Magneto vs Apocalypse

[FIGHT]

General thread to compare n contrast the 2 Big X-men Villains

Each has affected the X-men in various ways. Mag was there from the start so he has had a much bigger impact overall. Apocalypse has affected a lot of characters like Cable, Angel and some others. Not as much as Mags tho.

Who is your favorite and why? If you hate both of them which Villain would you like to see elevated to the same level as them.

[Drexelhand]

I mean, the biggest difference is that Apocalypse is ideologically different to Magneto, to the point where in the Twelve story, he was considering killing some of them just to stop Apocalypse from butchering the X-Men. They want different things. Apocalypse wants survival of the fittest, Magneto wants mutant dominance. Yes, Magneto believes that the strong should survive but he does not believe they should cull the weak. In Age of Apocalypse, we saw a weaker version of Apocalypse fight Magneto and even lose after a vicious battle, which would seem to suggest we could come to a similar result in the main universe (since Age of Apocalypse was 616 until Bishop goes back in time and splinters it off by stopping Legion).

But Apocalypse has also been shown to be much stronger in the main universe. He tanked a huge scream from Black Bolt and Cyclop's optic beams. It took Cyclops absorbing a lot of psionic energy from baby Nathan Summers and Jean Grey to amplify his optic beams to the degree where they could destroy Apocalypse, and he survived even then, but was just injured. In the Twelve, he wanted to possess Nate Grey since he could take in infinite psionic energy (like his father) and use it like his mother, hence the most powerful psi in any reality and thus the only reason he would be able to hold Apocalypse's true power without the villain burning out - meaning all other encounters with Apocalypse were him holding back because his own body can't handle his power at full strength. The only reason Cyclops appeared to survive being possessed by Apocalypse is just that, he can absorb an infinite amount of energy.

Magneto has shown incredible feats as well. He can shift the magnetic poles, theoretically, he can create black holes - he is a literal force of nature. At full strength, Magneto should be able to fling Apocalypse into the Sun (although I imagine he would have to cause a lot of damage first). The way that he destroyed the Neo Warclan hiding out in New York City in particular shows what he can do when he wants to get stuff done. He's also no slouch, Apocalype can understand Celestial technology, well Magneto can understand the Stranger's technology.

In a protracted battle, it's anybodys game but if Magneto wants to destroy Apocalypse as fast as he can, I'd give it to him.

The only other villain on their level would be Mr. Sinister, I mean he has ties to:

* Apocalypse - was created by him
* Gambit - is very likely his father in a way
* Cyclops - manipulated him to create Cable
* Havok - manipulated him to bond with the Living Monolith
* Vulcan - is why he ended up with the Shi'ar
* Jean Grey - was about to take her until Charles did
* Madelyne Pryor - created her to replace Jean Grey
* Cable - created him to kill Apocalypse
* Nate Grey - created him to kill Apocalypse (alternate)
* Charles Xavier - manipulated his life to try and possess him
* Hazard - manipulated his life to try and possess him
* Juggernaut - manipulated his life to try and possess him
* Sebastian Shaw - manipulated his family starting with his father
* Magneto - was his boogeyman during his time in Auschwitz
* Namor - was one of his earliest enemies with his N2 clone
* Amanda Mueller - used her to create the current gen of mutants
* Wolverine - was one of his earliest enemies back in Origin II
* Colossus - manipulated his family starting with his great-grandmother

And I'm sure there are others I forgot.

[Cruelrain]

Current Magneto loses

Classic Magneto wins

[nx01a]

I'll comment more later but for now...

[FIGHT]

^ They have not fought besides alternate reality iirc.

Current Magneto loses

Classic Magneto wins

Really does depend on the writer. If all abilities are counted for and at full strength I will give it to Apocalypse.

The only other villain on their level would be Mr. Sinister, I mean he has ties to:

* Apocalypse - was created by him
* Gambit - is very likely his father in a way
* Cyclops - manipulated him to create Cable
* Havok - manipulated him to bond with the Living Monolith
* Vulcan - is why he ended up with the Shi'ar
* Jean Grey - was about to take her until Charles did
* Madelyne Pryor - created her to replace Jean Grey
* Cable - created him to kill Apocalypse
* Nate Grey - created him to kill Apocalypse (alternate)
* Charles Xavier - manipulated his life to try and possess him
* Hazard - manipulated his life to try and possess him
* Juggernaut - manipulated his life to try and possess him
* Sebastian Shaw - manipulated his family starting with his father
* Magneto - was his boogeyman during his time in Auschwitz
* Namor - was one of his earliest enemies with his N2 clone
* Amanda Mueller - used her to create the current gen of mutants
* Wolverine - was one of his earliest enemies back in Origin II
* Colossus - manipulated his family starting with his great-grandmother

And I'm sure there are others I forgot.

Yea Sinister is an obvious choice. I like the idea of Sinister having an endless amount of clones and being very hard to kill. Only thing with Sinister is that he is more of the mad scientist that sends lackeys to fight/kill for him. Maybe Hickman can elevate him so he can be a threat that would make even Apocalypse fear him.

[Drexelhand]

^ They have not fought besides alternate reality iirc.
Yea Sinister is an obvious choice. I like the idea of Sinister having an endless amount of clones and being very hard to kill. Only thing with Sinister is that he is more of the mad scientist that sends lackeys to fight/kill for him. Maybe Hickman can elevate him so he can be a threat that would make even Apocalypse fear him.

While this is definitely true, especially more so in recent years, we can't forget just how powerful Sinister has been shown to be. He squared off evenly with Madelyne Pryor when she had N'Astirh (and could have won if their goal was trying to kill him and not taking Nathan Summers), decimated the X-Men and X-Factor (only losing because of a weakness to Cyclops' optic beams), has shown to be a telepath on the level of Emma Frost in Messiah Complex and easily defeated a mutant as strong as Mikhail Rasputin while being weakened. I think his portrayal in Fallen Angels showed just how menacing and powerful he was, but with Hickman he's been comedy so far and if I were to bet, to get reader's off guard for when his real power is shown.

[Lucyinthesky]

I'll comment more later but for now...

Agreed and this was a Magneto with 50% of his full power but if Apocalypse makes some preparations before battle it could be a harder battle for the both of them.

[marhawkman]

I saw them fight in Xmen: TAS. I think that was a good depiction AoA magneto got in a lucky sucker punch.

Not quite a fight to the finish, but it's pretty clear that even with Mystique's help all Magneto can really do is knock him off his feet.

[Vishop]

Conceptually Apocalypse should be FAR more powerful than Magneto. But Apocalpyse jobs a LOT and that is a low-end feat more for Apo than Mags.

EDIT: Recently he was fighting a bunch of Nimrods single-handedly but then that is a different universe altogether.

[Frobisher]

Conceptually Apocalypse should be FAR more powerful than Magneto. But Apocalpyse jobs a LOT and that is a low-end feat more for Apo than Mags.

EDIT: Recently he was fighting a bunch of Nimrods single-handedly but then that is a different universe altogether.

It was 616 one Moira conception back.

[Lucyinthesky]

They also fought on the HoM universe and Magneto won again, still this was pre-Hickman Apocalypse and Magneto, Hickman´s and Excalibur Apocalypse actually feels like a mutant with hundreds of years old, I would like to see an actual fight between the two of them in the near future or at least more interaction to see whete they stand with each other.

[FIGHT]

Look what Mag did to my boi. ;o
I dont like the fact that Mags one shot Apocalypse in these non 616 universes.

How did the 2 get along in the Apocalypse movie? I never saw it.

[Lucyinthesky]

Their characterization just felt off for me in the movie, magneto just lost his family so he followed apocalypse without much explanation other than he was very sad and apocalypse called every mutant his "child", including Magneto, because he thought he was the father or ancestor of all mutantkind and a god in his own right. He interacted more with Charles than with Magneto and they had a short fight in the end where magneto turned to help the X-men defeat him with the help of the phoenix force.

I think Hickman added some of movie Apocalypse to his comic counterpart because he´s a lot more fatherly towards most mutants compared to the past and does feel more like an old entity than traditional apocalypse who only thought about survival of the fittest.

[Drexelhand]

They also fought on the HoM universe and Magneto won again, still this was pre-Hickman Apocalypse and Magneto, Hickman´s and Excalibur Apocalypse actually feels like a mutant with hundreds of years old, I would like to see an actual fight between the two of them in the near future or at least more interaction to see whete they stand with each other.

House of M Apocalypse was a bitch and a disgrace. Real Apocalypse would've wiped the floor with him. I mean, real Apocalypse tanked a controlled scream from Black Bolt and with the way he can control his mass, could potentially have taken a lot more. This guy? Black Bolt burped and he died.

[Lucyinthesky]

House of M Apocalypse was a bitch and a disgrace. Real Apocalypse would've wiped the floor with him. I mean, real Apocalypse tanked a controlled scream from Black Bolt and with the way he can control his mass, could potentially have taken a lot more. This guy? Black Bolt burped and he died.

I agree Magneto also was able to contain Blackbolts scream since the silver age or when he´s at his usual power levels, I think 616 Magneto and Apocalypse are almost equal, Magneto has the edge in sheer power given he´s an omega but Apocalypse has celestial technology, it would be a really interesting fight, I would like to see just more interaction between the two of them, maybe a duel at the arena or something like that. Because this new Apocalypse who cares in his own way for the mutants in a way that Magneto actually can relate to.