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  1. #106
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Why do everyone just puts everything mediocre on the head of "post crisis"? It's a lazy criticism. Dcau superman like dceu superman was an amalgam. There is postcrisis in there but that's not all.

  2. #107
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Why do everyone just puts everything mediocre on the head of "post crisis"? It's a lazy criticism. Dcau superman like dceu superman was an amalgam. There is postcrisis in there but that's not all.
    Wild guess - they like grouping things they don't like together so they can poo poo on it all in one go. It's what some fans do.

  3. #108

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    Quote Originally Posted by DochaDocha View Post
    If we're going to complain that Cavill is "Dark Superman," can't we complain that Routh was eavesdropping, peeping-Tom Superman who let someone else raise his kid for four years?

    I'd just say it took three movies for Chris Evans Captain America to be interesting, and it took five for Chris Hemsworth Thor to be entertaining on-screen. Maybe the 4th time would be the charm for Cavill?
    There is NO charm with Cavil. As an actor he's bland as hell or too cold and aloof to be anything than an second-string anti-hero like The Witcher or support player or a villain (the only movie where he doesn't suck is M:I 6 because he's the villain and gets beat up and put down by Tom Cruise a lot) just like Chris Pine, who is great in films like Unstoppable, Wonder Woman, and Star Trek: Beyond where he's a co-star or as a part of larger cast, but he is an absolute boring and downright awful in Spy vs. Spy, Star Trek, and Star Trek: Into Darkness. Cavil at best is just forgettable because he lacks any screen presence. Routh on the other hand has screen presence and then some, plus Cavil has been rejected 3 times as Superman by mass audience, why waste money on actor who the film going public doesn't want to see as Superman.

    Evans always charm and the warmth to play Captain America, and Marvel made the best Superman movies they were Captain America: The First Avenger, Captain America: The Winter Solider, and Captain America: Civil War by embracing the character's roots made him cool right out of the gate.

    Hemsworth has charm but wasn't until he made Ghostbusters: Answer the Call that we saw that he can be really, really, really funny and he has worked better than he was trying to be serious all the time.
    Last edited by Cyberstrike; 06-06-2020 at 04:56 PM.

  4. #109
    Spectacular Member Stick Figure's Avatar
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    I’m happy with Cavill coming back as I loved MOS. He’s Superman to me. However, given the climate right now, wouldn’t this be the time to make a black Superman film? It could be taken as exploitation but it would definitely give a movie a buzz it won’t get otherwise. Just throwing that out. I’m thrilled about Cavill.

  5. #110
    Spectacular Member Stick Figure's Avatar
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    Duplicate post

  6. #111
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberstrike View Post
    There is NO charm with Cavil. As an actor he's bland as hell or too cold and aloof to be anything than an second-string anti-hero like The Witcher or support player or a villain (the only movie where he doesn't suck is M:I 6 because he's the villain and gets beat up and put down by Tom Cruise a lot) just like Chris Pine, who is great in films like Unstoppable, Wonder Woman, and Star Trek: Beyond where he's a co-star or as a part of larger cast, but he is an absolute boring and downright awful in Spy vs. Spy, Star Trek, and Star Trek: Into Darkness. Cavil at best is just forgettable because he lacks any screen presence. Routh on the other hand has screen presence and then some, plus Cavil has been rejected 3 times as Superman by mass audience, why waste money on actor who the film going public doesn't want to see as Superman.

    Evans always charm and the warmth to play Captain America, and Marvel made the best Superman movies they were Captain America: The First Avenger, Captain America: The Winter Solider, and Captain America: Civil War by embracing the character's roots made him cool right out of the gate.

    Hemsworth has charm but wasn't until he made Ghostbusters: Answer the Call that we saw that he can be really, really, really funny and he has worked better than he was trying to be serious all the time.
    Yeah the idea that Cavill could blow everyone away if Snyder wasn’t there doesn’t feel at all like a sure thing. I’m hesitant to put so much faith in an actor who is usually one of the weaker members of the cast.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stick Figure View Post
    I’m happy with Cavill coming back as I loved MOS. He’s Superman to me. However, given the climate right now, wouldn’t this be the time to make a black Superman film? It could be taken as exploitation but it would definitely give a movie a buzz it won’t get otherwise. Just throwing that out. I’m thrilled about Cavill.
    Cavill being back isn’t a sure thing. They’ve just had opening talks apparently. Any Superman movie would be years off, long past the timeframe to cash in on our current climate. And who says it would even be a success? Casting MBJ as Johnny Storm didn’t save F4ntastic, I doubt a Superman movie would fare any better. If WB and the people handling Supes on the big screen still fail to understand and utilize the source material, it won’t matter who they cast, the movie will flop just like Snyder’s stuff did. BP2, Blade, ITSV2, maybe GLC with John Stewart are what will get pushes coming out of all this I feel.

    Putting aside that I don’t want to replace Clark with one of his Elseworld Superman alternates, at least not until he gets some better treatment in outside media, the best character to benefit from the current climate would be Static. He’s the one who could most easily feature topic like police brutality, institutional racism, etc, he’s already got a strong in-built fanbase thanks to the cartoon. DC needs to work out the problems with Milestone and get Static back in play ASAP.
    Last edited by Vordan; 06-06-2020 at 06:43 PM.

  7. #112
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stick Figure View Post
    I’m happy with Cavill coming back as I loved MOS. He’s Superman to me. However, given the climate right now, wouldn’t this be the time to make a black Superman film? It could be taken as exploitation but it would definitely give a movie a buzz it won’t get otherwise. Just throwing that out. I’m thrilled about Cavill.
    Eh, I'd rather they make a Steel or Black Lightning movie than black Superman movie. Race changing just seems weird to me. Plus Steel is awesome and I'll fight anyone who says otherwise!

    That said I just don't care for Cavill Superman.

  8. #113
    Astonishing Member Soubhagya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Am I the only one disappointed they're not just moving on with a new actor? I never really liked Cavill that much in the role (he was just fine to me) and I doubt it was all just because of Snyder. Seeing someone new would be exciting.
    I share your opinion as well. I can't see why some people say he's the best Superman. I can see the best 'Superman' part. Superman is written like a character who is struggling and finding his way. But Cavill's performance is kind of middling. He was best in Man of Steel. And even there i found him lacking something.

    He looks the part. And i have no issue with people liking him. But in my opinion he is never going to be a great Superman. Some say its due to poor writing. Give him good stuff and see him win over everyone. But remember Superman 4. So what if the series was going off the rails? Reeve was never the problem. He always brought his A material. Batman V Superman is considered bad by many. But almost nobody complained about Ben Affleck. People appreciated his performance even when other things were falling apart. Even a small cameo by Gal Gadot was well received. If Cavill was great he wouldn't be forgotten amidst all that. I wanted to love him in Mission Impossible. But apart from the physical aspects he was bit of a bore.

    I like Cavill. He seems to be a cool guy. But after three attempts it would probably be better to start over. Man of Steel 2 is past overdue. Something like American Alien with a new actor could be a good start. However, i would happily eat my words if Cavill gets another movie and blows everyone away by his Superman, as that would mean i get some more good Superman.
    Last edited by Soubhagya; 06-07-2020 at 12:38 AM.

  9. #114
    Extraordinary Member Powerboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soubhagya View Post
    I share your opinion as well. I can't see why some people say he's the best Superman. I can see the best 'Superman' part. Superman is written like a character who is struggling and finding his way. But Cavill's performance is kind of middling. He was best in Man of Steel. And even there i found him lacking something.

    He looks the part. And i have no issue with people liking him. But in my opinion he is never going to be a great Superman. Some say its due to poor writing. Give him good stuff and see him win over everyone. But remember Superman 4. So what if the series was going off the rails? Reeve was never the problem. He always brought his A material. Batman V Superman is considered bad by many. But almost nobody complained about Ben Affleck. People appreciated his performance even when other things were falling apart. Even a small cameo by Gal Gadot was well received. If Cavill was great he wouldn't be forgotten amidst all that. I wanted to love him in Mission Impossible. But apart from the physical aspects he was bit of a bore.

    I like Cavill. He seems to be a cool guy. But after three attempts it would probably be better to start over. Man of Steel 2 is past overdue. Something like American Alien with a new actor could be a good start. However, i would happily eat my words if Cavill gets another movie and blows everyone away by his Superman, as that would mean i get some more good Superman.
    Pretty much this. He may physically be the best Superman ever as far as imagining how the character might look in live action. But he's really a very ordinary actor. And that's not personal. I've seen him in interviews. I like him. He makes some good points and has some insight into the character. But he is just limited in his ability to convey that on-screen.
    His name is CAPTAIN MARVEL.

  10. #115
    Astonishing Member sifighter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stick Figure View Post
    Iím happy with Cavill coming back as I loved MOS. Heís Superman to me. However, given the climate right now, wouldnít this be the time to make a black Superman film? It could be taken as exploitation but it would definitely give a movie a buzz it wonít get otherwise. Just throwing that out. Iím thrilled about Cavill.
    I mean I would watch a movie of Cavill Superman training a young Val-Zod or Steel(either Henry or Natasha). Iíve argued in other posts that if Supermanís only going to be in movies similar to Hulk, I.e various cameos, then why not introduce another member of the Super-family to have around full time. Just say, ďoh Clarkís retired after dying and wants to live with his family so he sent me.Ē

    Of course Iíd also argue the same for Superboy, Supergirl, Powergirl, Superwoman, Kong Kenan, and in the rare/unlikely family friendly choice, Krypto (Iím sure thereís been talks of a kids animated movie at some point for Krypto). This way there can be a constant presence of Superman in some capacity and you can still have Cavill, say the new character needs help or is getting overwhelmed, then Superman shows up to help save the day.
    "It's fun and it's cool, so that's all that matters. It's what comics are for, Duh."
    Words to live by.

  11. #116
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soubhagya View Post
    I share your opinion as well. I can't see why some people say he's the best Superman. I can see the best 'Superman' part. Superman is written like a character who is struggling and finding his way. But Cavill's performance is kind of middling. He was best in Man of Steel. And even there i found him lacking something.

    He looks the part. And i have no issue with people liking him. But in my opinion he is never going to be a great Superman. Some say its due to poor writing. Give him good stuff and see him win over everyone. But remember Superman 4. So what if the series was going off the rails? Reeve was never the problem. He always brought his A material. Batman V Superman is considered bad by many. But almost nobody complained about Ben Affleck. People appreciated his performance even when other things were falling apart. Even a small cameo by Gal Gadot was well received. If Cavill was great he wouldn't be forgotten amidst all that. I wanted to love him in Mission Impossible. But apart from the physical aspects he was bit of a bore.

    I like Cavill. He seems to be a cool guy. But after three attempts it would probably be better to start over. Man of Steel 2 is past overdue. Something like American Alien with a new actor could be a good start. However, i would happily eat my words if Cavill gets another movie and blows everyone away by his Superman, as that would mean i get some more good Superman.
    People did complain and Affleck and Gadot, but there were less I think because they got to do cooler, flashier things. Affleck had more material to work with as an actor. Whether or not the writing for the characters was good, Affleck was able to do more with what he was given and the stereotypical "edgy badass" thing appeals to people more unfortunately. Plus he got at least one great fight scene. Gadot/Wonder Woman didn't have too much, but what she did have allowed her to be cool and mysterious, and then show up at the 11th hour with awesome theme music and just getting shit done. Which was a breath of fresh air after two hours of being miserable with the other two, but she does benefit from the narrative "gaze" not examining her too closely and then getting Jenkins immediately afterward to flesh out her character.

    I think "poor writing/direction" is still a fair excuse for Cavill. Not that he's an amazing actor by any stretch, but he was appropriately Superman-y with Whedon's material. I think a lot of people liked him a lot there, it was just too little too late and also surrounded by a dumpster fire of a movie and horrible CGI lips. I'd probably be more willing to write off Cavill if we could finally get him away from the Snyder/Whedon clusterfuck and he sinks or swims under a completely new creative team behind the camera.

  12. #117
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sifighter View Post
    Of course Iíd also argue the same for Superboy, Supergirl, Powergirl, Superwoman, Kong Kenan, and in the rare/unlikely family friendly choice, Krypto (Iím sure thereís been talks of a kids animated movie at some point for Krypto).
    It may have been delayed cause covid, but last I heard there is plans for an animated Super Pets movie starring Krypto, Ace the Bathound (or maybe Batcow?), and all the other pets. Animated funny movie, not shared DCEU, but sounds like it might turn out fun.

  13. #118
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    It may have been delayed cause covid, but last I heard there is plans for an animated Super Pets movie starring Krypto, Ace the Bathound (or maybe Batcow?), and all the other pets. Animated funny movie, not shared DCEU, but sounds like it might turn out fun.
    Yep, and that might be one of the few things that doesn’t end up delayed given that animation work can be done from home. Wasn’t James Gunn supposed to be involved? Looking forward to it.

  14. #119
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Yep, and that might be one of the few things that doesn’t end up delayed given that animation work can be done from home. Wasn’t James Gunn supposed to be involved? Looking forward to it.
    Maybe, I don't know enough about how animated films work to tell. Probably it might be better to say this would be less delayed rather than unaffected, but I wouldn't know.

    I can't say I'm looking forward to it yet, I need more information to feel anything about it, but I am curious. Don't know if they're going a Pixar type direction or a stupid Teen Titans GO direction or what. Hopefully something more like Lego Batman Movie. Anyways, definitely waiting to get some kind of news on it.

  15. #120
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    People did complain and Affleck and Gadot, but there were less I think because they got to do cooler, flashier things. Affleck had more material to work with as an actor. Whether or not the writing for the characters was good, Affleck was able to do more with what he was given and the stereotypical "edgy badass" thing appeals to people more unfortunately. Plus he got at least one great fight scene. Gadot/Wonder Woman didn't have too much, but what she did have allowed her to be cool and mysterious, and then show up at the 11th hour with awesome theme music and just getting shit done. Which was a breath of fresh air after two hours of being miserable with the other two, but she does benefit from the narrative "gaze" not examining her too closely and then getting Jenkins immediately afterward to flesh out her character.

    I think "poor writing/direction" is still a fair excuse for Cavill. Not that he's an amazing actor by any stretch, but he was appropriately Superman-y with Whedon's material. I think a lot of people liked him a lot there, it was just too little too late and also surrounded by a dumpster fire of a movie and horrible CGI lips. I'd probably be more willing to write off Cavill if we could finally get him away from the Snyder/Whedon clusterfuck and he sinks or swims under a completely new creative team behind the camera.
    If the rumors that Affleck was literally making last-minute changes to the script are true, then he needs to take a lot more blame for BvS, and some of the blame Cavill gets should be mitigated.

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