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  1. #31
    Astonishing Member Jekyll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rise View Post
    Legacy is probably one of the worst thing to happen to DC and it's the reason why its universe is such a mess nowdays.

    I would say NO to a replacement. If a new/legacy character can't find a success these days without latching on another character's mantle, they simply don't deserve to be around.
    Disagreed. Legacy is what DC is all about and when it's done well those are the stories and characters that fans remember most. Some of my favorite DC runs are about legacy, Wally Flash run from the 90s, Starman, JSA by Johns were extremely popular and profitable runs for DC. DC has lost it's way in regards to legacy thanks to the leadership.
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  2. #32
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    I don't really care which run is longer, but one of the big reasons it worked for Wally the first time and not for Bart is that they have killed Barry with no plan of resurrecting him and therefore they have no choice but to use and developed Wally.

    By the time Bart came in, Barry came back, Jason came back, fans already know that death doesn't stick.

    Especially now, when people's reaction to death and replacement is "eh, it's not gonna last" there's no incentive or limitation of choice to follow the new recruit. You don't have to buy them, you can just wait until the other one came back, especially if the other one has more fans who support their books.

    (Of course, there's also the personal preference of the people in charge)

  3. #33
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    Barry was not back by the time Bart came in.

    Though the thought was Barry was going to come back to replace Bart, not Wally. And it was the plan but they decided to move it back to Final Crisis so it'd be a bigger deal...then Final Crisis got delayed for a year. So we got Wally as a fill in for a hot second before Barry's return.

    It's likely that Wally could've had a longer run than Barry if he wasn't cut down short. Barry was killed off in COIE when his star was well burnt out, whereas Wally's departure in Infinite Crisis was planned in the midst of an all time great and popular run.

  4. #34
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Yeah, Barry wasn't even back for two years before the New 52 reboot. Final Crisis was the second to last big event before Flashpoint - only Blackest Night is between them.
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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Right, all the nonsense done to the character to make him retire. What a phenomenonal waste of his return.
    I would prefer a few years of downtime enjoying his life off-screen until a good writer / story comes along for him than yet more 'nonsense' like Heroes in Crisis or whatever. Not every character needs to have a monthly. If a good story for that character isn't there, and a writer who *wants* to write that character isn't chomping at the bit, I'd rather not read a bunch of out-of-character rubbish filler written by someone who wanted to be writing someone else.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    I would prefer a few years of downtime enjoying his life off-screen until a good writer / story comes along for him than yet more 'nonsense' like Heroes in Crisis or whatever. Not every character needs to have a monthly. If a good story for that character isn't there, and a writer who *wants* to write that character isn't chomping at the bit, I'd rather not read a bunch of out-of-character rubbish filler written by someone who wanted to be writing someone else.
    We know for a fact that the vast majority of writers at DC absolutely love Wally. It's a common question in basically every writer Q&A. It has never, ever been an issue about writers not having ideas or not wanting to write Wally. We know for a fact that for years it was editorial demand to not even passively reference Wally. Heroes in Crisis was given a green light by the same editorial and, go figure, it was a story about ruining him as a character.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dred View Post
    Barry was killed off in COIE when his star was well burnt out
    By 1985 Cary Bates had been writing the series for 14 years, and Carmine Infantino's art, by his own admission, wasn't his best.

    The character wasn't the problem.

  8. #38
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    I would prefer a few years of downtime enjoying his life off-screen until a good writer / story comes along for him than yet more 'nonsense' like Heroes in Crisis or whatever. Not every character needs to have a monthly. If a good story for that character isn't there, and a writer who *wants* to write that character isn't chomping at the bit, I'd rather not read a bunch of out-of-character rubbish filler written by someone who wanted to be writing someone else.
    All the nonsense and retirement is not a good payoff. Riiiight, as if dc has been allowing or taking pitches with wally. They have been actively resistant to any direction with the character . They did hic because they wanted the character dusted. But, it lead to a backlash. So, they backtracked.
    I say slowpoke should be the new flash.

  9. #39
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Let Wally have his wife and kids and let him retire until someone actually has a good idea for what to do with him. Iím cool with that. For Barry, itís time to do something other than the endless Speed Force and Reverse Flash crap. You can keep Barry as the lead but itís well past time to start doing new stuff with him.
    I could do with a run where Barry's dead mom never comes up a single time.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    All the nonsense and retirement is not a good payoff. Riiiight, as if dc has been allowing or taking pitches with wally. They have been actively resistant to any direction with the character . They did hic because they wanted the character dusted. But, it lead to a backlash. So, they backtracked.
    I say slowpoke should be the new flash.
    Slowpoke is already the Flash, Barry still dabbles in time travel despite knowing how dangerous it is.

    Unfortunately for Barry, there's no Water Stone of King's Rock to make him useful, unlike Slowpoke.

  11. #41
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by king81992 View Post
    Slowpoke is already the Flash, Barry still dabbles in time travel despite knowing how dangerous it is.

    Unfortunately for Barry, there's no Water Stone of King's Rock to make him useful, unlike Slowpoke.
    Admittedly Time Travel in the book has become more problematic then it used to be.

  12. #42
    It sucks to be right BohemiaDrinker's Avatar
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    I say go for it.
    ConnEr Kent flies. ConnOr Hawke has a bow. Batman's kid is named DamiAn.

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  13. #43
    VEGETATIVE INJUSTICE! Kurisu's Avatar
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    Avery Ho (and Gene Luen Yang) is the answer.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    By 1985 Cary Bates had been writing the series for 14 years, and Carmine Infantino's art, by his own admission, wasn't his best.

    The character wasn't the problem.
    The character also wasn't the answer, either. It was at best a wash and at worst a sunk ship. I think we ended up better for it, and I can't say the same for the reversal we've had since.

    By the time Crisis came around and planned to kill Barry the comic had done so much intentional damage to the character to try to inflate sales and garner interest and none of it stuck. Maybe a new writer with a new vision and some good publicity could've fixed it, but it certainly was in a sorry state by the end. And yeah, the character apparently is the problem because they had to completely revamp him in every way possible when they brought him back.

  15. #45
    Astonishing Member JackDaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dred View Post
    The character also wasn't the answer, either. It was at best a wash and at worst a sunk ship. I think we ended up better for it, and I can't say the same for the reversal we've had since.

    By the time Crisis came around and planned to kill Barry the comic had done so much intentional damage to the character to try to inflate sales and garner interest and none of it stuck. Maybe a new writer with a new vision and some good publicity could've fixed it, but it certainly was in a sorry state by the end. And yeah, the character apparently is the problem because they had to completely revamp him in every way possible when they brought him back.

    I think it was a good idea to replace Barry.

    But Wally’s sales really weren’t great towards the end of his run. It’s Flash..so they weren’t cancellation numbers. But they were poor-ish for Flash. At the time I followed the numbers..and a well written Iron Fist over at Marvel was selling at similar levels.

    Wally’s most interesting story had been about maturing, courting Linda, the first forays into the Speed Force.

    They didn’t seem a massive fan demand to see his family grow and see Wally go onto middle age. No one I can remember at the time was saying it was still a great comic...indeed a lot of fans seemed to think it wasn’t even good.

    I think there was at least a reasonable argument to say it was time to move onto next main Flash...pity that Bart wasn’t given a fairer chance.
    Last edited by JackDaw; 05-31-2020 at 11:14 PM.

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