As the JSA returns, how should DC handle the fact that they basically failed?

[scary harpy]

Would it be the JSA who failed…or their descendants?

If the JSA is bound to WW2, then almost all of them would be deceased 75 years later.

But about 25 years after WW2, the children of the JSA (and their foes) should begin their heroic (and villainous) careers.

And about 25 years after that, the grandchildren of the JSA (and their foes) should begin their heroic (and villainous) careers.

Which brings us up to the year 2000:

• We have the JSA comprised mostly of the children and grandchildren of the JSA.
• (Same is true for the Injustice Society of America.)
• There may be an Infinity Incorporated…but there is no upstart Justice League or any Titans yet.

So wouldn’t the next generations just be blamed for everything? (ya know, like normal.)

[Midnighter]

Is Snyder still writing justice league or has he moved on to just dk death metal?

His Justice League run ended on a cliffhanger that continues directly into DK Metal, so that will be the resolution to his JL storyline.

[iron chimp]

To be fair to the OP america is a very different place to it was in the 50s or even the 80s. What that america is though.. thats very hard to define. But it does play into what one can expect super powered humans to do today.

[Noodle]

To be fair to the OP america is a very different place to it was in the 50s or even the 80s. What that america is though.. thats very hard to define. But it does play into what one can expect super powered humans to do today.

It is mostly the same place, though. The 1950's had the dawn of the Cold War (we're still talking about Iran and North Korea having nuclear capabilities) as well as the beginning of the Civil Rights movement (equality still being a talked about issue today). Heck, the "boomers" today's youth are rallying against were born in the 1950s.

The 1980's had the AIDS pandemic (we're dealing with a global pandemic currently), the Equal Rights Amendment (equality for Women still a talked about issue today), and Latinos being the largest growing minority in the country (the influx of Latino immigration still being a talked about issue).

[Vordan]

I think it’s a totally fair question to ask, but honestly that sort of thing has been addressed. Yes the JSA failed to solve all the world’s problems, and that’s why they got passed over for the Justice League instead.

yeah his run ended with #39. but according to him that was just the beginning. I would expect to see Snyder on more events and big-name books in the next few years. Apparently he might be writing a Dick Grayson book too

Snyder has said he plans on stepping back from being the helmsman, so I expect him to stay on the sidelines for a while. He’ll still involved with DC but I think his turn as the head writer will be over after Death Metal, which leaves the question of who they will choose to take over.

[Jekyll]

Before anyone pummels me for such inflammatory heresy, please hear me out. Let me start by saying that, in-universe, the JSA certainly saved lots of lives, and did lots of good. That said...

There's been an accepted conceit that the JSA are revered legends, in part because - in-universe, at least - the JSA are regarded as having fought for the world in some of it's darkest hours, and made a better place of it. That conceit has been there since fairly early in the JSA's history (All-Star Comics #10 characterized them as almost Mount-Rushmoresque-Figures 500 years in the future). Roy Thomas really drove the notion home with the role he gave them and the other GA heroes in All-Star Squadron. That conceit really worked from the 1960s-1990s because, from the mainstream US point of view, things at least appeared better than in the past.

True, it looked better to people ignoring rising income inequality, or that non-white-straight-male progress was stalling, or that oppression and fanaticism around the world were rising (especially during the 1990s). Still, from the POV of most of DC's customers, the myth that the world was a better place than in the past was pretty easy to swallow. That encouraged writers to depict the JSA as basking in a very similar glow to that which US citizens sometimes attach to Greatest Generation WWII veterans; these were the people that saved civilization, and helped it to prosper.

That's no longer the world in which many Americans live.

The JSA helped conquer totalitarianism. Except that it never went away in some parts of the world, and has returned with a roar in many others, perhaps even more robust than in 1933.

The JSA smashed criminal empires. Except that gangs not only continue to proliferate in urban centers, but heavily armed "militias" occupy centers of government.

The JSA cast down would-be kings. Except that an ever smaller number of people control most of the world's worth, consigning ever larger numbers of people to more fragile existences.

The JSA fought for and helped assure justice. Except that "justice" seems to be applied differently based on who you are, or where you come from, or what you worship.

So, the JSA today will exist in a world that - to some, at least - doesn't look as bright or optimistic as the world the JSA was fighting for. How should the DCU's populace, then, look upon the JSA?

I haven't read all the JSA that's been published in the last 20 years, but it seems like what I have read has largely ignored this change in backdrop. The 1992 series dealt with this a little bit, and so did Robinson's excellent Golden Age, but very little of what I've read has really taken it head on. The focus of the last few titles were on legacy and supervillain rumbles.

As they're brought into today's world, how should writers and editors depict the JSA's image in a world like ours?

WTF did I just read?
FECDAE6C-2C2F-446A-AE92-2489CB636045.jpg

[Jim Kelly]

According to Paul Levitz, when he was writing the Justice Society of America in ALL-STAR COMICS (and then ADVENTURE COMICS), Earth-Two was a better place than our Earth. They had got rid of apartheid in South Africa and Quebec was a sovereign nation (P.Q. independence was not exactly what I thought a good thing, but Paul thought it was).

Having a different Earth to work with gave Levitz the freedom to do what he wanted with the world. A lot like he did with the Legion.

As far as the age of the heroes goes--I wish people would get over it--there are so many other characters that don't die and stay young and that's accepted. We're only talking about a handful of characters that need to have lived long enough to still be around. If it's on another Earth with its own rules, so much the better.

Anyway, the 1940s stories are more important to me--so if it's a question of whether Jay Garrick should be alive in 1940 or 2020, I opt for the former.

[DrNewGod]

According to Paul Levitz, when he was writing the Justice Society of America in ALL-STAR COMICS (and then ADVENTURE COMICS), Earth-Two was a better place than our Earth. They had got rid of apartheid in South Africa and Quebec was a sovereign nation (P.Q. independence was not exactly what I thought a good thing, but Paul thought it was).

Having a different Earth to work with gave Levitz the freedom to do what he wanted with the world. A lot like he did with the Legion.

As far as the age of the heroes goes--I wish people would get over it--there are so many other characters that don't die and stay young and that's accepted. We're only talking about a handful of characters that need to have lived long enough to still be around. If it's on another Earth with its own rules, so much the better.

Anyway, the 1940s stories are more important to me--so if it's a question of whether Jay Garrick should be alive in 1940 or 2020, I opt for the former.

I do remember near the end of the All-Star Comics 1970s run the thing about Quebec, and that makes sense. Like you say, with an E2 they can present that kind of alternative to the reality in which we live now.

Looking at the responses, I have to admit, me saying "failed" was colossally bad wording. I just can't escape the idea, though, that in a reality similar enough to our own to run an going, some of the JSA would have to feel frustrated at the least. I won't claim this is how every leftover Cold Warrior feels, but a great many of us look at events today and can't help asking ourselves "how did we let it all go so wrong?" David Halberstam's book, The 1950s suggests a lot of WWII vets went through a similar crisis in the 1970s.

[DrNewGod]

Do you tell veterans of WWII that they are failures because fascism and the Nazis are still around, genocides still happen, dictatorships are still in power in several countries, and at one point their country funded terrorists.

I do not. My point is that almost every institution seen as a glorious symbols of The American Way have lost some of their sheen under much needed scrutiny in the last 20-30 years. The JSA has not...

I've had a bit more time to think on your very fair question. As I've said in another reply, using the term "failure" rather than "frustration" was simply a bad idea, and wrong headed, but the JSA in our America (or anything close enough to it to work for an ongoing) is bound to find the way things turned out frustrating.

But your question raises another question that I would wonder about for a modern JSA. Americans (it seems to me) sometimes isolate the existence of WWII vets in the public conciousness to the heroic years. Might the in-universe public of DC do the same thing with the JSA? If so, how would the JSA feel about that?

[Elmo]

I think it’s a totally fair question to ask, but honestly that sort of thing has been addressed. Yes the JSA failed to solve all the world’s problems, and that’s why they got passed over for the Justice League instead.

Snyder has said he plans on stepping back from being the helmsman, so I expect him to stay on the sidelines for a while. He’ll still involved with DC but I think his turn as the head writer will be over after Death Metal, which leaves the question of who they will choose to take over.

It’ll be Bendis

[DrNewGod]

It’ll be Bendis

Gotta say that does not excite me. Bendis can write some good stuff, but I admit it gives me the heebies to think of him writing a disappointed JSA.

[warzon]

And who said the JSA was returning I haven't heard or seen anything about with the exception of the Stargirl tv show.

[Vakanai]

What I want to know is - will they always be tied into WW2? Because eventually every member of the original JSA would have to die of simple old age. Look at our WW2 veterans, there are fewer and fewer left every day. Do we relegate them to just period pieces or what? Double down on the legacy aspect where everyone is a new hero based on an old one? Or do we give them their own earth again where they're just that world's modern heroes - when so many JSA fans are fans of their "place" in history?

[iron chimp]

It is mostly the same place, though. The 1950's had the dawn of the Cold War (we're still talking about Iran and North Korea having nuclear capabilities) as well as the beginning of the Civil Rights movement (equality still being a talked about issue today). Heck, the "boomers" today's youth are rallying against were born in the 1950s.

The 1980's had the AIDS pandemic (we're dealing with a global pandemic currently), the Equal Rights Amendment (equality for Women still a talked about issue today), and Latinos being the largest growing minority in the country (the influx of Latino immigration still being a talked about issue).

I agree for sure.

But there might be one level where ww2 and then communism helped define usa. They stand for abc, we stand for xyz. A clear ideological split. After the fall of communism though things become more blurred

[The no face guy]

Before anyone pummels me for such inflammatory heresy, please hear me out. Let me start by saying that, in-universe, the JSA certainly saved lots of lives, and did lots of good. That said...

There's been an accepted conceit that the JSA are revered legends, in part because - in-universe, at least - the JSA are regarded as having fought for the world in some of it's darkest hours, and made a better place of it. That conceit has been there since fairly early in the JSA's history (All-Star Comics #10 characterized them as almost Mount-Rushmoresque-Figures 500 years in the future). Roy Thomas really drove the notion home with the role he gave them and the other GA heroes in All-Star Squadron. That conceit really worked from the 1960s-1990s because, from the mainstream US point of view, things at least appeared better than in the past.

True, it looked better to people ignoring rising income inequality, or that non-white-straight-male progress was stalling, or that oppression and fanaticism around the world were rising (especially during the 1990s). Still, from the POV of most of DC's customers, the myth that the world was a better place than in the past was pretty easy to swallow. That encouraged writers to depict the JSA as basking in a very similar glow to that which US citizens sometimes attach to Greatest Generation WWII veterans; these were the people that saved civilization, and helped it to prosper.

That's no longer the world in which many Americans live.

The JSA helped conquer totalitarianism. Except that it never went away in some parts of the world, and has returned with a roar in many others, perhaps even more robust than in 1933.

The JSA smashed criminal empires. Except that gangs not only continue to proliferate in urban centers, but heavily armed "militias" occupy centers of government.

The JSA cast down would-be kings. Except that an ever smaller number of people control most of the world's worth, consigning ever larger numbers of people to more fragile existences.

The JSA fought for and helped assure justice. Except that "justice" seems to be applied differently based on who you are, or where you come from, or what you worship.

So, the JSA today will exist in a world that - to some, at least - doesn't look as bright or optimistic as the world the JSA was fighting for. How should the DCU's populace, then, look upon the JSA?

I haven't read all the JSA that's been published in the last 20 years, but it seems like what I have read has largely ignored this change in backdrop. The 1992 series dealt with this a little bit, and so did Robinson's excellent Golden Age, but very little of what I've read has really taken it head on. The focus of the last few titles were on legacy and supervillain rumbles.

As they're brought into today's world, how should writers and editors depict the JSA's image in a world like ours?

You cannot blame the JSA for human nature, they are superheroes not gods. All they can do is fight the evil that existed in their time. Did they help defeat Nazi Germany, yes, did they help take down mob crime bosses in their time, yes.

You can't expect them to stop inequality, the rise of autocracies, the rise in narco drug gangs, or violence on tv, because these are problems of human nature, and in order for them to successfully curb them through the decades, they would have to become tyrants themselves.

So in short, they are not failures, they were quite successful in battling evil during their respected time period.