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  1. #1
    Mighty Member Hybrid's Avatar
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    Default Proposal: Marvel should only do one event a year, and do it Secret Wars style

    The decline of Marvel Comics is well documented and there are many reasons for it, saying all of them would take too long and might be controversial given the political element of it, but one very uncontroversial element is Marvel's ridiculous event fetish. One event after another. Overlapping events. Changed status quos when the status quo wasn't even established properly. No time to breathe. No organic crossovers. Nothing.

    It's a major reason why I can read the older comics all day, but I can no longer stand the new Marvel that greenlit Snowflake and Safespace. That's an abomination that shouldn't exist, and they thought it was a good idea. Just asinine.

    So when Marvel gets back together and COVID is over, they'll have to restructure how they do business. It's not working, and it tanked comic books. COVID alone didn't kill the direct market for comics. The bad business model, creative decisions and PR did more of that, and COVID was like the finishing tap. But events are useful, and are cool when done right. But it takes moderation and proper execution to do that.

    So, in regards to events, here's what I propose:
    • First do a DC Rebirth style soft reboot. This is a large branding that doesn't reboot the universe, but brings back everything you love about Marvel Comics in a big new initiative to emphasize stories and quality content of quantities of unsellable crap and pointless events. Call it Marvel Returns (after the accalimed Heroes Return story).
    • No events for at least a year, though I'd go for eighteen months. Instead, stories are told individually and crossovers are done organically. Think like '80s Marvel. That said, there would be recurring arc, like an element that pops up in multiple stories and becomes more prominent as they get closer, that hints at something leading to their first event. No events for a year means that they can actually build up to the event they eventually make. How's that for business?
    • When they do get to the event, it'll be after enough time has passed, and a status quo is properly established, that fans won't groan when they hear it. As such, it can be hyped as a big blockbuster story for comics, the equivalent of the Avengers movies in the MCU, that interrupts the lives of everyone involved for this. Note, that they would need to make the continuity actually coherent for this to work. Remember how it was so tight in '80s Marvel, and errors were rare? Well, they simply don't give a shit about that and nothing makes sense. How is Cap running around in multiple titles, but in his own book he's an outlaw that isn't even Captain America anymore? That is BEYOND unacceptable. I guess they have no time for continuity when they're planning like ten events a year, so... yeah.
    • When they do get to the event, use the Secret Wars model: Make it a 12-part maxiseries told in a self contained story. Everyone gets interrupted in their books, but then goes back with new status quo changes, encouraging you to read the event to learn what happened. Secret Wars is regarded as a true classic, and there's a reason for that. On top of being a good story, they actually used a good model for telling it... and then ignored that model at everyone's detriment.
    • Finally, return to status quo for another year. That way, the big event actually has a lasting impact, and you can build to the next one over time and do it all again. Quality, not quantity.

    The big problem is that Marvel saw short-term profits with events, and not the bigger picture. They thought event spam was helping them, but it really hurt them. Less events means more time to grow, build good relations, introduce new fans, and then tell an epic story that has actually ramifications across the line. Don't make ten bad events in a short span of time, and instead make one big GOOD event in a longer span that serves an actual purpose. That's a major reason why '80s Marvel was so good. I wasn't even born in the '80s, but those comics are timeless. It's actually addicting to read '80s Marvel because there's so much good stuff in it, and they knew how to run a business while telling good stories. Recapture that glory! Just because that's the old method doesn't make it outdated, it just means the new stuff is a downgrade.

    That's my thoughts. They need to do a lot to change how Marvel Comics runs. What they've done since like 2012 just hasn't been working. Changes need to be made, and they need to look at what worked in the past versus what's not working now.

    What do you think? Let me know if you have any suggestions of your own.

  2. #2
    Mighty Member babyblob's Avatar
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    I think one event a year is too much to be honest. I would think maybe a major event every three or four years. Leave the event to just a few core characters or teams. I dont need an event that makes me read squirrel girl to get part of the story.

    And maybe do a street level event. Not everything has to be Secret Wars or War of the Realms. I enjoy my street level guys and they feel out of place in those kinds of stories. Do one that effects street level guys once in a while.
    Favorite teams. Alpha Flight, Avengers, Fantastic Four, West Coast Avengers, Justice Society of America, Legion of Superheroes.

  3. #3
    Mighty Member Hybrid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    I think one event a year is too much to be honest. I would think maybe a major event every three or four years. Leave the event to just a few core characters or teams. I dont need an event that makes me read squirrel girl to get part of the story.

    And maybe do a street level event. Not everything has to be Secret Wars or War of the Realms. I enjoy my street level guys and they feel out of place in those kinds of stories. Do one that effects street level guys once in a while.
    I'd say 18 months is a good minimum, but I'm not sure if I could realistically expect that even with a Marvel that's actually trying to fix itself. I think an event should actually live up to the implications of the word. It needs to have impact for everyone's stories in some form, and have its ramifications felt throughout the continuity even years later. The event spam runs counter to what an event is even supposed to be.

  4. #4
    Mighty Member babyblob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hybrid View Post
    I'd say 18 months is a good minimum, but I'm not sure if I could realistically expect that even with a Marvel that's actually trying to fix itself. I think an event should actually live up to the implications of the word. It needs to have impact for everyone's stories in some form, and have its ramifications felt throughout the continuity even years later. The event spam runs counter to what an event is even supposed to be.
    18 months is not a bad timetable. But I dont think they need to impact everyone's story. How is a cosmic level Avengers story going to impact street level Daredevil? How is a street level event going to effect the Xmen? Making them want to effect everyone just leads to useless tie ins that murk up the story.

    Before It seems like I am bashing your ideas. I agree with many of your points about Marvel as it stood before the virus.
    Favorite teams. Alpha Flight, Avengers, Fantastic Four, West Coast Avengers, Justice Society of America, Legion of Superheroes.

  5. #5
    Mighty Member Hybrid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    18 months is not a bad timetable. But I dont think they need to impact everyone's story. How is a cosmic level Avengers story going to impact street level Daredevil? How is a street level event going to effect the Xmen? Making them want to effect everyone just leads to useless tie ins that murk up the story.

    Before It seems like I am bashing your ideas. I agree with many of your points about Marvel as it stood before the virus.
    Oh no, don't worry! That's 100% true. In fact, I should've clarified further that when I say "everyone", I mean "everyone participating in the event". Secret Wars had exclusions like Tony Stark, Kitty Pryde, the New Mutants, Daredevil, Sue Storm, several members of the Avengers, and many more. Secret Wars was a huge event, but actually focused on telling a large ensemble story that had a focused cast. Massive, but didn't try to fit everyone no matter how bad it would be.

    I think another thing with the event is that they would need to be selective as to who is in it, things like storyline potential and reason for being there. That way, you wouldn't even have to rope everyone into the event itself, and not only would it have ramifications, but you can actually make a good story out of it.

  6. #6
    Mighty Member babyblob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hybrid View Post
    Oh no, don't worry! That's 100% true. In fact, I should've clarified further that when I say "everyone", I mean "everyone participating in the event". Secret Wars had exclusions like Tony Stark, Kitty Pryde, the New Mutants, Daredevil, Sue Storm, several members of the Avengers, and many more. Secret Wars was a huge event, but actually focused on telling a large ensemble story that had a focused cast. Massive, but didn't try to fit everyone no matter how bad it would be.

    I think another thing with the event is that they would need to be selective as to who is in it, things like storyline potential and reason for being there. That way, you wouldn't even have to rope everyone into the event itself, and not only would it have ramifications, but you can actually make a good story out of it.
    This I can get on board with.
    Favorite teams. Alpha Flight, Avengers, Fantastic Four, West Coast Avengers, Justice Society of America, Legion of Superheroes.

  7. #7
    Mighty Member Blind Wedjat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    18 months is not a bad timetable. But I dont think they need to impact everyone's story. How is a cosmic level Avengers story going to impact street level Daredevil? How is a street level event going to effect the Xmen? Making them want to effect everyone just leads to useless tie ins that murk up the story.

    Before It seems like I am bashing your ideas. I agree with many of your points about Marvel as it stood before the virus.
    I understand where you're coming from, but a cosmic level or at least worldwide level event can impact the street level fairly well. We actually get this with the MCU. The Battle of New York in Avengers caused a lot of property damage which allowed Wilson Fisk to commit a lot of his crimes using housing schemes and gentrification in Daredevil season 1.

    But I agree that not all events need to be these huge things. They honestly just get tiring.

  8. #8
    Mighty Member Hybrid's Avatar
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    So, do you guys think doing it Secret Wars style is a good idea? I think just making a self-contained maxiseries, that briefly ties into all the comics involved, and then they immediately return with new status quo changes that you'd have to read the story for, is a good way to do it.

    It's hard to gauge exactly how good it is, because they only did it once, but the one time was a proven success. We have many examples of failure from constant tie-ins that completely destroy continuity, storytelling and status quo, so obviously it needs changing. Doing an old school method might be worth a shot, and if it works without issue, keep doing it.

  9. #9
    Mighty Member babyblob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blind Wedjat View Post
    I understand where you're coming from, but a cosmic level or at least worldwide level event can impact the street level fairly well. We actually get this with the MCU. The Battle of New York in Avengers caused a lot of property damage which allowed Wilson Fisk to commit a lot of his crimes using housing schemes and gentrification in Daredevil season 1.

    But I agree that not all events need to be these huge things. They honestly just get tiring.
    I get something happening in new York is going to effect Daredevil. But something on a far away planet or Asgard would not effect Daredvil. The problem is the companies dont really get this and have to have a tie in anyway. Maybe not with Daredevil but some other hero that has nothing to do with what is going on. An event should not just be an excuse to push titles and useless tie ins. I agree with Hybrid. Make it a 12 issue mini or something like that.
    Favorite teams. Alpha Flight, Avengers, Fantastic Four, West Coast Avengers, Justice Society of America, Legion of Superheroes.

  10. #10
    Incredible Member ARkadelphia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hybrid View Post
    The decline of Marvel Comics is well documented and there are many reasons for it, saying all of them would take too long and might be controversial given the political element of it, but one very uncontroversial element is Marvel's ridiculous event fetish. One event after another. Overlapping events. Changed status quos when the status quo wasn't even established properly. No time to breathe. No organic crossovers. Nothing.

    It's a major reason why I can read the older comics all day, but I can no longer stand the new Marvel that greenlit Snowflake and Safespace. That's an abomination that shouldn't exist, and they thought it was a good idea. Just asinine.

    So when Marvel gets back together and COVID is over, they'll have to restructure how they do business. It's not working, and it tanked comic books. COVID alone didn't kill the direct market for comics. The bad business model, creative decisions and PR did more of that, and COVID was like the finishing tap. But events are useful, and are cool when done right. But it takes moderation and proper execution to do that.

    So, in regards to events, here's what I propose:
    • First do a DC Rebirth style soft reboot. This is a large branding that doesn't reboot the universe, but brings back everything you love about Marvel Comics in a big new initiative to emphasize stories and quality content of quantities of unsellable crap and pointless events. Call it Marvel Returns (after the accalimed Heroes Return story).
    • No events for at least a year, though I'd go for eighteen months. Instead, stories are told individually and crossovers are done organically. Think like '80s Marvel. That said, there would be recurring arc, like an element that pops up in multiple stories and becomes more prominent as they get closer, that hints at something leading to their first event. No events for a year means that they can actually build up to the event they eventually make. How's that for business?
    • When they do get to the event, it'll be after enough time has passed, and a status quo is properly established, that fans won't groan when they hear it. As such, it can be hyped as a big blockbuster story for comics, the equivalent of the Avengers movies in the MCU, that interrupts the lives of everyone involved for this. Note, that they would need to make the continuity actually coherent for this to work. Remember how it was so tight in '80s Marvel, and errors were rare? Well, they simply don't give a shit about that and nothing makes sense. How is Cap running around in multiple titles, but in his own book he's an outlaw that isn't even Captain America anymore? That is BEYOND unacceptable. I guess they have no time for continuity when they're planning like ten events a year, so... yeah.
    • When they do get to the event, use the Secret Wars model: Make it a 12-part maxiseries told in a self contained story. Everyone gets interrupted in their books, but then goes back with new status quo changes, encouraging you to read the event to learn what happened. Secret Wars is regarded as a true classic, and there's a reason for that. On top of being a good story, they actually used a good model for telling it... and then ignored that model at everyone's detriment.
    • Finally, return to status quo for another year. That way, the big event actually has a lasting impact, and you can build to the next one over time and do it all again. Quality, not quantity.

    The big problem is that Marvel saw short-term profits with events, and not the bigger picture. They thought event spam was helping them, but it really hurt them. Less events means more time to grow, build good relations, introduce new fans, and then tell an epic story that has actually ramifications across the line. Don't make ten bad events in a short span of time, and instead make one big GOOD event in a longer span that serves an actual purpose. That's a major reason why '80s Marvel was so good. I wasn't even born in the '80s, but those comics are timeless. It's actually addicting to read '80s Marvel because there's so much good stuff in it, and they knew how to run a business while telling good stories. Recapture that glory! Just because that's the old method doesn't make it outdated, it just means the new stuff is a downgrade.

    That's my thoughts. They need to do a lot to change how Marvel Comics runs. What they've done since like 2012 just hasn't been working. Changes need to be made, and they need to look at what worked in the past versus what's not working now.

    What do you think? Let me know if you have any suggestions of your own.
    I stoped reading after the first sentence of your first bullet. No thank you.
    “The Scarlet Witch is the only thing that will scare them. It’s the only thing they’ll respect.” - Hope Summers, Avengers vs X-Men #7

  11. #11
    Mighty Member Hybrid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ARkadelphia View Post
    I stoped reading after the first sentence of your first bullet. No thank you.
    Your loss. But really, what's wrong with a big hyped relaunch after a bad event to gain interest?

  12. #12
    ...of the Black Priests Midnight_v's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hybrid View Post
    Your loss. But really, what's wrong with a big hyped relaunch after a bad event to gain interest?
    Idk about the above poster but to me its a bit weird to be like "I'm sick of all these events lets restrict them" then lead off with "..but first a new-style event *MARVEL REBORN!"
    *sigh* I get it, buuuutt.... its not moving on principle really.
    My priority is enjoying and supporting stories of timeless heroism and conflict.
    Everything else is irrelevant.

  13. #13
    Mighty Member Hybrid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight_v View Post
    Idk about the above poster but to me its a bit weird to be like "I'm sick of all these events lets restrict them" then lead off with "..but first a new-style event *MARVEL REBORN!"
    *sigh* I get it, buuuutt.... its not moving on principle really.
    I don't think that's the same thing. Marvel desperately needs to do something big, something that reshapes how they do things, because the eight years leading up to 2020 drove people away from comics. Then they capped off the mountain of turd they built with New New Warriors starring Safespace and Snowflake. That's something that absolutely needs to be fixed. What I'm proposing isn't an event storyline, it's a means to draw new and hopefully better attention to the direction going forward.

    I'm actually working on the hypothetical Marvel Returns initiative, which I hope in some form becomes reality. I'll post the topic later, but basically it completely rewrites the last eight years of continuity by cutting most of it out, changing what could work, and restoring what was great about Marvel and trying genuinely new things. It's not a hard reboot, I don't think that's a good idea, but instead it treats everything that happened up to 2012 as completely canon, and everything from 2012-2020 as disposable waste to toss aside, all for the Marvel Returns launch to build off what was great rather than destroying it.

    I think they'll need to do something like that if they want to recover. The event they could later build up in 18 or so months could be about explaining how all the bad stuff got jettisoned into another universe, and it would be a big meta-commentary on the '10s dark age as a whole.

    I encourage you to read the rest, because I would say it's way better than what Marvel had been doing.
    Last edited by Hybrid; 05-30-2020 at 10:46 PM.

  14. #14
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    They keep making the events because they keep selling, and they will continue to do so as long as that holds true. Very interested in seeing if Empyre flops or not given the current state of the world. I think Marvel is in for a rough time, between the months long break and Marvel’s nonstop event fetish, I could see sales taking a hit. I do hope they scale stuff down but they’ve already got an X-Men crossover to set up an X-Men event, and a Spider-Man event planned.

  15. #15
    Mighty Member Hybrid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    They keep making the events because they keep selling, and they will continue to do so as long as that holds true. Very interested in seeing if Empyre flops or not given the current state of the world. I think Marvel is in for a rough time, between the months long break and Marvel’s nonstop event fetish, I could see sales taking a hit. I do hope they scale stuff down but they’ve already got an X-Men crossover to set up an X-Men event, and a Spider-Man event planned.
    Again, they only looked at short term success and not what it was doing overall. The constant events have severely hurt the company, not helped it. They have made people fed up with Marvel, and have left in droves. Sad thing is, do you know how many would be willing to come back if Marvel actually started doing things right again? It's so easy to do, but they have refused out of sheer pride.

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