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  1. #1
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    Default Why did many people whine about the Black Panther armbar Surfer thing





    Surfer allowed T'challa to do that to him....

  2. #2
    Astonishing Member Riv86672's Avatar
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    Because it was silly.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riv86672 View Post
    Because it was silly.
    but Mcduffie explained what was happening

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Marvel/comm...anther_silver/

  4. #4
    Astonishing Member Riv86672's Avatar
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    Because it was silly and explained.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riv86672 View Post
    Because it was silly and explained.
    i guess one could argue that T'challa would of been smarter to actually believe he got a legit armlock on the Surfer

  6. #6
    Extraordinary Member JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riv86672 View Post
    Because it was silly and explained.
    Agreed. The next event should feature a major setting of the record straight when it comes to cosmically powered "OP" characters versus their street level compatriots. I'm against hero vs. hero battles, but the street levels have it coming. No more PIS, no deus ex interventions. Just straight facts about what would really happen if Cap, Falcon, Black Widow, Daredevil, Black Panther, Silver Sable, or whomever faced off with Silver Surfer, Sentry, the Hulk, Hyperion, Gladiator, Phoenix, etc. It shouldn't take more than a page or two at most.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    Agreed. The next event should feature a major setting of the record straight when it comes to cosmically powered "OP" characters versus their street level compatriots. I'm against hero vs. hero battles, but the street levels have it coming. No more PIS, no deus ex interventions. Just straight facts about what would really happen if Cap, Falcon, Black Widow, Daredevil, Black Panther, Silver Sable, or whomever faced off with Silver Surfer, Sentry, the Hulk, Hyperion, Gladiator, Phoenix, etc. It shouldn't take more than a page or two at most.
    People would start crying that the latter group are "too overpowered." It's like a narrative tug of war, except the street-levelers have been winning for more than a decade.

  8. #8
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    I think the problem was the execution.

    The on panel explanation of it wasn't that Surfer was "allowing" BP to do it, but rather that he was able to do it because of his humanoid physique (which is complete BP as he should be able to escape that a million different ways). Plus the art portrays him as struggling.

    We we had a thought bubble of Surfer thinking he would allow it, or escaping it on his own rather than being freed, the message would have been much clearer and it would be less of an issue.

    That aside, I think it had more legs because it's somewhat funny that a cosmic being is being restrained by an arm bar. Even when you say it outloud, it just silly. And that gives it more legs than if it were a simple punch or whatever. It's a bit more comical. You're almost waiting for T'Challa to try a figure 4 leg lock on Galactus when he shows up.

  9. #9
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Random4 View Post
    i guess one could argue that T'challa would of been smarter to actually believe he got a legit armlock on the Surfer
    I can't help but think if they had thought bubbles, SUrfer would be wondering WFT T'Challa is talking about. It literally made no sense whatsoever for BP to think even for a second that he could actually hold him in an armbar. Physical strength aside, there's a gazillion different ways he could have gotten out of that with no effort whatsoever.

    But that's ultimately the challenge of writing characters who are on different levels. It's not impossible of course... but it takes a bit of effort to really sell it. Later in the story when T'Challa defeats Surfer with Dooms tech, that's 100% legit and no one to my knowledge raised an eye brow to that. It IS possible for BP to defeat the SS... just not with an arm bar. It's stupid for T'Challa to think he can.

  10. #10
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    Merged sentry got push by okoye.

    Karate kid stuns pre-crisis superboy.
    (This superboy is stronger then current canon superman)

    Cosmic thor gets knock down by rocks from ape like aliens with no super strength.

    Thor gets stun by mantis.

    A skrull with low super strength was able to get captain marvel in a head lock or something like that and jessica jones freed her.

    Batman has been known to flip over kryptonians or superman.
    I heard superman was knock out by a gas station explosion once.
    Mantis (Earth-616)
    Abilities
    Master Martial Artist: Mantis has extraordinary ability in the martial arts that have been developed and perfected over thousands of years. These fighting methods place particular emphasis on the manipulation of pressure points and nerve endings on the bodies of one's opponents. So, by knowing the right areas of the body to strike, Mantis can stun even a being as powerful as Thor even though she herself has no superhuman strength.
    Silver Sablinova (Earth-616)
    Strength level
    Silver Sable possesses the strength of a normal human woman her age, height, and build who engages in regular intensive exercise and combat. She is shown to be able to jump a dozen feet high, leap in between city buildings, and lift grown men off the ground by the collar and throw them several feet.

    Weaknesses
    Despite nearing the peak of human physical and mental ability, Silver Sable is still only human. She must constantly watch for knives and gunfire, and can be easily overwhelmed by a truly superhuman opponent.



    The Wrong Side: Black Panther vs. Silver Surfer
    https://www.cbr.com/the-wrong-side-b...silver-surfer/


    The Wrong Side: Venom vs. Superman | CBR
    https://www.cbr.com/the-wrong-side-venom-vs-superman/
    Last edited by mace11; 05-25-2020 at 11:14 AM.

  11. #11
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    Karate Kid
    Val is immensely strong for a normal human, able to defeat Daxamites and Kryptonians at times.

    He is very fast, able to dodge lightning and lasers.

    Karate Kid has no super powers, yet he is master of every form of martial arts to have been developed up to the 30th Century.

    He also possesses the ability to sense the weakest spot in an object. His skill in hand-to-hand combat is seemingly superhuman, allowing him to simulate super-strength blows.

    His prowess was so high that he was able to take on Superboy when he auditioned for the Legion of Superheroes. Val Armorr is the youngest warrior ever to earn the title Samurai.

    The computer in the Fortress of Solitude has him ranked as a class 15 whereas Batman is only ranked as a class 12. Although this rating was given by Superman, who Batman loved to prove wrong.

    Last edited by mace11; 05-25-2020 at 11:02 AM.

  12. #12
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Random4 View Post
    but Mcduffie explained what was happening

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Marvel/comm...anther_silver/
    I think ultimately the problem is you needed to ignore the on panel explanation and read the author's explanation on the internet to buy the scene.

    So yeah ... the execution was a bit off.

  13. #13
    Extraordinary Member Holt's Avatar
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    Like most controversies related to comics, the loudest whiners never actually read the story and are bitching about something they learned secondhand. Surfer literally says a few pages later that he allowed T'Challa to get the drop on him and could've broken free and obliterated him any time he wanted to.

  14. #14
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holt View Post
    Like most controversies related to comics, the loudest whiners never actually read the story and are bitching about something they learned secondhand. Surfer literally says a few pages later that he allowed T'Challa to get the drop on him and could've broken free and obliterated him any time he wanted to.
    I read the book, and it makes no sense.

    BP should be smart enough to KNOW that he can't hold SS in an arm bar. But instead he's threatening to break Surfers arm if Surfer doesn't submit. It makes BOTH look bad. It makes Surfer look weak and T'Challa (to anyone who has an understanding of Surfers power) look stupid for having no idea whatsoever about what the Surfer can do. Or it makes the author look bad if teh author doesn't know... either way, it's just a bad scene that doesn't make sense.

    Which in all fairness isn't that uncommon for the Surfer. There are MANY MANY times writers water him down ... when you're as powerful as him I suppose that just comes with the territory. But it's bad timing for a Surfer fan since it happens immediately after he got a power upgrade. We have the most powerful version of Surfer we've ever had, this happens. That's the downside of being a fan of powerful characters... you need to get used to this sort of thing.

  15. #15
    Death of Time Cronus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    I read the book, and it makes no sense.

    BP should be smart enough to KNOW that he can't hold SS in an arm bar. But instead he's threatening to break Surfers arm if Surfer doesn't submit. It makes BOTH look bad. It makes Surfer look weak and T'Challa (to anyone who has an understanding of Surfers power) look stupid for having no idea whatsoever about what the Surfer can do. Or it makes the author look bad if teh author doesn't know... either way, it's just a bad scene that doesn't make sense.

    Which in all fairness isn't that uncommon for the Surfer. There are MANY MANY times writers water him down ... when you're as powerful as him I suppose that just comes with the territory. But it's bad timing for a Surfer fan since it happens immediately after he got a power upgrade. We have the most powerful version of Surfer we've ever had, this happens. That's the downside of being a fan of powerful characters... you need to get used to this sort of thing.
    Well said. Writer's are there to tell stories, often times, along the way the victims are characters that fail to utilize their powers in an "intelligent" way and the fans that read that stuff.
    "Before I met you, I'd go whole days without massacring a bunch of things. Honest."

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