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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    As far as being usable against a very wide range of adversaries, yes. Dr. Doom is versatile.

    But there are a relatively narrow range of plots into which he can properly fit. Almost all of them revolve around a) tormenting Mr. Fantastic, or b) acquiring world-conquering power for himself. You just can't make him work for, say, running a drug syndicate, unless it somehow leads back to one of his two most common plots.
    That is typical of a lot of villians....they only fit in certain a milieu; The Big Bad or the Reluctant Ally. Marvel started treating Doom differently right after his first solo appearance. And we've seen that change a lot more in the post SW 2015 world. Chris Cantwell's series is more than Doom just plotting something. His current solo is a combination character study/geo-political arc. The last issue was mostly him and Kang riffing off each other while hitchhiking across America.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    If doom is so versatile, why has he failed so miserably as a movie villain? Magneto and Loki don’t seem to have that problem. Thanos also proved to be a threat across the cinematic universe.
    Poor scripts and also none of the films were using Doom. The first two Fox films were business mogul Donald Von Trump. Victor has never been a romantic rival of Reed's for Sue. Director Tim Story had to fight TPTP to get what few elements that made it in there. I have no idea what they were aiming for in Trank's disaster of an FF film....it had more elements of Victor Van Damme I suppose. The actor said he didn't even play the creature that appeared in the ending battle.

  3. #18

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    It’s not typical of a versatile villain. Some villains are so inflexible in their usage that other writers actually come along and explain away what they consider to be out of character appearances.

  4. #19

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    They made him into a business mogul because he was such a poor fit in the FF’s story. How embarrassing is that? He’s their number one villain. Doesn’t sound versatile to me.

  5. #20
    Mighty Member Journey's Avatar
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    I'd say Loki has him beat in versatility.

  6. #21
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    If doom is so versatile, why has he failed so miserably as a movie villain?
    "How come Captain America failed miserably as a movie hero?"

    is a question that was validly asked between 1990-2010.

    "Wonder Woman will never work as a movie" was also validly asked for a long time until 2017. The fact that something "Is" a certain way, doesn't mean it "Ought" to remain that way.Until Richard Donner's 1978 movie, "why do superheroes fail so miserably in movies?" was also valid.

    And fundamentally Doctor Doom hasn't had his moment in movies because nobody has gotten the Fantastic Four to work either. So far Doom in movies has always been used as the big bad in aborted and terrible Fantastic Four movies. That's not a referendum on him as a character because the version of Doom discussed in the OP is the Marvel-wide villain. Magneto has worked because the first X-Men movie by Bryan Singer made the X-Men and Wolverine work. Loki has worked because the Thor movies made Chris Hemsworth's Thor and Asgard work.

  7. #22
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Journey View Post
    I'd say Loki has him beat in versatility.
    These days Loki is hardly a villain anymore. He's too much an anti-hero and ally of Thor and other Marvel heroes and so on.

    Thing about Doctor Doom is that he's versatile while remaining a villain and a major threat. Doom has played off and gotten in the face of ever Marvel hero, team, genre. Nobody else has that record.

  8. #23
    Benefactor / Malefactor H-E-D's Avatar
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    Doom fails when people try to write him as heroic.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    They made him into a business mogul because he was such a poor fit in the FF’s story. How embarrassing is that? He’s their number one villain. Doesn’t sound versatile to me.
    You have that backwards. The story was poor because they shoehorned Doom's origin with the Fantastic Four's. But I am not concerned. When Marvel does roll Doom into films, they will take more time and thought into it than Fox did. We already know that Noah Hawley wrote a script for a Doom solo and it was passed along to Kevin Feige. The Russo brothers have made it known that they'd come back for a project if Doom was part of it. Anything can happen with the movie industry still trying to get on track after the pandemic is no longer an issue.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by H-E-D View Post
    Doom fails when people try to write him as heroic.
    Oh so is that why the GN Triump and Torment is a "failure"?

  11. #26
    Mighty Member babyblob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    Oh so is that why the GN Triump and Torment is a "failure"?
    I dont see Doom as being overly heroic in that. I mean he was trying to free his mom. Even bad guys love their moms. Its not like he was frighting crime or solving the world's problems. I would say he was more noble then heroic. And bad guys can be noble.

    I always thought that was one way you could do more with him. Have him become a magical threat. Fight Doctor Strange more often of something. Maybe try and have him take over some magical realm. or Doom as leader of Hell would be scary as Heck.

    Other then putting the magical arts as part of his back story and the above mentioned GN they really dont do much with it. At least with what I have seen. I could be wrong. But they are missing a boat by not using it much.
    Last edited by babyblob; 06-02-2020 at 01:26 PM.
    Favorite teams. Alpha Flight, Avengers, Fantastic Four, West Coast Avengers, Justice Society of America, Legion of Superheroes.

  12. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    These days Loki is hardly a villain anymore. He's too much an anti-hero and ally of Thor and other Marvel heroes and so on.

    Thing about Doctor Doom is that he's versatile while remaining a villain and a major threat. Doom has played off and gotten in the face of ever Marvel hero, team, genre. Nobody else has that record.
    Untrue. I can think of several who have done this.
    Ultron
    Dracula
    Kang
    The Wrecking Crew
    Mephisto
    Norman Osborn
    Magneto

    This isn’t the 70s any more.

  13. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    You have that backwards. The story was poor because they shoehorned Doom's origin with the Fantastic Four's. But I am not concerned. When Marvel does roll Doom into films, they will take more time and thought into it than Fox did. We already know that Noah Hawley wrote a script for a Doom solo and it was passed along to Kevin Feige. The Russo brothers have made it known that they'd come back for a project if Doom was part of it. Anything can happen with the movie industry still trying to get on track after the pandemic is no longer an issue.
    Or they replace him with Kang

  14. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    How come Captain America failed miserably as a movie hero?"

    is a question that was validly asked between 1990-2010
    The special effects weren’t there, yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Wonder Woman will never work as a movie" was also validly asked for a long time until 2017. The fact that something "Is" a certain way, doesn't mean it "Ought" to remain that way.Until Richard Donner's 1978 movie, "why do superheroes fail so miserably in movies?" was also valid.

    And fundamentally Doctor Doom hasn't had his moment in movies because nobody has gotten the Fantastic Four to work either. So far Doom in movies has always been used as the big bad in aborted and terrible Fantastic Four movies. That's not a referendum on him as a character because the version of Doom discussed in the OP is the Marvel-wide villain. Magneto has worked because the first X-Men movie by Bryan Singer made the X-Men and Wolverine work. Loki has worked because the Thor movies made Chris Hemsworth's Thor and Asgard work.
    Whoever said that about Wonder Woman was a sexist. I’d argue that the last few FF movies would have worked if they had left Doom out. The problem was the lame threat. Everyone liked Johnny and Ben.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    I dont see Doom as being overly heroic in that. I mean he was trying to free his mom. Even bad guys love their moms. Its not like he was fighting crime or solving the world's problems. I would say he was more noble then heroic. And bad guys can be noble.
    Ok, I can see that. How about when he was the only one who figured out how to defeat the plan of the Beyonders? Reed's plan only allowed for a couple of life rafts to save a few dozen. Doom saved thousands if not millions.

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