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  1. #31
    Astonishing Member superduperman's Avatar
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    I guess it's too late to ask him any questions. I have one: What was the original idea behind Birthright? Was it meant to be canon or was it meant to be an sort of DC Ultimates version of Superman.
    Now listen to me, Clark! This great strength of yours--you've got to hide it from people or they'll be scared of you!

  2. #32
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    I guess it's too late to ask him any questions. I have one: What was the original idea behind Birthright? Was it meant to be canon or was it meant to be an sort of DC Ultimates version of Superman.
    Luckily I can answer that. Waid was initially told it was standalone, then Didio decided to make it the canon origin, which caused a huge cluster**** iirc. If I’m wrong someone feel free to correct me but that’s what I remember.

  3. #33
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Well, that technology thing has precedence. Superman was anti-automation figure back in the day. Breaking apart machines was kinda his thing.As for vegetarian superman thing not resonating. It was cool is all. For me if superman is gonna have no kill code. He needs to extend to all life. The guy doesn't need to even eat. So, he doesn't even need to kill plants so to speak .Micro organisms might be the only life clark might have no choice taking.Seeing aura's of living things also atleast gave a context to no kill code.
    Both of these ideas made sense, but they just didn't land with readers. It happens sometimes. Some things stick, while others don't.

  4. #34
    Spectacular Member StrikeJP's Avatar
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    A sequel to Birthright with art by Doc Shaner. Needs to happen, like yesterday.

  5. #35
    Astonishing Member superduperman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrikeJP View Post
    A sequel to Birthright with art by Doc Shaner. Needs to happen, like yesterday.
    Have him fighting a giant robot to make it an official Shaner project.
    Now listen to me, Clark! This great strength of yours--you've got to hide it from people or they'll be scared of you!

  6. #36
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lvenger View Post
    I used to like Mark Waid's work when he was in his prime. Superman Birthright, JLA Year One, his Flash run and Fantastic Four run used to be some of my favourite comics. But his work in the 2010s has been a huge drop in quality in both Marvel and Indie so I don't think I'd want Waid to work on Superman now. Also, there are stories and incidents about Waid's behaviour which paint a worrying picture of him. Including but not limited to Waid repeatedly banging a telephone receiver on the ground over and over again and weeping when he worked as an editor for Amazing Heroes as well as throwing a telephone at one of the artists. With behaviour like that, I'm not keen on someone like that writing a superhero who was created to fight bullies.
    This would be my concern too. DC just got over one cancer in the offices in Berganza, it'd be a shame to get another of a different type. If he's gotten better cool, if not its a risk.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

    "Your boos mean nothing, Ive seen what makes you cheer!

  7. #37
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    I wouldn't be sad about Waid getting Superman, but I can't say he is someone I'm dying to take on the books anymore either. Twenty years ago? Oh hell yeah. Now? I dunno. I want someone who will say and do something new with Clark, without disrespecting the past or ignoring the character's actual personality, and I'm not sure Waid is the guy to do that. Of course, I wouldn't have ever thought Bendis would be good for Superman either so who knows?

    Of course, if Waid could bring Samee with him.....that's a creative combo that hasn't let me down yet.

    But honestly I'd rather Waid write Nightwing. I've read Waid's Superman, but not his Dick Grayson and Dick needs all the love and support DC can muster.
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  8. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Luckily I can answer that. Waid was initially told it was standalone, then Didio decided to make it the canon origin, which caused a huge cluster**** iirc. If I’m wrong someone feel free to correct me but that’s what I remember.
    It was actually (then) Superman editor Eddie Berganza who shoehorned Birthright into continuity.

  9. #39
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    So how do we access the results, was it only live and no longer active?
    Welcome or welcome back! Please check out the updated
    CBR Community STANDARDS & RULES

  10. #40
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post
    So how do we access the results, was it only live and no longer active?
    https://community.dcuniverse.com/t/l...7004?u=rephope
    Let me know if that works

  11. #41
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    Some corrections:

    - The original version of Birthright included Brainiac AND a Jor El AI, which were one and the same. Basically, Brainiac had been created by Jor El and appeared throughout the story as a digital Jor El head (a variation on the theme of Superman TAS, where Brainiac is Kryptonian). A major plot point was an alliance between Brainiac and Luthor and a potentially apocalyptic event triggered by the AI, which Superman would prevent at the end of the story. Basically, the AI would go mad and try to recreate Krypton's fate on earth. At the end the AI would kind of "redeem" itself and use a wormhole to allow Superman to say goodbye to his parents (this concept survived in the finale of the version of Birthright we got and in Luthor trying to communicate with Krypton's past through wormholes).

    - The story of Birthright's situation concerning continuity is vague and it was never entirely clarified. Apparently it was supposed to be some kind of "Ultimate Superman" thing or a standalone story for a potential movie (nothing concrete: but standalone stories often provide the basis for movies, and they are often created with this specific purpose in mind). I guess that neither Waid nor Didio had a finalized idea in mind. At one point they decided to force it into continuity (Loeb and Kelly were trying to do something similar at that moment, by revamping Silver Age Krypton), but it was never clarified HOW. There are at least two possible explanations, and none of them really works, nor was really considered an official explanation for what happened. The explanations are: 1- Superman falls into Birthright Continuity in Superman #200; 2- Superboy Prime punches the continuity wall and creates Birthright. Both are stupid. However, Birthright WAS in continuity for some years, even if the references to it were always rather vague.

    - Even if in latest years Birthright has become some kind of forgotten gem, when it was published many fans were outraged - I mean 'pitchforks and torches crowd' levels. One of them - MOTA or Man of the Atom - was basically Waid's stalker and tried to destroy Birthright in every possible message board. Sales weren't great, either (not a flop though). It was mostly considered a missed opportunity. A popular fansite, Superman the Ages, simply stopped reviewing it halfway.

    - A concrete proof that they weren't 100% sure of what they were doing is Waid's short story Young Luthor in Smallville, from Superman/Batman Secret Files, which retcons a major detail of Birthright (Lionel Luthor) by trying to reconcile it with postCrisis continuity (which was the official one in those days). The story was published before the end of Birthright - basically a retcon in real time.

    - On a personal level, I think that there are things in Birthright which work (Africa, Clark's characterization), others don't (Luthor, Luthor's plan), others are simply cringy (S stands for hope, Superman re-sewing the S onto his chest with laser eyes). I wouldn't have anything against a possible run by Waid, who was offered Action Comics at one point (during New Krypton, when the main characters were Nightwing and Flamebird) but refused.
    Last edited by Myskin; 05-31-2020 at 02:47 AM.
    Educational town, Rolemodel city and Moralofthestory land are the places where good comics go to die.

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    And Alan Moore looked down and whispered "No."

  12. #42
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Interesting that you’re not a fan of Birthright Lex, I thought he was fantastic. Any reason why?

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Interesting that you’re not a fan of Birthright Lex, I thought he was fantastic. Any reason why?
    The idea is good - making him an astrobiologist, so smart that his genius makes him an outsider and desperately tries to connect with Clark Kent (and - later in his life - old Krypton) because he is in desperate need of friends, even if he doesn't realize it. It's the execution which doesn't entirely work. Too many Joker Luthor moments (grins, bizarreness). He seems, and maybe is, a model for Jesse Eisenberg Luthor.
    Also: there are a couple of major plot points which simply don't work. He breaks his friendship with Clark basically because he misinterprets his facial expression (?) and the plan with the fake Kryptonians. The plan is a disaster. A huge anticlimax which fatally undermines the final fight. Waid's works are rarely without weird flaws which could have been avoided in hindsight.
    He had potential though. A partially successful merging of Smallville Lex, Silver Age Young Lex, Mad Doctor Lex and businessman Lex. He surely makes more sense than the composite Krypton we have seen from Johns and - later - Jurgens, Tomasi and Bendis.
    Educational town, Rolemodel city and Moralofthestory land are the places where good comics go to die.

    DC writers and editors looked up and shouted "Save us!"
    And Alan Moore looked down and whispered "No."

  14. #44
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myskin View Post
    The idea is good - making him an astrobiologist, so smart that his genius makes him an outsider and desperately tries to connect with Clark Kent (and - later in his life - old Krypton) because he is in desperate need of friends, even if he doesn't realize it. It's the execution which doesn't entirely work. Too many Joker Luthor moments (grins, bizarreness). He seems, and maybe is, a model for Jesse Eisenberg Luthor.
    Also: there are a couple of major plot points which simply don't work. He breaks his friendship with Clark basically because he misinterprets his facial expression (?) and the plan with the fake Kryptonians. The plan is a disaster. A huge anticlimax which fatally undermines the final fight. Waid's works are rarely without weird flaws which could have been avoided in hindsight.
    He had potential though. A partially successful merging of Smallville Lex, Silver Age Young Lex, Mad Doctor Lex and businessman Lex. He surely makes more sense than the composite Krypton we have seen from Johns and - later - Jurgens, Tomasi and Bendis.
    Actually, it's is. snyder borrows alot from birthright.

  15. #45
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post
    So how do we access the results, was it only live and no longer active?
    I guess you saw the banner for a different Q&A and thought you was on the wrong page? The original link still works.
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