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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nate Grey View Post
    I've been thinking about this. I don't mind Leto's Joker, but something is missing. And I think I figured out what it is.

    Unless the movie is about the Joker, as in he's the main character, the Joker otherwise is judged, or should be judged, by his interaction with Batman.

    Not Harley. Batman.

    We barely got that in Suicide Squad, cause it wasn't a Batman movie. But somewhere along the line there needed to be a scene with Leto's Joker going toe to toe with Affleck's Batman. But unless something changes, we'll never get that. These movies will not be continued. So Leto's Joker for me will always be in a permanent holding pattern. I feel like he's designed to be in line with what we've seen of Affleck's Batman so far, but...without those two actually interacting, there's no point in seeing more of him. We'll get more of him anyway if/when Ayer makes this cut, but for me that will always be missing.
    Leto's Joker was really badly designed to be against Affleck's Batman. He's more like a minion Batman would kill before he got to the actual Joker. Given how Batman's made in the DCEU he should have been a red smear long before the Suicide Squad movie.

  2. #32
    The Nature Boy AnakinFlair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Comic-Reader Lad View Post
    However, for some reason, their teamup movies all seem to run into one sort of trouble or another: Batman v Superman, Suicide Squad, Justice League, Birds of Prey.

    I liked Batman v Superman, even the theatrical cut, as a solid B+, but this was a step down from the A- I gave Man of Steel because I did see some of the problems people talked about. The dark tone, however, wasn't something that bothered me.

    I think all DC's teamup films had more studio interference than usual in them, and that's why the first 3 all benefited/could benefit from a director's cut.
    It's no secret why they fail. You said it yourself- it's studio interference.

    They hire directors with a vision. They initially support that vision. They allow things to progress to where the movie is shooting or has been shot and is being edited, and then someone from the studio comes along and all of a sudden they don't want that vision anymore. And so the bring in someone else (a trailer-editing company, Joss Wheedon) to re-jigger the film in post, and in the process they make the movies a complete mess.



    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    I actually prefer that take on Joker. I've gotten tired of that mass murder Joker.

    The only thing I think they really got wrong with their version of Joker was the character design. I had no problem with him otherwise. (Okay, so maybe he didn't have the best laugh, it was still better than Ledger's.)
    Oh dear god. Ledger's laugh was PERFECT. Leto sounded like he inhaled helium.

    But I think we can all agree that the best Joker laugh is Mark Hammil's.

  3. #33
    (Formerly ilash) Ilan Preskovsky's Avatar
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    Oh, bloody hell. Can we not? I knew the Snyder Cut was setting a bad precedent.

    And I'm sorry but nowhere in Suicide Squad or Justice League are there even remotely good movies. DC have finally started to get their films right with stuff like Wonder Woman, Shazam, even Birds of Prey that have all learned from the mistakes of Snyder's earlier movies (which, woof, Suicide Squad did not) and moved on. I wish the fans would too.

    Especially because in a couple of years (I think), we'll have a Suicide Squad movie by freakin' James Gunn. Why do people still give a crap about the original abortion? Yes, yes, bad studio for interfering but Ayer's Suicide Squad was, like Trank's FF, very clearly a turkey from the get go.

    And I never, ever want to see Leto as Joker ever again.
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  4. #34
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Will the Ayer cut still have the "hunka-hunka" scene?

  5. #35
    Astonishing Member Adekis's Avatar
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    I kind of don't want to see more of Leto's Joker just because Jared Leto himself seems to be such a creep, and I don't really want him to get any more money or success, rather than because I have a lot of problems with the portrayal itself. Jack Saint on YouTube did a pretty interesting defense of Leto's performance as the Joker, and it turned me around to thinking a lot of the concepts that Leto plays with are really interesting and viable for the character - but Saint couldn't defend Leto's actual behavior, and on that front he ended up basically saying, "If your problem with Leto's Joker is that you don't like the character choices, then this video is for you, but if your problem is that he's played by Jared Leto... then yeah, that's totally fair, I don't have a rebuttal to that and I don't even really disagree."


    I'd be vaguely interested in the Ayer Cut if it ever got released, but unlike Snyder's JL, I'm never really going to campaign for it, or even wish for it in the abstract sense. I just don't care enough about Suicide Squad in the first place, haha.
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  6. #36
    Mighty Member Blind Wedjat's Avatar
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    So now David Ayer wants his cut of Suicide Squad, after repeatedly saying the theatrical cut was his cut and he made it "for the fans"?

    Why on Earth are we letting these people manipulate us?

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blind Wedjat View Post
    So now David Ayer wants his cut of Suicide Squad, after repeatedly saying the theatrical cut was his cut and he made it "for the fans"?

    Why on Earth are we letting these people manipulate us?
    Ayer isn't manipulating anyone, he knew that was a bad time to say that out loud because he likes being employed by WB - now an opportunity presents itself where he can speak freely without burning bridges.

  8. #38
    Mighty Member Blind Wedjat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Ayer isn't manipulating anyone, he knew that was a bad time to say that out loud because he likes being employed by WB - now an opportunity presents itself where he can speak freely without burning bridges.
    You know what I call that? Lacking integrity and outright lying to your base. If Suicide Squad wasn't the cut he wanted then he didn't make it for the fans. That's simple logic. Personally to me it seems a lot of people who put so much stock and emotional attachment to the DCEU becoming a thing (to rival or beat the MCU for the more fanatic ones) cannot see why they should be outraged by this.

    The theatrical cuts of BvS and SS were not for the fans, they were for the studio. They were for WB and to give them confidence that they wouldn't lose money.

    Funny how Josh Trank is the only director to have told the truth when it didn't benefit him, but when it needed to be said, and he got laughed at by everyone.

  9. #39
    Mighty Member Frobisher's Avatar
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    Could all these director’s cut campaigns be astroturfing by Disney to trick WB into doubling down on their failures instead of striking out in new directions?

  10. #40
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  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blind Wedjat View Post
    You know what I call that? Lacking integrity and outright lying to your base. If Suicide Squad wasn't the cut he wanted then he didn't make it for the fans. That's simple logic. Personally to me it seems a lot of people who put so much stock and emotional attachment to the DCEU becoming a thing (to rival or beat the MCU for the more fanatic ones) cannot see why they should be outraged by this.
    It's a little white lie, and if Ayer didn't do that we wouldn't be getting the director's cut he wanted. He wouldn't have a career and we wouldn't be getting a directors cut. Him being truthful wouldn't be allowing him to make the movie he wanted. It's Hollywood, this isn't unusual. And it's not limited to movies, you'll get this in any artistic media about licensed material. It's puzzling that you're jumping on anything not being exactly like the director intended as not being for the fans, the DCEU movies are for everyone. They have to be or they end up being financial failures which don't get sequels. These aren't indy films made with zero budgets, these are highly corporate productions with millions on the line.

    The theatrical cuts of BvS and SS were not for the fans, they were for the studio. They were for WB and to give them confidence that they wouldn't lose money.
    Every cut is for the studio, that's why Snyder had to convince WB with a cut to make his director's cut. Without WB's permission and money, nothing happens.

    Funny how Josh Trank is the only director to have told the truth when it didn't benefit him, but when it needed to be said, and he got laughed at by everyone.
    Josh Trank destroyed his career with Fantastic Four, he had nothing to lose.

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