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  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaitou D. Kid View Post
    Assuming OMD stays in place for the foreseeable future?

    If the only mandate is that Peter can't be married, I would cheat the system and have them live together & be past their 'will-they-won't-they' stage. It's not that uncommon anymore for a couple in the 25-35 range to rent a place together but to have no immediate plans of getting married. I know several couples like that in real life. In such a situation, OMD may not get in the way of the story - at least not in the short term.

    If you ask me, Spencer is already cheating the system a bit. I wouldn't be surprised if the status quo after Kindred is Peter and MJ living together.
    Interesting.

    I agree that the "will-they-or-won't they" dynamic sucks and has no place in any comic and certainly not Spider-Man.

    If Quesada & Co. consider that being "practically married", though...then from a writer's perspective, it may really be best to write MJ out and give Peter a new love interest until a pro-marriage Editor-In-Chief comes along. I was actually invested in seeing Peter go out with that comedian girl from Zdarksy's run only to find out she had a boyfriend, both because it was relatable and because as reader I was back to knowing only what Peter knew. I still wasn't as invested in that as I was with the marriage...still, I was more invested in it than the current "Poor Parker luck, that's what kept MJ away" you mentioned.
    I did say once that if with OMD, the writers/editors wanted to say, "Peter's making a decision...no relationships ever because his life endangers and hurts people around him" then I could accept it but instead they trotted out a bunch of knockoff love interests (either a variation of Gwen, MJ, Debra Whitman) as placeholders. And the problem with a new love interest is the same with Superman. Nobody is gonna measure up to Lois (not even Wonder Woman in the happily dead New 52 version), no one would measure to Mary Jane.

    As "Mighty God King" put it about BND: "Moreover, it wouldn’t matter if the Spider-writers had devoted more time to Peter’s lovelife. It wouldn’t have worked. Know why? Because we already know “what’s supposed to happen.” Peter ends up with MJ, just like Clark ends up with Lois and Batman… well, Batman probably ends up alone and/or dead, but let’s not dwell on that for now." And obviously the writers themselves were never all that invested in a new romance. You can tell that they themselves never bought into Carlie Cooper as a relationship.

  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Interesting.

    I agree that the "will-they-or-won't they" dynamic sucks and has no place in any comic and certainly not Spider-Man.



    I did say once that if with OMD, the writers/editors wanted to say, "Peter's making a decision...no relationships ever because his life endangers and hurts people around him" then I could accept it but instead they trotted out a bunch of knockoff love interests (either a variation of Gwen, MJ, Debra Whitman) as placeholders. And the problem with a new love interest is the same with Superman. Nobody is gonna measure up to Lois (not even Wonder Woman in the happily dead New 52 version), no one would measure to Mary Jane.

    As "Mighty God King" put it about BND: "Moreover, it wouldn’t matter if the Spider-writers had devoted more time to Peter’s lovelife. It wouldn’t have worked. Know why? Because we already know “what’s supposed to happen.” Peter ends up with MJ, just like Clark ends up with Lois and Batman… well, Batman probably ends up alone and/or dead, but let’s not dwell on that for now." And obviously the writers themselves were never all that invested in a new romance. You can tell that they themselves never bought into Carlie Cooper as a relationship.
    In a way, it feels like self-fulfilling prophecy and kinda hypocritical.

    Breaking up Peter and MJ is arguably the thing that saved their relationship.

  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    Breaking up Peter and MJ is arguably the thing that saved their relationship.
    That's counter to the thrust of our discussion.

  4. #244
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    I agree that the "will-they-or-won't they" dynamic sucks and has no place in any comic and certainly not Spider-Man.
    They can work, but they need a conclusion, otherwise it gets boring.
    "Wow. You made Spider-Man sad, congratulations. I stabbed The Hulk last week"
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  5. #245
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    In a way, it feels like self-fulfilling prophecy and kinda hypocritical.

    Breaking up Peter and MJ is arguably the thing that saved their relationship.
    I'll bite, how?
    "Wow. You made Spider-Man sad, congratulations. I stabbed The Hulk last week"
    Wolverine, Venom Annual # 1 (2018)
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  6. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    I'll bite, how?
    It martyred their relationship which helped to ignite the fanbase.

    The same thing happened in the 90’s as well.

  7. #247
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    It martyred their relationship which helped to ignite the fanbase.

    The same thing happened in the 90’s as well.
    Wasn't that when they tried to outright kill off Mary Jane? Or are we referring to the Clone Saga that basically tried to delegitimize the Peter Parker that married her in the first place?
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Wasn't that when they tried to outright kill off Mary Jane? Or are we referring to the Clone Saga that basically tried to delegitimize the Peter Parker that married her in the first place?
    There were many times when Marvel tried to get rid of MJ.

  9. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    There were many times when Marvel tried to get rid of MJ.
    Even way back in Wolfman's run when he had her turn down his first marriage proposal, if I recall correctly.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    There were many times when Marvel tried to get rid of MJ.
    The more important and pressing reality is that every attempt failed. Her popularity never dimmed. Attempts to make her unlikable never stuck. That’s more important and defining.

  11. #251
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Even way back in Wolfman's run when he had her turn down his first marriage proposal, if I recall correctly.
    I can't dislike Wolfman too much, because he gave us Felicia, but man his run is weird, sometimes i feel like i read another characther. Mantlo did a better job at Spec even if his plots were kind of average.
    "Wow. You made Spider-Man sad, congratulations. I stabbed The Hulk last week"
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  12. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    It martyred their relationship which helped to ignite the fanbase.

    The same thing happened in the 90’s as well.
    Did it though? Their relationship still exists, and is still just as close as can be. They just aren't married. More like deep friends without "benefits."

    The main problem with OMD is that Peter and MJ gave in to a devil deal to save Aunt May. That needs to have consequences other than the lack of a piece of paper in Peter and MJ's lives.
    Every day is a gift, not a given right.

  13. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Taylor View Post
    Did it though? Their relationship still exists, and is still just as close as can be. They just aren't married. More like deep friends without "benefits."

    The main problem with OMD is that Peter and MJ gave in to a devil deal to save Aunt May. That needs to have consequences other than the lack of a piece of paper in Peter and MJ's lives.
    Their marriage is gone. There are no further negative consequences that need to be dealt with.

    The problem comes from how even people that he trusted don't even know who he is.

  14. #254
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    I agree that the "will-they-or-won't they" dynamic sucks and has no place in any comic and certainly not Spider-Man.
    I disagree with this 157%.

    The idea that Peter wants something but his life as Spider-man gets in the way is one of the foundations of the comic.

  15. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    The idea that Peter wants something but his life as Spider-man gets in the way is one of the foundations of the comic.
    "Foundations of the Comic" is a meaningless phrase.

    What's not meaningless is the fact that Mary Jane Watson has made more appearances in 616 Marvel than any Spider-Man character aside from Peter himself. She's made more than 1000 appearances making her in addition Marvel's most frequently appearing civilian character (alongside Jonah). As of 2019, she was in the top 10 most frequently appearing female characters, and the only civilian in that list.

    The appearances of the character in continuity is real empirical fact. Not subject for debate or quibbling. Since no other supporting character aside from her has comparable real estate and Spider-Man is Marvel's biggest character and his title has been top selling and consistent, then it stands to reason she's a major aspect of Spider-Man, and not extricable. And since that's a reality that endured OMD and Slott, there's no point in trying to beat around the bush and pretend that a fictional version of Spider-Man (i.e. some formula or concept dreamed up by fanboys in the 90s) can be superimposed to the one we actually have had.
    Last edited by Conn Seanery; 09-23-2020 at 08:31 PM.

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