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  1. #31
    Mighty Member TriggerWarning's Avatar
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    In terms of Television I'd say Twin Peaks or Wiseguy. Both were serialized shows back in the late 80's and early 90's in an era when TV shows didn't do serialization. Every TV episode back then was supposed to be immediately accessible to anyone who had never seen a prior episode before but Wiseguy first and then Twin Peaks broke this mold by telling a continuous story. Its commonplace nowadays but back then it was ground breaking. This led to shows like The X-Files, Deep Space Nine, Buffy, and others that started in the 90's doing a mix of one off episodes and mythology episodes. Nowadays many shows are completely serialized but it started with Wiseguy and Twin Peaks.

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by TriggerWarning View Post
    In terms of Television I'd say Twin Peaks or Wiseguy. Both were serialized shows back in the late 80's and early 90's in an era when TV shows didn't do serialization. Every TV episode back then was supposed to be immediately accessible to anyone who had never seen a prior episode before but Wiseguy first and then Twin Peaks broke this mold by telling a continuous story. Its commonplace nowadays but back then it was ground breaking. This led to shows like The X-Files, Deep Space Nine, Buffy, and others that started in the 90's doing a mix of one off episodes and mythology episodes. Nowadays many shows are completely serialized but it started with Wiseguy and Twin Peaks.
    Nope. As I said in my post above, Hill Street Blues did it first (in 1981!). St. Elsewhere and LA Law also did it -- and all before either Wiseguy and Twin Peaks.

  3. #33
    My Face Is Up Here Powerboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Comic-Reader Lad View Post
    Nope. As I said in my post above, Hill Street Blues did it first (in 1981!). St. Elsewhere and LA Law also did it -- and all before either Wiseguy and Twin Peaks.
    True but then you would have to go back to "Dallas" or "Executive Suite" which was the first as far as I know. While it wasn't the first serialized prime time show, Dallas started the season ending cliffhanger. You could even go back to the late '60s or early '70s when "My Three Sons" had married characters and some of the women were pregnant or already had children and, of necessity, it had to be done in serialized form.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soap_opera

    According to Wiki, the first serialized primetime show was called "Faraway Hill" and it aired on the now defunct Dumont network starting in the fall of 1946.
    Last edited by Powerboy; 06-05-2020 at 07:29 PM.
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  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerboy View Post
    True but then you would have to go back to "Dallas" or "Executive Suite" which was the first as far as I know. While it wasn't the first serialized prime time show, Dallas started the season ending cliffhanger. You could even go back to the late '60s or early '70s when "My Three Sons" had married characters and some of the women were pregnant or already had children and, of necessity, it had to be done in serialized form.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soap_opera

    According to Wiki, the first serialized primetime show was called "Faraway Hill" and it aired on the now defunct Dumont network starting in the fall of 1946.
    In my first post on this thread (on page 1), I did mention Dallas and Dynasty, but I said Hill Street Blues was influential because it started the trend of serialized dramas beyond the soap opera genre. So, I'm thinking beyond Dallas, Executive Suite, or even Peyton Place before them. HSB showed that serialization could be done in a standard drama.

    Also, Dallas didn't really invent the season ending cliffhanger, although it made it popular. The first primetime series that I know that did it was the soap opera parody, Soap, which had its first cliffhanger in March 1978 with the "Who Killed Peter Campbell?" story. Dallas didn't have its first cliffhanger until the end of its first full season (DVD season 2) in March 1979 with a pregnant Sue Ellen getting into a drunken car accident and delivering her baby. Outside of primetime, I believe Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman (another soap opera parody) had a cliffhanger at the end of its first season in Spring 1976.

    As for My Three Sons and the pregnant women, we'd seen that before with I Love Lucy's pregnancy episodes. There were definitely story arcs before HSB (like Lucy's California and Europe episodes), but Hill Street Blues is the first show I can think of that really brought hard core serialization to primetime dramas that weren't soap operas to begin with. HSB certainly started a trend in that regard.
    Last edited by Comic-Reader Lad; 06-06-2020 at 06:54 AM.

  5. #35
    My Face Is Up Here Powerboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Comic-Reader Lad View Post
    In my first post on this thread (on page 1), I did mention Dallas and Dynasty, but I said Hill Street Blues was influential because it started the trend of serialized dramas beyond the soap opera genre. So, I'm thinking beyond Dallas, Executive Suite, or even Peyton Place before them. HSB showed that serialization could be done in a standard drama.

    Also, Dallas didn't really invent the season ending cliffhanger, although it made it popular. The first primetime series that I know that did it was the soap opera parody, Soap, which had its first cliffhanger in March 1978 with the "Who Killed Peter Campbell?" story. Dallas didn't have its first cliffhanger until the end of its first full season (DVD season 2) in March 1979 with a pregnant Sue Ellen getting into a drunken car accident and delivering her baby. Outside of primetime, I believe Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman (another soap opera parody) had a cliffhanger at the end of its first season in Spring 1976.

    As for My Three Sons and the pregnant women, we'd seen that before with I Love Lucy's pregnancy episodes. There were definitely story arcs before HSB (like Lucy's California and Europe episodes), but Hill Street Blues is the first show I can think of that really brought hard core serialization to primetime dramas that weren't soap operas to begin with. HSB certainly started a trend in that regard.
    Ironically, when I was in college, a friend of mine was really into HSB at first but then stopped watching it. When I asked him why, his response was, "Yeah, I really liked it until I realized it was basically a soap opera". But that's a Catch-22 right there because he was defining anything serialized by it's most famous genre, daytime serials. By that definition, the original Flash Gordon was a soap opera. Good point that HSB was the first tv serial outside of simply doing a soap opera in primetime.
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  6. #36
    Extraordinary Member Cyke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TriggerWarning View Post
    In terms of Television I'd say Twin Peaks or Wiseguy. Both were serialized shows back in the late 80's and early 90's in an era when TV shows didn't do serialization. Every TV episode back then was supposed to be immediately accessible to anyone who had never seen a prior episode before but Wiseguy first and then Twin Peaks broke this mold by telling a continuous story. Its commonplace nowadays but back then it was ground breaking. This led to shows like The X-Files, Deep Space Nine, Buffy, and others that started in the 90's doing a mix of one off episodes and mythology episodes. Nowadays many shows are completely serialized but it started with Wiseguy and Twin Peaks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Comic-Reader Lad View Post
    Nope. As I said in my post above, Hill Street Blues did it first (in 1981!). St. Elsewhere and LA Law also did it -- and all before either Wiseguy and Twin Peaks.
    Only to add, not to disagree. The specialness with DS9's serialization unlike Hill Street Blues and St. Elsewhere was that studios and syndicated affiliates worked hard against serialization, because affiliates wanted to retain control of what to air, when to air it, and serialization was seen as infringing on that freedom, plus risking alienating viewers who might miss an episode. Network TV had fewer concerns like that since they mostly controlled the schedule prior to local news.

    It was only when the cast and crew of those shows decided to say, "Screw it" and push ahead with serialization did studios begin to advocate for them, having syndicated affiliates consider silly things like intended broadcast order and continuity.

    I'd admit shows like Hill Street Blues may be more influential than DS9 overall, but it should also be acknowledged that the ways both were influential would have to consider how they influenced their respective audiences, too.

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