Page 9 of 20 FirstFirst ... 567891011121319 ... LastLast
Results 121 to 135 of 288
  1. #121
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    2,462

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Fury isnÂ’t available. The Avengers are. And again, they do not care about his secret identity and were willing to help. One of them has super speed and the other can shrink so it isnÂ’t like stealth will be an issue.


    Again, no one in that room was asking for his secret identity. He is the one who makes a big deal out of it. The Avengers may have criticized him for having one but they werenÂ’t going to make him reveal it. This was a problem entirely of PeterÂ’s invention.



    On that we can agree.


    There is a time and a place for everything. And honestly, a lot of the instances of you bringing up class in discussions about Spider-Man are less about an honest examination of this theme and more about you trying to gas Peter up over other characters you dislike or apathetic to.



    Yeah, superhero writers arenÂ’t always the best judges of what qualifies as rational behavior.

    Btw, do you think Nick Spencer is wrong when he says Spider-Man's bad publicity is partly his own fault?




    Except for Spider-Man apparently.




    What writers intend and what the story shows are not always the same thing.


    Most psychologists will tell you that being able to joke with friends does not preclude ving severe mental problems.
    By your logic, Deadpool is a mentally balanced person.
    I will concede the point that there are people who can laugh and have severe psychological issues like Deadpool or even worse Joker. But you also have to consider Peter’s job: Dealing with bad guys almost every day. If he makes a mistake people die (and that is not just Gwen etc, but average people walking down the street), the psychological stress is enormous. Watch a movie called ‘Running Scared’ with Paul Walker and Vera Farmiga. Walker is an undercover agent who infiltrated the mob for 12 years. Even his wife ( Farmiga) and son had no idea. He had to lie to them, every single day ( sound familiar to Spider-Man readers?), and he knew he could not slip up because he would put his family in jeopardy ( again sounds familiar?). Fortunately for Walker ( and a Russian boy named Oleg ( watch the movie and you will see why)) Farmiga was a strong woman, and can handle difficult situations. Taking this to Spider-Man, maybe without MJ, Peter goes full Frank Castle ( a character created by Conway only 7 issues after ASM 122), but the point is, in that issue she grew up and stopped Peter from acting on his worst instincts. But Peter thanks to MJ and now Theresa, does have people to talk to that he can trust, and along with the growth of Miles should have things easier ( provided the writers do not go Dan Slott on him).

  2. #122
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    4,112

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by NC_Yankee View Post
    I will concede the point that there are people who can laugh and have severe psychological issues like Deadpool or even worse Joker. But you also have to consider Peter’s job: Dealing with bad guys almost every day. If he makes a mistake people die (and that is not just Gwen etc, but average people walking down the street), the psychological stress is enormous. Watch a movie called ‘Running Scared’ with Paul Walker and Vera Farmiga. Walker is an undercover agent who infiltrated the mob for 12 years. Even his wife ( Farmiga) and son had no idea. He had to lie to them, every single day ( sound familiar to Spider-Man readers?), and he knew he could not slip up because he would put his family in jeopardy ( again sounds familiar?). Fortunately for Walker ( and a Russian boy named Oleg ( watch the movie and you will see why)) Farmiga was a strong woman, and can handle difficult situations. Taking this to Spider-Man, maybe without MJ, Peter goes full Frank Castle ( a character created by Conway only 7 issues after ASM 122), but the point is, in that issue she grew up and stopped Peter from acting on his worst instincts. But Peter thanks to MJ and now Theresa, does have people to talk to that he can trust, and along with the growth of Miles should have things easier ( provided the writers do not go Dan Slott on him).
    Peter's mentally broken more than once from the stressful situations being Spider-man has put him in. There was that anti-hero The Spider phase, I think that was after Kraven's Last Hunt? He nearly beat a Hand ninja to death with a train once, Elektra had to snap him out of it and there was the time the Jackal somehow (this was never explained why!) wrecked the tests Pater and Ben Reilly did on each other to find out who the real clone was, so Peter would think he's the clone which made him so angry he punched a pregnant Mary-Jane and ran away. These are just the obvious freak outs, he's had numerous other upsets in his long career - it's why him quitting being Spider-man is a running gag - it's become that cliche.

  3. #123
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    9,358

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    There is a time and a place for everything. And honestly, a lot of the instances of you bringing up class in discussions about Spider-Man are less about an honest examination of this theme and more about you trying to gas Peter up over other characters you dislike or apathetic to.
    Mostly because any attempts to make a joke about Spider-Man having a secret identity while pointing to Tony as a counter simply brings up the fact that the person making that argument and claim is ignorant of class.

    Yeah, superhero writers aren’t always the best judges of what qualifies as rational behavior.
    The point is that they wrote the story and character with the intent that of Peter being a rational person and not a case subject for someone with mental issues.

    Btw, do you think Nick Spencer is wrong when he says Spider-Man's bad publicity is partly his own fault?
    It's irrelevant. Nick Spencer is not saying Spider-Man is a loser nor is he saying that he commits self-sabotage.

    Just because you make mistakes that does not mean you commit self-sabotage, because again - to clarify - smart, normal, and healthy people make mistakes too, all the time.

    The ability to make a mistake does not mean you are insane, as Qui Gonn Jinn would say.

    What writers intend and what the story shows are not always the same thing.
    Are you saying that Spider-Man titles have been written like All-Star Batman and Robin?

    Most psychologists will tell you that being able to joke with friends does not preclude having severe mental problems.
    Obviously it depends on the kind of humor, but in general, having a warm and empathetic sense of humor is a sign of a winning, stable and encouraging personality.

    By your logic, Deadpool is a mentally balanced person.
    Peter Parker as a character has more realistic shades and dimensions to him than Deadpool does. Deadpool is a very unreal cartoon on whom you can't really apply any normative psychological traits or consistent personality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    I think that's just because he's a serial super-hero and he's popular. Ordinary people would break completely under the consistent horror that is being a super-hero in a super-hero universe.
    The latter point applies if we are dealing with a superhero deconstruction or a superhero parody. But at the end of the day, Marvel 616 and ASM plays the story straight. Which is to say, that the intent and surface meaning of the story is that we are watching the story of someone who means well and does his best and is a normal person.

  4. #124
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Posts
    2,571

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Btw, do you think Nick Spencer is wrong when he says Spider-Man's bad publicity is partly his own fault?
    I read ASM # 39 just a few days ago, and Nick Spencer is absolutely wrong on this. All writers prior to One More Day (including Stan and Steve) made it clear that Jameson's hatred of Spider-Man comes from Jameson's own selfishness and jealousy towards Spider-Man. The Amazing Spider-Man # 10 (1963) even states this explicitly.

    The interpretation of Jameson as an honest actor is recent and a total retcon of the pre-OMD Jameson.
    Last edited by Kaitou D. Kid; 07-28-2020 at 07:02 AM.

  5. #125
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    2,462

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaitou D. Kid View Post
    I read ASM # 39 just a few days ago, and Nick Spencer is absolutely wrong on this. All writers prior to One More Day (including Stan and Steve) made it clear that Jameson's hatred of Spider-Man comes out from Jameson's selfishness and jealousy towards Spider-Man. The Amazing Spider-Man # 10 (1963) even states this explicitly.

    The interpretation of Jameson as an honest actor is recent and a total retcon of the pre-OMD Jameson.
    You are 100% correct. Plus who used Scorpion and Smythe against Spider-Man? JJJ. Making JJJ goodie, goodie is even worse then the Gwen Stacy whitewash.

  6. #126
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Posts
    2,571

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by NC_Yankee View Post
    You are 100% correct. Plus who used Scorpion and Smythe against Spider-Man? JJJ. Making JJJ goodie, goodie is even worse then the Gwen Stacy whitewash.
    Worst than that, it is blaming the victim. Jameson was conceived as a satire of corporate media. To say that his targets are partly responsible for his smears because "they weren't nicer to him" is to blame his victims.

    It is not like "being nicer" ever does anything either. Bernie Sanders was extremely nice to MSNBC and they still smeared him during his campaign. Peaceful protesters are generally nice but get smeared all the time.
    Last edited by Kaitou D. Kid; 07-28-2020 at 07:52 AM.

  7. #127
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Venezuela
    Posts
    8,641

    Default

    Jonah in general is my biggest problem with the current run, it didn't star with Spencer, but man his follow up on Zardasky mistake (because i would never buy that Peter would actually reveal his identity to Jonah, but then again maybe i need to rereadthe issue), hasn't been good, "both sides are too blame" is not an acurate despiction of their relation at all.
    "Wow. You made Spider-Man sad, congratulations. I stabbed The Hulk last week"
    Wolverine, Venom Annual # 1 (2018)
    Nobody does it better by Jeff Loveness

    "I am Thou, Thou Art I"
    Persona

  8. #128
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Venezuela
    Posts
    8,641

    Default

    Anyway i just realized that i didn't answer the question, no he isn't, Peter is a man that have a hard time jugling his civilian life and his superhero life, because of his sense of responsability, like most heroes used to, if we are being honest, he is not inherently more of a loser than Wolverine, Cap or Iron Man (who barely had a civilian life to speak off, althought i think Steve used to have one).

    Has he made mistakes in his carreer?, could he have acted better in certain situations?, certanly, but he is not "self-sabotaging" nor he is mentally unbalanced (no more than any other cape anyway, Logan is probably closer to that idea).
    Last edited by TheCape; 07-28-2020 at 10:01 AM.
    "Wow. You made Spider-Man sad, congratulations. I stabbed The Hulk last week"
    Wolverine, Venom Annual # 1 (2018)
    Nobody does it better by Jeff Loveness

    "I am Thou, Thou Art I"
    Persona

  9. #129
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    2,462

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    Anyway i just realized that i didn't answer the question, no he isn't, Peter is a man that have a hard time jugling his civilian life and his superhero life, because of his sense of responsability, like most heroes used to if we are being honest, he is not inherently more of a loser than Wolverine, Cap or Iron Man (who barely had a civilian life to speak off, althought i think used to).

    Has he made mistakes in his carreer?, could he have acted better in certain situations?, certanly, but he is not "self-sabotaging" nor he is not mentally unbalanced (no more than any other cape anyway, Logan is probably closer to that idea).
    Peter has difficulty balancing civilian and superhero life because he does try and strike a balance. He is actually living a full life, not sitting around in Avengers Mansion waiting for the next crisis to happen. Do you know who gets it? MJ. She knows there is a need for a Spider-Man, but not at the expense of Peter Parker.

  10. #130
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Posts
    2,571

    Default

    Peter's superhero/civilian balance varies greatly from writer to writer . Slott's Spider-Man was bad at it, JMS' Spider-Man was pretty good at it. Those are just two examples.

  11. #131
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Posts
    5,212

    Default

    Pete is the everyman given powers...however the everyman does not have luck (writers keeping him down) like Pete does. I hated the whole Parker Industries...and get that Otto created that as he was 'superior'...but they over-corrected after the fall of the company. He was in a good place with the Science Editor job at the DB...but then they had to even tank that with the whole "he plagiarized his thesis" so they could take that away from him.

    Personally I want to see him have a pretty good life...hero/private life balance...with a good job, married to MJ (who is not a big star but a working actress) and start having kids. Give them a nice, happy middle class life.

  12. #132
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    2,462

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    Pete is the everyman given powers...however the everyman does not have luck (writers keeping him down) like Pete does. I hated the whole Parker Industries...and get that Otto created that as he was 'superior'...but they over-corrected after the fall of the company. He was in a good place with the Science Editor job at the DB...but then they had to even tank that with the whole "he plagiarized his thesis" so they could take that away from him.

    Personally I want to see him have a pretty good life...hero/private life balance...with a good job, married to MJ (who is not a big star but a working actress) and start having kids. Give them a nice, happy middle class life.
    I certainly support that. Horizon Labs would be a good job opportunity.

  13. #133
    Radioactive! Spiderfang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    New York-94
    Posts
    586

    Default

    Peter might still be considered the "whelp" or not-god tier by some in-universe critics, however Spider-Man's popularity in real life is far beyond what anyone else in Marvel has brought to the table. Spider-Man games, movies, toys, and various accessories still sell like hot-cakes. Back in universe, I refuse to ever believe or accept that Peter Parker is a loser he is just far too self-aware and judges himself far too harshly.
    The city I once knew as home is teetering on the edge of radioactive oblivion

  14. #134
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    New Jersey, U.S.A.
    Posts
    21,249

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfang View Post
    Peter might still be considered the "whelp" or not-god tier by some in-universe critics, however Spider-Man's popularity in real life is far beyond what anyone else in Marvel has brought to the table. Spider-Man games, movies, toys, and various accessories still sell like hot-cakes. Back in universe, I refuse to ever believe or accept that Peter Parker is a loser he is just far too self-aware and judges himself far too harshly.
    Pretty much this, and in that regard, he's better off than a lot of others in-universe who've let the "super" overtake the "hero" or the "human" aspect of themselves and no longer seem to have empathy or connection with those they would (supposedly) protect.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  15. #135
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    34,012

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaitou D. Kid View Post
    I read ASM # 39 just a few days ago, and Nick Spencer is absolutely wrong on this. All writers prior to One More Day (including Stan and Steve) made it clear that Jameson's hatred of Spider-Man comes from Jameson's own selfishness and jealousy towards Spider-Man. The Amazing Spider-Man # 10 (1963) even states this explicitly.

    The interpretation of Jameson as an honest actor is recent and a total retcon of the pre-OMD Jameson.
    Spencer's main point about about Peter's issues with the public and other superheroes were not simply a result of Jameson's vendetta against him. Spencer didn't retcon anything. He admitted Jameson had been wrong but also didn't let Peter off the hook for his own contribution to his bad publicity. The things Spencer stated about Peter being a lone wolf, having a secret identity when most superheroes didn't and antagonizing and threatening Jameson are true.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •