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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by warzon View Post
    And who said the JSA was returning I haven't heard or seen anything about with the exception of the Stargirl tv show.
    AFAIK, that was the idea at DC, but also AKAIK there hasn't been ANY announced action to restarting the team or indeed launching the team title. And that of course is where the rubber meets the road, until there's a launch statement, the JSA haven't really returned. A few panels here and there in other character's stories don't count for me. And there's no telling now if they plan on going through with a JSA title in the time of COVID.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    Looking at the responses, I have to admit, me saying "failed" was colossally bad wording.
    I think "the J.S.A. failed" perfectly fits the story that Levitz and Staton told where H.U.A.C. (or whatever) demanded they remove their masks and instead they disappeared. They had been trying to create a just society for ten years, but the fact that the government could be overrun by this witch-hunt meant that they had failed. What they did after speaks to that sense of failure.

    The story was called "The Defeat of the Justice Society"--in ADVENTURE COMICS 466 (November-December 1979)--and clearly the irony is that no super criminals could defeat the J.S.A. but their own government could.

    There were certain additions to continuity that just felt right and that was one of them. The Justice Society disappeared for ten years because their world had taken a change for the worse. They came back when Kennedy was the President and they believed they could change the world again. Maybe on their world, Jack Kennedy never died--I don't think it was ever shown who was President, so it's possible.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    What I want to know is - will they always be tied into WW2? Because eventually every member of the original JSA would have to die of simple old age. Look at our WW2 veterans, there are fewer and fewer left every day. Do we relegate them to just period pieces or what? Double down on the legacy aspect where everyone is a new hero based on an old one? Or do we give them their own earth again where they're just that world's modern heroes - when so many JSA fans are fans of their "place" in history?
    Why would they die of old age? Why is it SO hard to accept immortal characters in a genre where they can fly, lift planets, wield magic, run as fast as light....???

    Honestly, to most fans, I don't think it IS a problem; they likely don't even consider it. In fact, reading the Johns' run on JSA, I don't recall ever once thinking, "Well, Alan and Jay and Ted are from back in the WWII day, so how can they be here now beating on villian 'A'? That ruins it for me!" In fact, I don't recall thinking about that at all. Just like I don't constantly wonder how exactly Superman can fly, or why Batman simply isn't shot. I accept it's that sort of universe, and am a lot more willing to accept things like immortality than I maybe would be if there was a reboot of The Godfather, where Don Corleone is a vampire. Though, thinking about it, someone's probably pitching that in Hollywood right about now...

  4. #34
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by achilles View Post
    Why would they die of old age? Why is it SO hard to accept immortal characters in a genre where they can fly, lift planets, wield magic, run as fast as light....???

    Honestly, to most fans, I don't think it IS a problem; they likely don't even consider it. In fact, reading the Johns' run on JSA, I don't recall ever once thinking, "Well, Alan and Jay and Ted are from back in the WWII day, so how can they be here now beating on villian 'A'? That ruins it for me!" In fact, I don't recall thinking about that at all. Just like I don't constantly wonder how exactly Superman can fly, or why Batman simply isn't shot. I accept it's that sort of universe, and am a lot more willing to accept things like immortality than I maybe would be if there was a reboot of The Godfather, where Don Corleone is a vampire. Though, thinking about it, someone's probably pitching that in Hollywood right about now...
    It isn't hard to accept immortal characters - but to my knowledge most if not all if the JSA were depicted as some kind of mortal, and certainly no one wants the whole team to be immortal. So some if not most would age and die, just because how many immortals can you have on one team?

  5. #35
    insulin4all CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by achilles View Post
    Why would they die of old age? Why is it SO hard to accept immortal characters in a genre where they can fly, lift planets, wield magic, run as fast as light....???

    Honestly, to most fans, I don't think it IS a problem; they likely don't even consider it. In fact, reading the Johns' run on JSA, I don't recall ever once thinking, "Well, Alan and Jay and Ted are from back in the WWII day, so how can they be here now beating on villian 'A'? That ruins it for me!" In fact, I don't recall thinking about that at all. Just like I don't constantly wonder how exactly Superman can fly, or why Batman simply isn't shot. I accept it's that sort of universe, and am a lot more willing to accept things like immortality than I maybe would be if there was a reboot of The Godfather, where Don Corleone is a vampire. Though, thinking about it, someone's probably pitching that in Hollywood right about now...
    Alan, Jay, and Ted Grant aren't the problem. For many JSAers, a long life/immortality are easy to accept. For characters like Sandman, Starman, Dr. Midnight, Hourman, etc, it's not. My desire is to see older members who have passed the retirement age but still have stuff to offer. Thoise folks need a time jump to keep them alive but still mature enough to fit the setup the JSA got in Crises on Earth One/Two.

    Comic bookery can certainly come up with a reason to have an "immortal" JSA, but eternally young would make them just another Justice League. Killing off all members but the few already long lived members gives you another league with a few older members who aren't really older

  6. #36
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    Wasnt Green Lanterns youthful age after so many years explained by the fact that his ring helped keep him young? I figured that The Flash would age super fast due to a freakishly high matabalizism.
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  7. #37
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Well, if the goal was to create a perfect, Utopian society then yeah the JSA failed. Ultimately they failed to really make much of a dent even in the US, as the McCarthy trials prove.

    But was the plan to build a perfect society, or just help those in need? I don't feel like the JSA thought so highly of themselves that they expected to cure the world of all its ills.

    In either case, we can always look to the wisdom of Steve Rogers;

    "Oh it's not all bad.

    No polio is good.

    Food's a lot better. We used to boil everything.

    Internet! So helpful! Been reading a lot of that."

    The issue isn't one of heroes not doing enough, the issue is human nature. And that isn't so easily changed, even for people who can fly and shoot lasers out of their ass. And it might be more interesting to consider the stuff the JSA *did* accomplish and save us from. Are you happy that Poland isn't a blackened wasteland where nothing will grow for a thousand years? Thank the JSA for stopping Captain Nazi. Happy that you're not a mindless slave conquering your way across the timestream? Thank the JSA for stopping Per Degaton. Happy that we've made at least *some* headway towards reaching equality? Thank the JSA for doing their part and supporting heroes like Wonder Woman and Amazing Man. Imagine how much worse things would be now if the JSA hadn't been there!

    I mean, even Ghandi and Mandela and MLK ultimately failed to change human nature and usher in a perfect new world. But it'd be ridiculous to say that those great men didn't make a difference. The world is better because of them, even if it's not perfect. I imagine the JSA is much the same; they made a difference. It might not have been THE difference, but the world is better for having the likes of Jay Garrick and Allan Scott in it.

    Sh*t, even Jesus failed to change human nature. It's kinda unfair to expect more from Jay friggin Garrick.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  8. #38
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by achilles View Post
    Why would they die of old age? Why is it SO hard to accept immortal characters in a genre where they can fly, lift planets, wield magic, run as fast as light....???

    Honestly, to most fans, I don't think it IS a problem; they likely don't even consider it. In fact, reading the Johns' run on JSA, I don't recall ever once thinking, "Well, Alan and Jay and Ted are from back in the WWII day, so how can they be here now beating on villian 'A'? That ruins it for me!" In fact, I don't recall thinking about that at all. Just like I don't constantly wonder how exactly Superman can fly, or why Batman simply isn't shot. I accept it's that sort of universe, and am a lot more willing to accept things like immortality than I maybe would be if there was a reboot of The Godfather, where Don Corleone is a vampire. Though, thinking about it, someone's probably pitching that in Hollywood right about now...
    The whole team cannot be immortal.

    There's no fun in that.

  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by warzon View Post
    And who said the JSA was returning I haven't heard or seen anything about with the exception of the Stargirl tv show.
    The JSA and the Legion were restored to DC Comics in Doomsday Clock #12, now if that is still in the DC continuity I don't know and honestly I'm not sure if anybody running DC even knows.
    Last edited by Cyberstrike; 05-26-2020 at 06:34 PM.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCleghorn View Post
    Alan, Jay, and Ted Grant aren't the problem. For many JSAers, a long life/immortality are easy to accept. For characters like Sandman, Starman, Dr. Midnight, Hourman, etc, it's not. My desire is to see older members who have passed the retirement age but still have stuff to offer. Thoise folks need a time jump to keep them alive but still mature enough to fit the setup the JSA got in Crises on Earth One/Two.

    Comic bookery can certainly come up with a reason to have an "immortal" JSA, but eternally young would make them just another Justice League. Killing off all members but the few already long lived members gives you another league with a few older members who aren't really older
    But it all comes down to the big three of the JSA. The others mentioned here simply aren't a problem. DC itself has mostly had the other originals age and die. OG Sandman died, as did OG Hourman for a while, Dr. Midnite died and was replaced, ditto for Mr. Terrific....so without Ted, Jay, and Alan...there's no more age problem since most of the rest, (taking away the Hawks, who are weird that way, and Dr. Fate, who shouldn't count).

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberstrike View Post
    The JSA and the Legion were restored to DC Comics in Doomsday Clock #12, now if that is still in the DC continuity I don't know and honestly I'm not sure if anybody running DC even knows.
    "Restored to continuity" doesn't mean anything. There doesn't seem to be any announced JSA title, and they haven't figured into anything in any way since DDC, where they were hardly the focus, and where they did almost nothing. It seems certain the JSA won't have a title this year, and probably not next either.

  12. #42
    insulin4all CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by achilles View Post
    But it all comes down to the big three of the JSA. The others mentioned here simply aren't a problem. DC itself has mostly had the other originals age and die. OG Sandman died, as did OG Hourman for a while, Dr. Midnite died and was replaced, ditto for Mr. Terrific....so without Ted, Jay, and Alan...there's no more age problem since most of the rest, (taking away the Hawks, who are weird that way, and Dr. Fate, who shouldn't count).
    If the focus is on the big three, you've gone from a JSA team that's firmly identified as a JSA team to a team of mostly legacies. Now how much original a reader wants varies, but for me, too many young characters in theri prime takes away from the JSA concept as it's been for the past nearly 60 years. The legacies are great, but with only a token original presence, the team loses a lot of its distinction.

  13. #43
    Ultimate Member Holt's Avatar
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    I've maintained the problem isn't the JSA members being functionally immortal. As the recent Infinity Inc. thread pointed out, the bigger problem is that their children are all in their late 20s at the oldest, and some are teenagers. I guess this made sense in the 80s and 90s, but it's a bit of a stretch now.

    Did they all wait until their 60s and 70s to start families for some reason?

  14. #44
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    The whole team cannot be immortal.

    There's no fun in that.
    This. Hawkman reincarnates, so really you just need to keep a few core members around. Alan and Kent Nelson (who I'm fine with being Khalid's mentor, not actively Dr. Fate all the time, though I do love Kent) are taken care of from their respective sources of power. The Speed Force can do pretty much anything, so that takes care of Jay. Really, Ted's the only member who it gets dicey with and that nine lives gimmick never worked for me.

    A modern day JSA can do just fine with Hawkman and the big three, and again you only need to justify Ted Grant.

    It's their kids and families that present the most problems, which is why I'm partial to them having spent some time in Ragnarok with their families choosing to come with rather than die slowly without their loved ones. Keeps everything nice and neatly together and you can just have their return be "ten years ago" from present day.

  15. #45
    Ultimate Member Lee Stone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    I do not. My point is that almost every institution seen as a glorious symbols of The American Way have lost some of their sheen under much needed scrutiny in the last 20-30 years. The JSA has not.

    Is that something writers should look at in what is now a much less optimistic America?
    I, myself, hope that it's not held up to a microscope.
    That could easily take a comic I may like and turn it into yet another dreary deconstruction that would just bore me to tears.

    If people want realism, just launch a Minutemen series.
    It would probably sell better than the JSA to the current market, anyway.
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