Last edited by Tony Stark; 07-06-2020 at 11:39 PM.
"We live in a world of cowards. We live in a world full of small minds who are afraid. We are ruled by those who refuse to risk anything of their own. Who guard their over bloated paucities of power with money. With false reasoning. With measured hesitance. With prideful, recalcitrant inaction. With hateful invective. With weapons. F@#K these selfish fools and their prevailing world order." Tony Stark
Criminals have never gotten along but that has never stopped them from forming organized crime families and gangs. Why should the truckloads of villains living in NYC be any different?
The Kingpin is an anachronism just like the Hell's Kitchen found in those Daredevil books. Yes, Frank Miller is awesome and the writers all loved his Daredevil run, but it's time to let Kingpin go. The idea that this character is wielding any power in current day Marvel is embarrassing.
Last edited by Anthony W; 07-07-2020 at 12:27 AM.
"The Marvel EIC Chair has a certain curse that goes along with it: it tends to drive people insane, and ultimately, out of the business altogether. It is the notorious last stop for many staffers, as once you've sat in The Big Chair, your pariah status is usually locked in." Christopher Priest
There's been a time or two, but the one people usually refer to is in Secret Wars.
And really? It's not that bad. Spider-man is a lot faster than any of the X-men and stronger than most of them. In Secret Wars, he basically jumped down, caught them off guard and got in a few good licks, and took off.
"The Marvel EIC Chair has a certain curse that goes along with it: it tends to drive people insane, and ultimately, out of the business altogether. It is the notorious last stop for many staffers, as once you've sat in The Big Chair, your pariah status is usually locked in." Christopher Priest
"We live in a world of cowards. We live in a world full of small minds who are afraid. We are ruled by those who refuse to risk anything of their own. Who guard their over bloated paucities of power with money. With false reasoning. With measured hesitance. With prideful, recalcitrant inaction. With hateful invective. With weapons. F@#K these selfish fools and their prevailing world order." Tony Stark
It is that bad, and it was the start of Marvel playing favourites. As far as I could tell it was pretty much Jim Shooter putting the X-Men (and through them, Claremont) in their place. Spider-Man, iirc, tells Wolverine he's a joke to him and bats him away twice, for starters. Yes, Spider-Man should be able to run rings around Wolverine, but he should also be able to do the same for Captain America, Daredevil, and many of his own rogues gallery. He doesn't though, because it needlessly destroys the threat/credibility of characters. NOT that I'm suggesting that Daredevil, say, should be able to hold his own in a fight with Spider-Man, but I think you should generally avoid putting mismatched characters against each other unless there is a real point to it. The point in this case seemed to be to make Spidey look good at the expense of the X-Men, who had become the new stars of Marvel at the time.
It of course led to (a) Spider-Man vs Wolverine miniseries rematch where Spidey practically wets himself when Wolverine comes at him (equally awful, but Wolverine was being heavily pimped-out by Marvel by that time and obviously needed his credibility back), and (b) Claremont quickly taking the X-Men from plucky underdogs to swaggering tough-guys who posed about whilst other characters told the reader just how awesome they were. ****ing disaster as far as I'm concerned, but a predictable response. Heroes need credibility to work as power-fantasies, after all.
Spider-Man historically tends to do better against groups than one on one. Have him fight just one opponent, and it's more even. Having him fight 6 and he starts running rings around him. Captain America and Wolverine do better against Spidey one on one than when they're with their repective teams... doesn't exactly make sense, but it's how Spidey is normally writen.
But I'm in agreement that that the Spider-Man fight with the X-Men in secret wars was okay. He jumped in with the element of surprise, punches several of them, dodged a couple attacks, then ran away without really hurting anyone. Even Xavier recovered from Spider-Mans attack pretty quickly (obviously Spidey was holding back). Everything he did was within his ability to do. He didn't punch out colossus or tank any optic blasts. Yes, it make Spidey look good... but nothing happened which I think we can actually say is outside Spideys actually abilities. So I don't think anyone actually jobbed here.
Also, Secret Wars 5 does basically have the X-Men do the same thing to the villain army. So Shooter gave the X-Men a bit of spotlight, the same way he did with Spiderman in the book.
The problem with that logic is that that kind of solution only matters in a situation where Black Panther is much weaker than his opponent.
A big part of Black Panther (and a lot of other "street-level" characters) is their martial skill, and you're basically telling us that that's completely useless in this scenario. That's why, even if the fight is basically the David dancing around the Goliath, they still have to showcase it.
I honestly dont see the big deal especially considering SS acknowledges he could have broken free.
ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO, THE OMEGA'S OMEGA, BEYOND OMEGA, THE VOICE OF SOL!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!
My thoughts exactly. Never mind strength and invulnerability, it's like Silver Surfer didn't have the Power Cosmic and couldn't have fried T'Challa on the spot if he wanted to. If anyone was in a highly vulnerable state due to proximity, it was T'Challa. The writer should have been forced to rewrite those panels. It doesn't hurt to put a more credible take on things.
I'm going to correct you here. Ever since the OHOTHMU, strength has been measured by the amount of weight pressed, not lifted. I assure you, nobody alive comes near 800 lbs in any form of press.
I'll also point you towards Captain America, who has run a mile in just over a minute, and 5 miles in about 6 minutes. On panel. That is speed more than twice as fast as Usain Bolt in the 100 meters maintained over that distance. In gear not designed for maximum speed.
Actually, OHOTMU entries vary with respect to strength descriptions. For some entries it indicates "press", while for others it states "lift."
And, yes, OHOTMU makes a distinction between "Olympic level athlete" and "peak human" level.
The overarching point here is that however Marvel defines "peak human", it's not synonymous with superhuman. However thin that demarcation is, it's there. And it's there for a reason. Otherwise, Marvel and DC would just come out and establish that characters like Batman and Captain America are superhuman. No one would fault them if they did. But they don't, because it's important to them to perpetuate the nonsensical narrative that ordinary, albeit peak human heroes can unseat gods. Classic themes further juiced up by a hyper suspension of disbelief. It's a tried and true cocktail that bring lovers of street level heroes back time and time again. Can't wait to see Shang Chi knife-hand strike the Uni-Mind, forcing it to explode into all of the Eternals that comprised it. Or has that happened already?