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  1. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veitha View Post
    You're right, they don't have the memories of their deaths but only from their last backup. So Kate wouldn't know about Shaw if she came back.
    Thanks. So I remembered it right. Thank you.

  2. #257
    Time Police BishopsJuice91's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    What's plausible is up for debate. Krakoa itself is an unknown entity, as is Moira's knowledge, and we don't know the limits of the Dominions. If they can pass knowledge from one reality/time line to another they'd be ready for Moira or Moira herself might be their envoy.
    Cypher communicates directly with Krakoa so I thought...

  3. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by BishopsJuice91 View Post
    Cypher communicates directly with Krakoa so I thought...
    Cypher's not sharing everything. I think it was the Nightcrawler special where he revealed to Magik he was keeping things secret about Krakoa for undisclosed reasons. That's a plot hook that's going to break Krakoa wide open when things go sideways.

  4. #259
    Astonishing Member Veitha's Avatar
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    I don't think Moira is involved in this or Xavier is being shady. The eggs are not working, and probably Krakoa and Kitty's powers are interfering with the Resurrection protocol. And Krakoa is not aware of Moira.

    And I don't think Moira is a Dominion, she's more of an enemy of them.

  5. #260
    Time Police BishopsJuice91's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Cypher's not sharing everything. I think it was the Nightcrawler special where he revealed to Magik he was keeping things secret about Krakoa for undisclosed reasons. That's a plot hook that's going to break Krakoa wide open when things go sideways.
    Add the fact that Cypher is spreading the techno virus around Krakoa willingly or subconsciously who knows and you might have the reason Kitty can't access and was taken off the board. Her phasing disrupts machines...

  6. #261
    Astonishing Member Veitha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BishopsJuice91 View Post
    Add the fact that Cypher is spreading the techno virus around Krakoa willingly or subconsciously who knows and you might have the reason Kitty can't access and was taken off the board. Her phasing disrupts machines...
    This is the most plausible explanation.

  7. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veitha View Post
    I don't think Moira is involved in this or Xavier is being shady. The eggs are not working, and probably Krakoa and Kitty's powers are interfering with the Resurrection protocol. And Krakoa is not aware of Moira.

    And I don't think Moira is a Dominion, she's more of an enemy of them.
    Moira X is deeply entrenched in Krakoa and she's not the Moira we knew, she's somebody else. She has her own agenda. Are you sure about that? Who's to say she hasn't got Krakoa itself working with her?

    Being shady is all this Xavier does.

    True, but that's not necessarily the whole story. We don't know the Dominion's full capabilities and they consider the Phalanx, a species known for subverting biological species into their collective, as beneath them on the power scale. It's heavily implied they're in the Beyonder's league. How would we definitely know that she wasn't their envoy? For all we know they wanted her to create Krakoa to make mutants a new species to subvert into their hierarchy with her as their queen.

  8. #263
    Time Police BishopsJuice91's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veitha View Post
    This is the most plausible explanation.
    Not saying that she would disrupt it completely but she might very well be able to detect it and blow the horn that it is actually spreading throughout the island...

  9. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    True, but that's not necessarily the whole story. We don't know the Dominion's full capabilities and they consider the Phalanx, a species known for subverting biological species into their collective, as beneath them on the power scale. It's heavily implied they're in the Beyonder's league. How would we definitely know that she wasn't their envoy? For all we know they wanted her to create Krakoa to make mutants a new species to subvert into their hierarchy with her as their queen.
    If i recall right HOX/POX info pages mentioned that there are two things which can kill or endanger a Dominion. Gallactus and the Phoenix Force.

    With powerfull mutants having at various points displayed the ability to harness the power of the phoenix force or even controll it to a degree, it's entirely possible everything about this Moira, her lifes and the major retcons regarding the X-men history that this setup is based on might actualy be an elaborate plan by such a Dominion to overcome these two dangers.

    Convince mutantkind to willingly modify themselves socialy and physicaly to the point that they become compatible with the Dominion, giving them both access to the power of the X-gene and the ideal bodies to be able to bend the Phoenix Force to their will and destroy Gallactus with it.

    After all some elements of Krakoa can easily be seen to fit such a plan.
    The mutants vs humans ideological divide seems like the ideal groundwork to make them willingly cast of social or personal norms a Dominion might see as troublesome for intigration and steer them towards a hive mind.
    The copy and past process by which they "revive" dead mutants might be a good way to make them disregard their physical nature and individuality.
    The Post Humans in Moira's sixth life even used the same Cerebro device as Xavier to store and their own people into the Phallanx.
    The bio-tech created from Krakoa could just be a way for mutants to be more willing to infuse themself with it since it's now "their" technology.
    The Chimeras appear like the best way to mass produce phoenix force controlling bodies and another step at making mutants less focused on individuality and more a "purpose" life.

    Hickman said this whole setup is not based on time travel. But considering how powerfull the Dominions are supposed to be (transcending time and space) they might aswell just have warped reality to suit their plans. Using Moira as unknowning chess figure to manipulate the two major mutant leaders into following their plan and accepting this brave new world as being their great tool at winning.
    Instead of creating a complete fake world like House of M or Age of X-men where mutants are allready the dominant form of humanity, they just give mutants their own little paradise while leaving the rest of the world as is to give them a constant enemy to fight against and reject.

    After all we can't say for sure that everything about Moira's revival and Lives is actualy real.

    Just some speculation of course. Though if these speculations are close to Hickman's plans, it might be interesting if the Moira they created for their plan might be it's undoing, if she ever finds out what her true nature is.

  10. #265
    Astonishing Member Veitha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Moira X is deeply entrenched in Krakoa and she's not the Moira we knew, she's somebody else. She has her own agenda. Are you sure about that? Who's to say she hasn't got Krakoa itself working with her?

    Being shady is all this Xavier does.

    True, but that's not necessarily the whole story. We don't know the Dominion's full capabilities and they consider the Phalanx, a species known for subverting biological species into their collective, as beneath them on the power scale. It's heavily implied they're in the Beyonder's league. How would we definitely know that she wasn't their envoy? For all we know they wanted her to create Krakoa to make mutants a new species to subvert into their hierarchy with her as their queen.
    Well, we will have to see I guess. I was saying Krakoa doesn't know about her because No-Place is a "Krakoan tumor", and it is specifically made so Krakoa doesn't know about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grunty View Post
    If i recall right HOX/POX info pages mentioned that there are two things which can kill or endanger a Dominion. Gallactus and the Phoenix Force.

    With powerfull mutants having at various points displayed the ability to harness the power of the phoenix force or even controll it to a degree, it's entirely possible everything about this Moira, her lifes and the major retcons regarding the X-men history that this setup is based on might actualy be an elaborate plan by such a Dominion to overcome these two dangers.

    Convince mutantkind to willingly modify themselves socialy and physicaly to the point that they become compatible with the Dominion, giving them both access to the power of the X-gene and the ideal bodies to be able to bend the Phoenix Force to their will and destroy Gallactus with it.

    After all some elements of Krakoa can easily be seen to fit such a plan.
    The mutants vs humans ideological divide seems like the ideal groundwork to make them willingly cast of social or personal norms a Dominion might see as troublesome for intigration and steer them towards a hive mind.
    The copy and past process by which they "revive" dead mutants might be a good way to make them disregard their physical nature and individuality.
    The Post Humans in Moira's sixth life even used the same Cerebro device as Xavier to store and their own people into the Phallanx.
    The bio-tech created from Krakoa could just be a way for mutants to be more willing to infuse themself with it since it's now "their" technology.
    The Chimeras appear like the best way to mass produce phoenix force controlling bodies and another step at making mutants less focused on individuality and more a "purpose" life.

    Hickman said this whole setup is not based on time travel. But considering how powerfull the Dominions are supposed to be (transcending time and space) they might aswell just have warped reality to suit their plans. Using Moira as unknowning chess figure to manipulate the two major mutant leaders into following their plan and accepting this brave new world as being their great tool at winning.
    Instead of creating a complete fake world like House of M or Age of X-men where mutants are allready the dominant form of humanity, they just give mutants their own little paradise while leaving the rest of the world as is to give them a constant enemy to fight against and reject.

    After all we can't say for sure that everything about Moira's revival and Lives is actualy real.

    Just some speculation of course. Though if these speculations are close to Hickman's plans, it might be interesting if the Moira they created for their plan might be it's undoing, if she ever finds out what her true nature is.
    This is very interesting, about the Dominions wanting to get a way to control the Phoenix through mutants. I wonder where Dominions fit in the cosmic scale confronted to The Beyonders. And how they dealt with Incursions.

  11. #266
    Astonishing Member Veitha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BishopsJuice91 View Post
    Not saying that she would disrupt it completely but she might very well be able to detect it and blow the horn that it is actually spreading throughout the island...
    I feel like the eggs are given nutrients from Krakoa since they look plugged in (while Eva ages them they might be needing some form of nutrients), and the technorganic stuff is messed up by Kate's powers. This would also mean the X-Men current bodies are full of technorganic stuff lol.

  12. #267
    Fantastic Member Criticalfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dante Milton View Post
    My latest conspiracy theory with regards to Kate is that it's all an elaborate plot of Emma's to get rid of Shaw. With the story as it has been presented to us, the only thing that makes sense to me as to why Kate can't use the gates or be resurrected is because of sabotage. The problem with that is there doesn't seem to be any reason someone would specifically target Kate. But Emma hates Shaw, so she chose one of the most beloved X-Men and set things up in such a way that she knew Shaw would try to kill her. But then, why keep Kate dead? And why wouldn't she have made her accusation against Shaw yet? So probably not, but still there was something about the way Christian said "My sister has many secrets".
    Didn't Emma say she needed Shaw resurrected? Her asking for him to be alive is a funny way of wanting him dead

  13. #268
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Criticalfan View Post
    Didn't Emma say she needed Shaw resurrected? Her asking for him to be alive is a funny way of wanting him dead
    No. Charles and Eric told her they needed Sebastian.
    "Cable was right!"

  14. #269
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    Emma didn't want tPoS around...at all.
    I'm glad she proved Xavier and Eric wrong...well...tPoS did.
    We are MUTANT...One people. One tribe. One family...Krakoa, FOREVER!!!

  15. #270
    Extraordinary Member Fokken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BishopsJuice91 View Post
    Add the fact that Cypher is spreading the techno virus around Krakoa willingly or subconsciously who knows and you might have the reason Kitty can't access and was taken off the board. Her phasing disrupts machines...
    Quote Originally Posted by Veitha View Post
    This is the most plausible explanation.
    I'm ashamed this never entered my brain. Le Sigh.

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