Is Peter Parker truly a loser compared to other heroes?

[Huntsman Spider]

I want to see Thor's identity as Dr. Donald Blake return. It would be cool to see Thor and Peter interact more often as well...

You might get your wish according to the upcoming Thor #9 by Donny Cates, at least if the cover is anything to go by.

[Darthfury78]

Peter is no loser...

[Huntsman Spider]

Peter is no loser...

Exactly, good fellow.

[Laufeyson]

The way I read it is that Spider-Man is not a loser, but Peter Parker? God, he is a loser. I mean by that is Peter Parker side of Spider-Man is the loser because sometimes to do the right thing he really just made the worst decision for himself and that is stupid. I mean what kind of stupid person tortures himself by being a hero... See the irony here. What I mean is we as a reader see him as a hero because we knew that Peter Parker is Spider-Man. But if we live in Marvel Universe and we see from that angle which is Peter Parker spent most of his life taking photos of Spider-Man to mock him with a huge grin on his face, despite he is saving the people of new york from lunatics. Not only that, but Peter Parker is also the Elon Musk for 6 months and then he blew all of his money in one night. For unknown reasons.

So as readers and fans, Spider-Man is the greatest hero of them all. He is selfless and down to earth. A hero that never gives up and will always bring a smile to your face. A perfect hero for New Yorker and everyone in the world. But if we live in Marvel universe and look at it and meet Peter Parker WITHOUT knowing he is Spider-Man then the first thing we said is: Hey, you are that guy who becomes an Elon Musk for few months and blows up your money right? God, you are losers.

Even if I said that I will never, ever trade that Peter Parker - Spider-Man for anyone ever. Because where else you can find where your hero is a loser. Everyone wanted to portray their hero as the best hero ever and then you met this guy who the real persona is the loser that made by the decision that he made himself. And that decision is there to save everyone. To care his aunt. To save his girlfriend, despite being mocked as the loser. That is hero. No matter how much you spin it and deny it, that is the hero.

[Huntsman Spider]

The way I read it is that Spider-Man is not a loser, but Peter Parker? God, he is a loser. I mean by that is Peter Parker side of Spider-Man is the loser because sometimes to do the right thing he really just made the worst decision for himself and that is stupid. I mean what kind of stupid person tortures himself by being a hero... See the irony here. What I mean is we as a reader see him as a hero because we knew that Peter Parker is Spider-Man. But if we live in Marvel Universe and we see from that angle which is Peter Parker spent most of his life taking photos of Spider-Man to mock him with a huge grin on his face, despite he is saving the people of new york from lunatics. Not only that, but Peter Parker is also the Elon Musk for 6 months and then he blew all of his money in one night. For unknown reasons.

So as readers and fans, Spider-Man is the greatest hero of them all. He is selfless and down to earth. A hero that never gives up and will always bring a smile to your face. A perfect hero for New Yorker and everyone in the world. But if we live in Marvel universe and look at it and meet Peter Parker WITHOUT knowing he is Spider-Man then the first thing we said is: Hey, you are that guy who becomes an Elon Musk for few months and blows up your money right? God, you are losers.

Even if I said that I will never, ever trade that Peter Parker - Spider-Man for anyone ever. Because where else you can find where your hero is a loser. Everyone wanted to portray their hero as the best hero ever and then you met this guy who the real persona is the loser that made by the decision that he made himself. And that decision is there to save everyone. To care his aunt. To save his girlfriend, despite being mocked as the loser. That is hero. No matter how much you spin it and deny it, that is the hero.

That's a good way of summing it up. Also, I like your icon.

[Ursalink]

Exactly, good fellow.

If you ask me, Tony Stark is a true loser compared with Peter.

[Huntsman Spider]

If you ask me, Tony Stark is a true loser compared with Peter.

Hmm, yeah? Do go on, please.

[Ursalink]

Hmm, yeah? Do go on, please.

I prefer not to go on polemic, but we all know how inflated is Toney Stark's ego, and he sees himself as someone who never makes a mistake. (And yet, he makes them continuously). He's essentially like the armored Spider-Man from the 90s animated series' finale, and you might remember what happened to them. Meanwhile, Peter lives with the weight of his mistakes everyday, and I believe that makes him much more human than Tony Stark himself.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I prefer not to go on polemic, but we all know how inflated is Toney Stark's ego, and he sees himself as someone who never makes a mistake. (And yet, he makes them continuously). He's essentially like the armored Spider-Man from the 90s animated series' finale, and you might remember what happened to them. Meanwhile, Peter lives with the weight of his mistakes everyday, and I believe that makes him much more human than Tony Stark himself.

Good point.

Tony Stark remember was in his mid-30s or early 40s when he learnt "with great power comes great responsibility" more or less. Peter learned that at half his age and with fewer resources.

Tony Stark has fewer excuses than Peter did in AF#15. Peter was bullied, had poor parents, wanted to make money to repay his Aunt and Uncle. And he was a young teenager looking for attention and fame, which is understand able.

Whereas Tony was born rich, was already supremely successful, was already popular, was scientifically gifted and yet he spent the majority of his life as an arms dealer and weapons manufacturer. Remember that only a small part of Tony's life is spent as Iron Man, the majority of it was as an amoral businessman. So there's a sense with Tony that he can never make up for what he did.

Bendis to his credit brought this home with Mary Jane, who mocked Tony in a flashback for his slumming airs:
--Tony Stark: Do you like your dad?
-- MJ: Not particularly.
-- Tony Stark: Y'have a mean dad?
-- MJ: Yeah.
-- Tony Stark: Me too. He was soooo mad at the world. And my general existence wasn't helping him get over it. He sees you standing there and instead of seeing legacy... all he sees are missed opportunities. @#$% you, Howard.
-- MJ (pause): I left home the second I could.
-- Tony Stark: So did I.
-- MJ: Yeah, but you did with a big duffel bag full of cash.
— Invincible Iron Man #11, (2016), written by Brian Michael Bendis

[TheCape]

Good point.

Tony Stark remember was in his mid-30s or early 40s when he learnt "with great power comes great responsibility" more or less. Peter learned that at half his age and with fewer resources.

Tony Stark has fewer excuses than Peter did in AF#15. Peter was bullied, had poor parents, wanted to make money to repay his Aunt and Uncle. And he was a young teenager looking for attention and fame, which is understand able.

Whereas Tony was born rich, was already supremely successful, was already popular, was scientifically gifted and yet he spent the majority of his life as an arms dealer and weapons manufacturer. Remember that only a small part of Tony's life is spent as Iron Man, the majority of it was as an amoral businessman. So there's a sense with Tony that he can never make up for what he did.

Bendis to his credit brought this home with Mary Jane, who mocked Tony in a flashback for his slumming airs:
--Tony Stark: Do you like your dad?
-- MJ: Not particularly.
-- Tony Stark: Y'have a mean dad?
-- MJ: Yeah.
-- Tony Stark: Me too. He was soooo mad at the world. And my general existence wasn't helping him get over it. He sees you standing there and instead of seeing legacy... all he sees are missed opportunities. @#$% you, Howard.
-- MJ (pause): I left home the second I could.
-- Tony Stark: So did I.
-- MJ: Yeah, but you did with a big duffel bag full of cash.
— Invincible Iron Man #11, (2016), written by Brian Michael Bendis

Eh, that feels a bit mean to Tony, i don't have a higth opinion on him and i truly loathe his conection with Peter, but he still overall a man trying to do the rigth thing for the rigth reason, thougth is true that morally speaking he is far more questionable for stuff like Civil War; but i prefer to not hold that against him, that story was ill concieved in many levels.

[Huntsman Spider]

I prefer not to go on polemic, but we all know how inflated is Toney Stark's ego, and he sees himself as someone who never makes a mistake. (And yet, he makes them continuously). He's essentially like the armored Spider-Man from the 90s animated series' finale, and you might remember what happened to them. Meanwhile, Peter lives with the weight of his mistakes everyday, and I believe that makes him much more human than Tony Stark himself.

Good point.

Tony Stark remember was in his mid-30s or early 40s when he learnt "with great power comes great responsibility" more or less. Peter learned that at half his age and with fewer resources.

Tony Stark has fewer excuses than Peter did in AF#15. Peter was bullied, had poor parents, wanted to make money to repay his Aunt and Uncle. And he was a young teenager looking for attention and fame, which is understand able.

Whereas Tony was born rich, was already supremely successful, was already popular, was scientifically gifted and yet he spent the majority of his life as an arms dealer and weapons manufacturer. Remember that only a small part of Tony's life is spent as Iron Man, the majority of it was as an amoral businessman. So there's a sense with Tony that he can never make up for what he did.

Bendis to his credit brought this home with Mary Jane, who mocked Tony in a flashback for his slumming airs:
--Tony Stark: Do you like your dad?
-- MJ: Not particularly.
-- Tony Stark: Y'have a mean dad?
-- MJ: Yeah.
-- Tony Stark: Me too. He was soooo mad at the world. And my general existence wasn't helping him get over it. He sees you standing there and instead of seeing legacy... all he sees are missed opportunities. @#$% you, Howard.
-- MJ (pause): I left home the second I could.
-- Tony Stark: So did I.
-- MJ: Yeah, but you did with a big duffel bag full of cash.
— Invincible Iron Man #11, (2016), written by Brian Michael Bendis

Eh, that feels a bit mean to Tony, i don't have a higth opinion on him and i truly loathe his conection with Peter, but he still overall a man trying to do the rigth thing for the rigth reason, thougth is true that morally speaking he is far more questionable for stuff like Civil War; but i prefer to not hold that against him, that story was ill concieved in many levels.

Personally, I take it that for all Tony has that Peter (seemingly) doesn't, he's not exactly a happy and fulfilled person. Contrary to what a lot of people will assume, he does carry a lot of soul-crushing guilt, similar to Peter, starting from the death of the man who inspired him to become a hero after he saw (and experienced) firsthand what his selfish apathy had wrought. Then there's the iconic "Demon in a Bottle" storyline with his struggle against and fall into alcoholism, not to mention the whole reason Armor Wars took off was his guilt that once again, something he'd built to protect people had instead been stolen and repurposed into yet another tool to inflict harm on innocent lives. I won't even get into the stuff with the Illuminati and everything following from that, but I'll say I look forward to Christopher Cantwell's run delving deeper into his psyche and getting at the core of who he is and whether or not he can truly rebuild himself, or if he'll be who he's always been, for better or worse.

[TheCape]

Personally, I take it that for all Tony has that Peter (seemingly) doesn't, he's not exactly a happy and fulfilled person. Contrary to what a lot of people will assume, he does carry a lot of soul-crushing guilt, similar to Peter, starting from the death of the man who inspired him to become a hero after he saw (and experienced) firsthand what his selfish apathy had wrought. Then there's the iconic "Demon in a Bottle" storyline with his struggle against and fall into alcoholism, not to mention the whole reason Armor Wars took off was his guilt that once again, something he'd built to protect people had instead been stolen and repurposed into yet another tool to inflict harm on innocent lives. I won't even get into the stuff with the Illuminati and everything following from that, but I'll say I look forward to Christopher Cantwell's run delving deeper into his psyche and getting at the core of who he is and whether or not he can truly rebuild himself, or if he'll be who he's always been, for better or worse.

You know one typical missinterpretation of Spidey is that he is motivated by guilt, that is not true, he is motivated by responsability, the guilt, soul crushing as it is, is just a consequence of that not the true root of his motivation, as Spencer said he has a responsability complex, hell even Bendis understand as much as i have my problems with Ultimate Spider-Man. But with Tony, based in more recent stuff (wich to be fair, migth be a total missrepresantion of him, i'm not an Iron Man expert), he might be truly motivated by guilt for his past sins.

[Huntsman Spider]

You know one typical missinterpretation of Spidey is that he is motivated by guilt, that is not true, he is motivated by responsability, the guilt, soul crushing as it is, is just a consequence of that not the true root of his motivation, as Spencer said he has a responsability complex, hell even Bendis understand as much as i have my problems with Ultimate Spider-Man. But with Tony, based in more recent stuff (wich to be fair, migth be a total missrepresantion of him, i'm not an Iron Man expert), he might be truly motivated by guilt for his past sins.

Maybe. That's a good point. And while the more recent stuff may be more extreme compared to what came before . . . well, based on Armor Wars, there is (something of) a precedent for Tony doing bad things, even to his own friends and allies, convinced he's ultimately doing what's right and/or necessary. As for Peter's responsibility complex, I believe somewhere it gets called "responsibility OCD," or "hyperscrupulosity," in which someone lives with a borderline-pathological fear of not being able to protect others around them from harm.

[TheCape]

Maybe. That's a good point. And while the more recent stuff may be more extreme compared to what came before . . . well, based on Armor Wars, there is (something of) a precedent for Tony doing bad things, even to his own friends and allies, convinced he's ultimately doing what's right and/or necessary. As for Peter's responsibility complex, I believe somewhere it gets called "responsibility OCD," or "hyperscrupulosity," in which someone lives with a borderline-pathological fear of not being able to protect others around them from harm.

Someday i had to ger around reading Micheline and O'Neil Iron Man. As for Peter, i always interpreted it as him having higth standards for himself, if he doesn't live to the responsability, he fails and he takes the failure than a normal person would.

[Huntsman Spider]

Someday i had to ger around reading Micheline and O'Neil Iron Man. As for Peter, i always interpreted it as him having higth standards for himself, if he doesn't live to the responsability, he fails and he takes the failure than a normal person would.

Yeah, that would be a good idea. I'd even recommend Operation: Galactic Storm, the 21-part Avengers epic back in the early 90s that ended with the Avengers split over what to do with the Kree Supreme Intelligence after the true horror of its crimes and evildoing has been revealed . . . small spoiler alert, Iron Man votes to kill the Supreme Intelligence, and actually does it, much to the horror of several of the other Avengers. As for your interpretation of Peter's sense of responsibility, I can see that.