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  1. #241
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    I just knew this reply was going to be posted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    The thing is, we always know who is going to win. Whether Clark is fighting a mugger who has nothing but a knife on him, or an army of higher dimensional cannibal gods from the far side of the Source Wall, at the end of the story the protagonist is going to win. It's the nature of the narrative structure.
    Agreed. 100%. (This is Not my first comic book.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    So yeah, when you hit that first page of "Superman v bank robbers" you know Superman will win. But you also know from the first page of "Superman v Darkseid" who is going to win. It's just a matter of how we get there.
    Agreed. 100%. (This is Not my first comic book.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Now, it's highly unlikely that Clark's going to walk away from the bank robbers bruised and bleeding. They're not a threat to him physically. But so what? There's other ways to hurt him. Maybe an innocent bystander gets hurt in the fray and Clark blames himself. Maybe one of the bank robbers is a 14 year old kid and despite all of Clark's efforts to save him the kid refuses help and just *wants* to be bad. Maybe somebody's safety deposit box gets destroyed in the chaos and the owner tries to sue Superman. There's tons of ways to give the story real stakes and put some pain on Clark without him actually losing or getting physically hurt.
    You make an excellent argument. I am Not disagreeing that his could be a great story. It's simply a story I have no interest in reading.

    I have no desire to read a story about Superman versus bank-robbers...or Prankster...or Puzzler...or Toyman...(or a natural disaster...or a one-shot giant monster...or a one-shot alien)...or Lex Luthor (largely because Lex has been overused for decades)!

    If the protagonist was Batman or Nightwing, I might be interested. I can pretend there is more threat in the later than the former and I find that more enjoyable. This is also the reason I think it's easier to create villains for Batman than Superman.

  2. #242
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpideyCeo View Post
    ^ Either way its not compelling reading or exciting to set up a mediorce premesis of superman being inconvienced by something beneath his beyond human concept of the ubermensh. Plus superman has super intelligence like batman, taking on petty crime tatically on the same level as batman is sometimes, just add physical god capabilites and awareness than the story becomes a bad one when you have to challenge supes without utilizing his established fundamental compentance hes aquired in previous stories in the past.

    Emotionally, superman is always supposed to be the best of the best when it comes to being prepared for the worst.
    Again, everything you just said could be leveled at Superman Smashes the Klan. Yet look how amazing that turned out. No one is saying Superman must take on bank robbers in a story, just that it could be done and done incredibly well. If fighting unpowered racist scumbags can provide such a good story, then obviously foes who are a pure physical threat to Superman is not a must for a good Superman story.

  3. #243
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scary harpy View Post
    I just knew this reply was going to be posted.



    Agreed. 100%. (This is Not my first comic book.)



    Agreed. 100%. (This is Not my first comic book.)



    You make an excellent argument. I am Not disagreeing that his could be a great story. It's simply a story I have no interest in reading.

    I have no desire to read a story about Superman versus bank-robbers...or Prankster...or Puzzler...or Toyman...(or a natural disaster...or a one-shot giant monster...or a one-shot alien)...or Lex Luthor (largely because Lex has been overused for decades)!

    If the protagonist was Batman or Nightwing, I might be interested. I can pretend there is more threat in the later than the former and I find that more enjoyable. This is also the reason I think it's easier to create villains for Batman than Superman.
    Fair enough, it's a story you have no interest in - as long as we can agree that doesn't forbid it from being an incredibly great story that others are interested in reading.

  4. #244
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Just a thought I had while we're talking about stories we have no interest in - to me I have neither interest or disinterest in Superman vs bank robbers. But the same thing is true for your generic Superman vs Darkseid or Brainiac or Zod or Lex or Bizarro or any other rogue you can name story. Superman vs anyone just doesn't grab my interest for a millisecond any more, we've seen it all. What grabs my interest as a Superman fan is how the writer plans to tell that story, what is going to be different about it from the million Superman vs stories of the past, and how well it is executed. Superman fights some incredible foe doesn't grab my attention - the promise of an incredible story however does. When Superman is in a well written story that I love, there's nothing better to me as a fan. Give me one or two of those every couple years and I'm a pretty happy and content Superman fan (at least on the book front).

  5. #245
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scary harpy View Post
    I just knew this reply was going to be posted.
    Glad I didnt disappoint then.

    You make an excellent argument. I am Not disagreeing that his could be a great story. It's simply a story I have no interest in reading.
    And that's cool. I myself have zero interest in seeing Batman fight higher level super human threats. A sewer dwelling crocodile man, or a immortal eco-terrorist, or plant manipulating femme fatale, sure. Anything more "super" than that, and I'm out. But stories where Batman tackles high scale threats *can* be done well. I just have no interest in them, as you apparently have no interest in the inverse with Clark.

    I'm just pointing out that those stories *can* be done well. And apparently you agree. So....drinks all around?
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  6. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Fair enough, it's a story you have no interest in - as long as we can agree that doesn't forbid it from being an incredibly great story that others are interested in reading.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Glad I didnt disappoint then.



    And that's cool. I myself have zero interest in seeing Batman fight higher level super human threats. A sewer dwelling crocodile man, or a immortal eco-terrorist, or plant manipulating femme fatale, sure. Anything more "super" than that, and I'm out. But stories where Batman tackles high scale threats *can* be done well. I just have no interest in them, as you apparently have no interest in the inverse with Clark.

    I'm just pointing out that those stories *can* be done well. And apparently you agree. So....drinks all around?
    We're all agreed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Just a thought I had while we're talking about stories we have no interest in - to me I have neither interest or disinterest in Superman vs bank robbers. But the same thing is true for your generic Superman vs Darkseid or Brainiac or Zod or Lex or Bizarro or any other rogue you can name story. Superman vs anyone just doesn't grab my interest for a millisecond any more, we've seen it all. What grabs my interest as a Superman fan is how the writer plans to tell that story, what is going to be different about it from the million Superman vs stories of the past, and how well it is executed. Superman fights some incredible foe doesn't grab my attention - the promise of an incredible story however does. When Superman is in a well written story that I love, there's nothing better to me as a fan. Give me one or two of those every couple years and I'm a pretty happy and content Superman fan (at least on the book front).
    fair enough.

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