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  1. #106
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    I mean, no I don't think Berlanti Productions is trying to produce something of huge merit. I think they got the rights to use Superman and they're putting something out. It isn't anything more than that. That's fine, too- not everything has to be high art. I'm just here talking about it because Superman is a character I care about.

    I'd also rather a bunch of creators were out there trying their best to put together a Superman joint, but that's not what's happening. All we're getting is a show on the CW. That's the state of Big Blue in popular culture right now.
    The utter cynicism of this comment is pretty staggering, but I am clearly not going to change your mind here. I genuinely hope you get to see the kind of Superman story you want.

    And watch Spiderverse while you are waiting. It's easily the best superhero film in decades.

  2. #107
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    The utter cynicism of this comment is pretty staggering, but I am clearly not going to change your mind here. I genuinely hope you get to see the kind of Superman story you want.

    And watch Spiderverse while you are waiting. It's easily the best superhero film in decades.
    It's a business. As much as I'd love to vibe with you that these are being created out of the kindness of peoples' hearts- it's not the case. Doesn't mean something great can't be born out of that, it just hasn't in the case of the current slew of CW joints- which all have the same exact production values.

    I've already gotten a lot of Superman stuff I like. I'm a fan of comic books as a medium, not so much superheroes. I have a soft spot for Superman for the kind of thematics employed and the narratives he tends to find himself in. Large scale adventure and exploration. I'd rather see new stuff that appeals to others beyond the fandom that's already in place. Which is why I'd like to see more all ages material, more fun and colourful adventures with a character who's context is slightly updated for 2020. Material that reaches beyond the same audience that everything seems to be marketed towards.

    I agree to disagree. Not sure why you need to "change my mind" when we're just discussing the topic- but I do hope you enjoy the new show.
    Last edited by Flash Gordon; 05-27-2020 at 04:20 PM.

  3. #108
    Extraordinary Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwazer07 View Post
    There is also a divide in how people view Superman. Some people want old school Boy Scout, while Snyder fans love Super Jesus. The next Superman movie will be criticized no matter what.
    How about we have neither? Because as far as i am concerned that's the same deal.

  4. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    How about we have neither? Because as far as i am concerned that's the same deal.
    That is why Superman has no upcoming movie. No one has a good idea for him. Right now we have neither.

  5. #110
    Extraordinary Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwazer07 View Post
    That is why Superman has no upcoming movie. No one has a good idea for him. Right now we have neither.
    And that's better than him being portrayed as the naive, boyscout, savior on the big screen, again. I am willing to wait.

  6. #111
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soubhagya View Post
    Well. Yeah. The similarities are too many to be coincidental. Which is supporting my observation. Kids seem to enjoy Superman more easily then adults do.



    I had seen only one Lois Lane. It was cute. Since your post i have seen a couple of Shazam ones. They are worth watching. Watching that kind of makes me pine for Clark Kent Superboy. Wasn't Superboy created so that kids could dig more into Superman as he's young like them? You can't do that with Batman. So, you have Robin.

    That episode with Shazam flying to solve a mathematical problem for the exam, using real trains was fun. I don't remember the exact story or the issue of Superboy but i enjoyed it. Essentially, Clark travels to the past and sees history for real. Maybe Clark Kent Superboy is something which should make a comeback. Maybe only in stories targeted at kids.

    I think Jimmy Olsen could be perfect. And i think the Silver Age Superman could work really well too. Remember, those stories were targeted at eight year old kids. And that was the time Superman was most successful in comics, before Marvel came and changed the game by targeting more older kids and teenagers.
    Jimmy Olsen is the key! He's what you build around, something tender and beautiful with a lot of Silver Age elements. A touch of Star Trek and Doctor Who. Clark Kent and Superman can both be a part of Jimmy's life, and thus we see them as separate entities (yet know they're the same). Mix in real world concepts and problems, just under the vein of sci-fi fantasy. Jimmy should be a real dude with Real Dude woes, just on a huge cosmic scale cause his best bro is Superman.

    I'm glad you dug the SHAZAM shorts, and took my recommendation! I'm still not sure why that isn't an actual series. Seems perfect, and the SHAZAM flick is fresh on the mind.

  7. #112
    Extraordinary Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    Jimmy Olsen is the key! He's what you build around, something tender and beautiful with a lot of Silver Age elements. A touch of Star Trek and Doctor Who. Clark Kent and Superman can both be a part of Jimmy's life, and thus we see them as separate entities (yet know they're the same). Mix in real world concepts and problems, just under the vein of sci-fi fantasy. Jimmy should be a real dude with Real Dude woes, just on a huge cosmic scale cause his best bro is Superman.

    I'm glad you dug the SHAZAM shorts, and took my recommendation! I'm still not sure why that isn't an actual series. Seems perfect, and the SHAZAM flick is fresh on the mind.
    I also vote for bibbowski.

  8. #113
    Astonishing Member Electricmastro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    For a little while, it seemed like Superman was becoming viewed as increasingly outdated by the larger popular culture. However, with the state of the world becoming more and more dire, it seems that people are once again hungry for the kind of hopeful optimistic fun and adventure that Superman brings with him.
    Not to disrespect Superman, but arenít there other superheroes that can bring hopeful optimistic fun to the masses? Iím certainly sure heís not alone on that like how he was back in 1938, or is he still?

  9. #114
    Extraordinary Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electricmastro View Post
    Not to disrespect Superman, but aren’t there other superheroes that can bring hopeful optimistic fun to the masses? I’m certainly sure he’s not alone on that like how he was back in 1938, or is he still?
    There were tons of swashbuckling heroes back in 1938 as well. Its not like the guy had no competition. Zatara himself debuted wth the dude.

  10. #115

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    evolve Clark's occupation-- he was made a TV anchor for a while. In 2020 and beyond, he could stand to do something else besides be a general-assignment print reporter.

  11. #116
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    Unfortunately, the comics comprise the smallest amount of Superman's pop culture presence.

    Again, it doesn't really matter whether the CW shows are niche or not. Everything is niche these days. There are simply too many forms of entertainment out there vying for people's attention for anything to dominate. Very, very few things in pop culture enjoy popularity. Things like the MCU are magical unicorns that only appear once and awhile. They are not normal anymore and I don't expect them to be.

    My larger point is that the more Superman is out there, in many different mediums and with many different interpretations, that's a good thing for the character. I'm happy that Snyder will get to finish his overly dour Superman Trilogy. I'm also happy that the YA audience will get another CW superhero soap opera to watch. I think the Injustice games are a lot of fun and look forward to seeing them push even further into the Multiverse stuff so we get even more versions of Superman in there who aren't evil. I think DC Super-Pets could be great, too. I wish Justice League Action had continued, but it's still out there on YouTube, ranking up new views everyday.

    The more Superman that's out there, the better.
    Look - I don't care. You think the CW is a huge deal to pop culture presence, that's fine by me,I just disagree with it. Does anyone have anything to say on the topic that isn't about the CW's importance?

  12. #117
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypestyle View Post
    evolve Clark's occupation-- he was made a TV anchor for a while. In 2020 and beyond, he could stand to do something else besides be a general-assignment print reporter.
    This really needs to be done.

  13. #118
    Astonishing Member Electricmastro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    However, as the broken promises of the 60s gave way to the jaded cynicism of the late 70s, Superman again became suddenly relevant again because he was such a cheerfully bright and uncompromised hero in a world seemingly overrun with corruption and moral bankruptcy.

    The darker, more brooding Superman of Zack Snyder
    Yeah, though this is just a costume, I do understand the difference between the tone of this:



    From this:



    And I think this extends to what Marvel does with some of its heroes as well when I say that, with the understanding that real-world politics and social aspects can very much be incorporated into superhero media, I donít think that means that I should constantly be feeling negative feelings, as valid as it is to talk about said real-world politics and social issues.

    Thatís because, after seeing enough Zack Snyderís take on Superman, itís in my opinion that Superman... well, leaves me depressed.

    And not depressed in a way that inclines to want to think more about the world and the hope for it. No, depressed in such a way that as if the world that we live in is oppressive and terrible to the point that it isnít worth living in. Perhaps an over-dramatic opinion, but seeing how Iím sure itís somewhat relevant here, I suppose I should at least be upfront and honest about it. This isnít to say that a darker take on Superman is objectively bad either, but as to whether or not itís for the better of the franchise to continually present Superman in that manner as if flying in dark gray skies is better than flying in bright blue ones, as if flying in bright blue ones is obsolete, is another matter I suppose, regardless of box office returns.

  14. #119
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    It's a business. As much as I'd love to vibe with you that these are being created out of the kindness of peoples' hearts- it's not the case. Doesn't mean something great can't be born out of that, it just hasn't in the case of the current slew of CW joints- which all have the same exact production values.

    I've already gotten a lot of Superman stuff I like. I'm a fan of comic books as a medium, not so much superheroes. I have a soft spot for Superman for the kind of thematics employed and the narratives he tends to find himself in. Large scale adventure and exploration. I'd rather see new stuff that appeals to others beyond the fandom that's already in place. Which is why I'd like to see more all ages material, more fun and colourful adventures with a character who's context is slightly updated for 2020. Material that reaches beyond the same audience that everything seems to be marketed towards.

    I agree to disagree. Not sure why you need to "change my mind" when we're just discussing the topic- but I do hope you enjoy the new show.
    I hope I enjoy it too I'm not sure it necessarily will be my cup of tea as I'm not really the target audience for these shows, but I'm looking forward to seeing what they do with the concept. I mean, even Lois & Clark had a few good ideas before it got terrible.

    The only thing I'm trying to change your mind on is your cynical view of all the people who work so hard making these shows. Frankly, I think you're being overly dismissive of them because they aren't to your taste. Nobody said they're doing it out of the kindness of their hearts, but a lot of these producers, writers and crew are genuine fans of these characters who love them dearly and don't want to see them mistreated. However, that isn't to say that they aren't professionals doing a job to pay their bills or that their attempts to craft compelling stories for them are always successful, either.

    I get that the CW shows aren't for you, nor are they really for me. I'm assuming that you, like myself, are a middle aged man. These shows are written for tweens, teens and young adults. We're not the audience for these shows, but that doesn't mean that the people making them are just putting out middling art because their corporate overlords told them to.

  15. #120
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    I hope I enjoy it too I'm not sure it necessarily will be my cup of tea as I'm not really the target audience for these shows, but I'm looking forward to seeing what they do with the concept. I mean, even Lois & Clark had a few good ideas before it got terrible.

    The only thing I'm trying to change your mind on is your cynical view of all the people who work so hard making these shows. Frankly, I think you're being overly dismissive of them because they aren't to your taste. Nobody said they're doing it out of the kindness of their hearts, but a lot of these producers, writers and crew are genuine fans of these characters who love them dearly and don't want to see them mistreated. However, that isn't to say that they aren't professionals doing a job to pay their bills or that their attempts to craft compelling stories for them are always successful, either.

    I get that the CW shows aren't for you, nor are they really for me. I'm assuming that you, like myself, are a middle aged man. These shows are written for tweens, teens and young adults. We're not the audience for these shows, but that doesn't mean that the people making them are just putting out middling art because their corporate overlords told them to.
    LOL I am not a middle aged man, no. Gender and age don't have much to do with what we're talking about.

    I don't really care to discuss the intentions behind these shows. My point was just that a CW show doesn't bode well for the character of Superman, that's it. I get that you like them, that's fine.

    Superman's popularity isn't guaranteed just because he was popular once, he needs a little stewardship if he is going to survive another few decades.
    Last edited by Flash Gordon; 05-29-2020 at 12:37 PM.

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