The Flash needs a Brand New Lead

[married guy]

Bart is, at his core, not a mature character. If they truly wanted to do Bart as The Flash, then it should have been a goofy, impatient, immature 16 year old Flash. Wouldn't that have been more interesting?

They didn't put character first. They decided that the new Flash had to have a certain set of traits, and foisted those traits onto an incompatible character.

Yup, and THAT'S why I believe it fell down.
If it was more of the Bart readers knew behind the mask it may have gone differently.
I personally would have enjoyed reading how Bart tried to live up to the mantle he had inherited.
He knew that Wally had reservations about him, he knew how the DCU in general viewed his grandfather. It would be a lot for him to deal with on top of making the title his own.
Where would he fit? Certainly not the JLA. Teen Titans wouldn't be right either. Would he base himself in Manchester? Central? Keystone? Somewhere new??
So much potential and it was wasted due to editorial shenanigans....

[phantom1592]

Bart is, at his core, not a mature character. If they truly wanted to do Bart as The Flash, then it should have been a goofy, impatient, immature 16 year old Flash. Wouldn't that have been more interesting?

They didn't put character first. They decided that the new Flash had to have a certain set of traits, and foisted those traits onto an incompatible character.

Well, that's true... but at the same time... what about character advancement?

Typically I'm the one who argues FOR maintaining the status quo and everything getting reset to the version i love the most... but there's always people who want to see character growth and consequences to the stories. That was why i actually liked Teen Titans Bart. He started off immature and impatient, and then got horribly maimed and crippled. It taught him a lesson and made him more serious. He spent years inside Speed Force after Infinite Crisis and came out more mature and 'different'... it's like complaining that 20 year old Bart isn't the same character as 10 year old Bart.. and he really SHOULDN'T be....

Not to mention that Wally, Jay and Max were always pushing for him to slow down and think things through and fight past that juvenile ADD...

So yeah... he was very different than the Bart people knew.... but i'm not as convinced that it's a BAD thing. Especially TT version where we actually got to see the defining incident that caused him to take life more seriously.

[Dred]

Well, that's true... but at the same time... what about character advancement?

Typically I'm the one who argues FOR maintaining the status quo and everything getting reset to the version i love the most... but there's always people who want to see character growth and consequences to the stories. That was why i actually liked Teen Titans Bart. He started off immature and impatient, and then got horribly maimed and crippled. It taught him a lesson and made him more serious. He spent years inside Speed Force after Infinite Crisis and came out more mature and 'different'... it's like complaining that 20 year old Bart isn't the same character as 10 year old Bart.. and he really SHOULDN'T be....

Not to mention that Wally, Jay and Max were always pushing for him to slow down and think things through and fight past that juvenile ADD...

So yeah... he was very different than the Bart people knew.... but i'm not as convinced that it's a BAD thing. Especially TT version where we actually got to see the defining incident that caused him to take life more seriously.

Yes, people are complaining that Bart just kind of showed up different without showing us any of the character development that led him to being different.

He was also boring. So developing into being boring is bad.

[Lee]

These timeless cartoon characters generally aren't designed to have a beginning, middle and end. They're ideas that reflect the world and the human condition. They have a function and purpose.

Without his short attention span, low impulse control, childlike joy and naivety, what is left of Bart Allen? What does he represent in the world? What is his function as a character? What was Bart Allen as Flash?

Donald Duck doesn't have a decades spanning continuity behind him.

You'd be surprised.

[The no face guy]

Ultimately, I just think DC has made a mess of things by constantly introducing replacement heroes to try to boost sales and catch up with Marvel.

One it doesn't seem to work, I can't think of a replacement character who currently has their own title, and two, it inevitably pits DC comic fan against DC comic fan, because everyone gets frustrated that there favourite version of the Flash or Green Lantern, or input DC hero here, is being sidelined.

Honestly, I rarely ever see Marvel boards arguing about which of the six Daredevils do they want to replace Matt Murdock, normally they just shelve the series for awhile until it becomes popular again.

[Steel Inquisitor]

How about Jesse Quick? She's under rated and the Flash should have been a woman years ago. They should have given her a shot before Impulse.

[Timothy Hunter]

How about Jesse Quick? She's under rated and the Flash should have been a woman years ago. They should have given her a shot before Impulse.

I'd be interested having Jesse Quick become the Flash.

[Frontier]

...I think I'd be down for Jesse getting a shot as The Flash for a bit. She's got a strong personality, a part in the overall Flash legacy, and a good romantic partner in Hourman .

I'm really just happy she's coming back .

[Digifiend]

How about Jesse Quick? She's under rated and the Flash should have been a woman years ago. They should have given her a shot before Impulse.

We've had a female Flash for about three years now - just not the main one. Avery Ho, of the Justice League of China. Her origin happened in Flash before she moved over to New Super-Man.

Saying that, Jesse would be a logical choice if both Barry and Wally were incapacitated.

[Digifiend]

Or until the market fully recovers from the Coronavirus, have concurrent storylines, with one as the lead story, the other in backup, then switch after the first storyline is over.

Not a bad idea. Bring back backups. Superman and Action could use Superboy and Supergirl. Batman and Detective could use Robin and Drake? And yeah, Flash could have a Wally West story.

[Timber Wolf-By-Night]

...I think I'd be down for Jesse getting a shot as The Flash for a bit. She's got a strong personality, a part in the overall Flash legacy, and a good romantic partner in Hourman .

I'm really just happy she's coming back .

Drop the romantic relationship with Hourman. I absolutely HATED how Johns wrote Rick Tyler as a pushy, obnoxious, getting-in-other-people's-business buttinsky, and Jesse as just "sigh, I love this man," particularly when he put in absolutely no work in building up or establishing a relationship between them. Literally, before "One Year Later" the two had NO RELATIONSHIP AT ALL beyond being on the same team, then...what? They're married?? Why? How? Then again, Johns is just terrible at writing romantic relationships, period. He falls on cheats like "destiny," time jumps, and "I'm the most powerful man, you're the most powerful woman, let's be most powerful together." He genuinely doesn't know how to build a believable, healthy romance; he just forces characters together.

[Frontier]

Drop the romantic relationship with Hourman. I absolutely HATED how Johns wrote Rick Tyler as a pushy, obnoxious, getting-in-other-people's-business buttinsky, and Jesse as just "sigh, I love this man," particularly when he put in absolutely no work in building up or establishing a relationship between them. Literally, before "One Year Later" the two had NO RELATIONSHIP AT ALL beyond being on the same team, then...what? They're married?? Why? How? Then again, Johns is just terrible at writing romantic relationships, period. He falls on cheats like "destiny," time jumps, and "I'm the most powerful man, you're the most powerful woman, let's be most powerful together." He genuinely doesn't know how to build a believable, healthy romance; he just forces characters together.

Well, Johns got me to love Rick and has written some of my favorite romantic relationships in comics so I'm just going to have to agree to disagree on that front .

(I think the Superman/Wonder Woman thing was editorially mandated).

[phantom1592]

Drop the romantic relationship with Hourman. I absolutely HATED how Johns wrote Rick Tyler as a pushy, obnoxious, getting-in-other-people's-business buttinsky, and Jesse as just "sigh, I love this man," particularly when he put in absolutely no work in building up or establishing a relationship between them. Literally, before "One Year Later" the two had NO RELATIONSHIP AT ALL beyond being on the same team, then...what? They're married?? Why? How? Then again, Johns is just terrible at writing romantic relationships, period. He falls on cheats like "destiny," time jumps, and "I'm the most powerful man, you're the most powerful woman, let's be most powerful together." He genuinely doesn't know how to build a believable, healthy romance; he just forces characters together.

That's the problem i have with time jumps. Frankly I didn't like anything that was done OYL. Every book lost momentum and picked up in awkward places.

As for Hourman, I'm always a fan of Hourman. Granted my favorite will always be Rex... but it was nice seeing ANYTHING get done with him.

[Sutekh]

How about Jesse Quick? She's under rated and the Flash should have been a woman years ago. They should have given her a shot before Impulse.

Even as a kid, I thought it was weird that there were 'girl' versions of SuperMAN and BatMAN, y'know, the heroes with MAN in their names, and yet no lady versions of the ones with gender-neutral names, like Flash and Green Lantern. (This was long before Jessica Cruz, although there were female Green Lanterns, Katma Tue and Arisia Grax among them, just not from/on Earth.)

Also wondered if there ever was going to be a Martian Womanhunter.

But yeah, Jesse Quick would be a neat Flash, coming from a completely different speedster legacy (that of Johnny Quick) than the usual Flashes. Max Mercury as her (retired) mentor, not nearly so old or wise as is traditional for that role, could be fun, too.

[Digifiend]

Max as a mentor has been done. Impulse, remember?

As for "Martian Womanhunter", isn't Miss Martian basically that idea, a female (and teenage) version of him?