighting. Ever.” — has continued to resonate.

    Even though Henry Cavill’s Superman has been, well, tweaked by Zack Snyder in recent movies (we’ll leave the specifics of that discussion for another time), the spirit of Superman is still intact. That spirit remains so powerful, in fact, that DC Comics’ Twitter account saw fit to highlight the 2001 quote to stand against the racial injustices that persist today.


    And in response to DC Comics’ tweet, fans swiftly noted that Superman has indeed stood up on behalf of protesters in the comics, and he’s done so in opposition to police brutality. This went down in a 2015 Action Comics issue (penned by Greg Pak and Aaron Kuder) titled “Hard Truth, Part Two,” in which Superman intervened between police and peaceful protesters. It’s an incredible sight to revisit in light of certain parties’ fretting over whether Superman is viewed as relatable.




    Wouldn’t it be something to see Cavill’s return as Superman (in a future project) take on this type of theme? That’s pure speculation on my part, but it would be a welcome sight to see this Superman arc in cinemas, even as a breakaway in a larger project. That’d certainly be a bold way to stand up and speak out when others choose not to do so.
    https://uproxx.com/movies/superman-d...floyd-protest/

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Audiences aren't a monolith either - some people's best of times are others worst of times. I think trying to say people gravitate any which way is a bit of a stretch since people are so different.
    I don’t think you’re quite understanding what I am saying, so there's not much point in continuing this. Thanks for your time.

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoveStar View Post
    The “Social Crusader” Superman should be, is what resonates and is relevant through out all times. What needs to be done however, is not shy away from real world issues but instead delve into them. Not be extreme, but in a natural organic way. Here is an article that gives the idea of what to do with Superman:

    DC Comics Used A Superman Quote To Denounce Injustice As Comic Fans Remembered A Police Brutality-Focused Issue

    Over the weekend, Don Lemon commented upon the strangely quiet overall response of Hollywood to the George Floyd protests. Many organizations spoke out in the aftermath of Lemon’s comments, but DC Comics and Warner Bros. have moved beyond offering mere words of support to sprinkle in iconic quotes. In the case of the comic-book publisher, it recruited a quote from one of its most beloved superheroes, whose chest insignia was long presumed to simply be an “S” for Superman, but who declared fairly recently (within the past two decades) that the “letter” is actually a Kryptonian symbol of hope.

    As a precursor to that declaration, a 2001 Action Comics issue (written by Joe Kelly), titled itself, “What’s So Funny About Truth, Justice, & the American Way?” A Superman quote from that issue — “Dreams save us. Dreams lift us up and transform us. And on my soul, I swear… until my dream of a world where dignity, honor and justice becomes the reality we all share — I’ll never stop fighting. Ever.” — has continued to resonate.

    Even though Henry Cavill’s Superman has been, well, tweaked by Zack Snyder in recent movies (we’ll leave the specifics of that discussion for another time), the spirit of Superman is still intact. That spirit remains so powerful, in fact, that DC Comics’ Twitter account saw fit to highlight the 2001 quote to stand against the racial injustices that persist today.


    And in response to DC Comics’ tweet, fans swiftly noted that Superman has indeed stood up on behalf of protesters in the comics, and he’s done so in opposition to police brutality. This went down in a 2015 Action Comics issue (penned by Greg Pak and Aaron Kuder) titled “Hard Truth, Part Two,” in which Superman intervened between police and peaceful protesters. It’s an incredible sight to revisit in light of certain parties’ fretting over whether Superman is viewed as relatable.




    Wouldn’t it be something to see Cavill’s return as Superman (in a future project) take on this type of theme? That’s pure speculation on my part, but it would be a welcome sight to see this Superman arc in cinemas, even as a breakaway in a larger project. That’d certainly be a bold way to stand up and speak out when others choose not to do so.
    https://uproxx.com/movies/superman-d...floyd-protest/
    I would love it if Morrison's rough n' rumble jeans & t-shirt Superman got his chance up on the big screen, but I think it's highly unlikely Warner Bros will allow that after Snyder's more deconstructed take failed to excite people. Unfortunately, I think they'll retreat to a more traditional crowd pleasing approach to Superman in order to steady the ship.

    Hope I'm wrong though.

  14. #134
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    I don’t think you’re quite understanding what I am saying, so there's not much point in continuing this. Thanks for your time.
    I think I understood just fine and simply disagreed, but to each their own. And you're welcome.

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    I think I understood just fine and simply disagreed, but to each their own. And you're welcome.
    If that were true, then I wouldn't need to keep clarifying my point, so I must have been doing a poor job explaining myself. No worries.

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