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  1. #1
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    Default Spider-man and the Police.

    I been reading Spider-man all my life and yeah Read the Lee/Ditko, Lee/Romita, the Conray run, all way to today, and this relate to the current climate but I would to start a thread and talk about Spidey relationship with the Law. His relationship always been inconsistent depending the writer. a decade Spider-man was a wanted man ever since he was blamed by George Stacy death and then Gwen's and well everytime Peter had a run with cops, he always mean't with hostility, there been instances of a few cops giving him the benefit doubt and even showing gratitude. but yeah most of the 70s, Spidey always had to run from the Law, athough in Marvel team up he made friends with Jean DeWolfe which she actually got a uncomfortable Spidey in the police station, i guess it made it easier that Iron-man was there with him. but yeah I think once DA Tower got the charges drop on the Stacy's murder, the police eased up on Spidey. there's of course the occassional misunderstanding and a awkward situation where Spidey was in the process of stopping a crime but the cop assume he's doing it. but as his friendship with DeWolfe got stronger, Cops went easy on the web-crawler. He did had a rivalry with Lt Kris Kreating who hated the Web slinger and made a unlikely ally with
    the tough Detective Snider in Roger Stern run. but yeah in the 80s he had a few friends in the force but for the most part he's not well liked. of course he lost his strongest ally Jean to Sin-eater by betrayal by another ally in the force, Stan Carter. Kreating got on Spidey case in Peter David run which turn out to be the Foreigner who killed and replaced him but was cleared, Francois Turk was also another reasonable authority figure during Gang War athough Peter was met with hostility(Even refusing the Webhead offer to help save lives from burning buildings. it wasnt that a things got so bad that cop the refused Spidey help finally took up his offer). I think things didnt get so bad until the unmasking(before that, theres Norman's frameup in post clone saga, Bugle reward money in Millar run that got bad) and well it was bad athough he did got had a friendly relationship with Detective Lamont during JMS run who actually convinced him to escape to rescue MJ in the famous Fraction sensational annual, but i think Im starting to see the crummy side of the force when came the spider-tracer saga, it was so bad that there was a whole conspiracy of cops messing with and planting with evidence on murders scenes so SPidey get the blame(which means the real victims murders wont get solved and the real murderer will get away) and Peter had a roomate who was in on it. I'm sorry i dont BND era and its unlikable characters like Vin, he was a complete jerk, so his sister so the apple doesn't fall from the tree, even though he did the right thing only after he was sold out by his partner and fellow officers to died, yeah I might have miss things but thats probably the era will Spidey dealt with Police corruption and hostility. anyway he made friends with Yuri Watanabe who was friends with Dewolfe another friend on the force and a Chief that hated his guts in Big Time that had his men to shoot first. so far it been hot and cold. Tom Taylor FNS had Shari Sebbens who was a another ally in the force athough she let Spidey know he's not popular with her fellow police. I noticed in Bendis Ultimate Spider-man athough Cops are alot more hostile and trigger happy on our younger incarnation of Peter and its to the point of stupidity, and transfer to 616, in Spider-men, peter stop a robbery with no property damage and police pull their guns at him told him unmask(at the time i was like, jeez, Spidey is a Avengers and the FF, why is he putting up with that crap). well I notice Bendis does in his various different runs and with the current climate right now. im starting understand as I grow older and see whats going on with the news and the Police Brutality and Incompetance, im starting to understand why Spider-man relationship with the Force varies but usually far from friendly. Im not saying all cops are bad, there's good ones athough at this moment the bad ones are getting all the news. and well its chaos. I also got into more older books and saw comics that deal with Police corruption to the point that the cops there might has well have twirling mustache, like Batman Year One. I apologize if im bring a sensitive issue to a Spider-man Forum just wanted to share of realizing how those in the law not always righteous , any thoughts,

    let me not get started on Police in X-men comics, theres more instanced of Police brutality and excessive force especially in Bendis run but we are here to talk about Spider-man

    if its too soon or too sensitive of a subject, please feel free to delete this, i apologized if this is a inappropriate subject, i thought i would be a interesting thread. im sorry i would delete it but my history in CBR i cant seem to delete threads that I made no matter what I tried. i dont know.
    Last edited by Rzerox21xx; 05-30-2020 at 06:22 PM.

  2. #2
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    I would say it's a pretty complicated thing. It didn't help that for years, J. Jonah Jameson demonized Spider-Man in The Daily Bugle as a menace, and being a respected newspaper publisher, his word would carry a lot of weight with a lot of people, so the NYPD being ambivalent on or flat-out hostile to Spider-Man wasn't so much a sign of them being the bad guys as doing their job to prevent a dangerous superpowered outlaw from operating freely, even if said outlaw was fighting the same criminals as them. Funny enough, as you mention, he did accrue police allies as his saga continued, some relatively high up the chain of command, though the better-known ones either died (Captains George Stacy and Jean DeWolff) or went rogue (Lieutenant Stan Carter or Captain Yuri Watanabe). Then there was the arc where the Spider-Tracer Killer was feigned by a bunch of NYPD officers who resented Spider-Man for "making them look bad" or otherwise overshadowing them with his flashier heroics, so they planted his loose tracers on random dead bodies to make it look like a killer was targeting those people to get at Spider-Man, and one of the cops involved later ended up part of the "Goblin gangs" that were coming up during/after Norman Osborn's Dark Reign.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    I would say it's a pretty complicated thing. It didn't help that for years, J. Jonah Jameson demonized Spider-Man in The Daily Bugle as a menace, and being a respected newspaper publisher, his word would carry a lot of weight with a lot of people, so the NYPD being ambivalent on or flat-out hostile to Spider-Man wasn't so much a sign of them being the bad guys as doing their job to prevent a dangerous superpowered outlaw from operating freely, even if said outlaw was fighting the same criminals as them. Funny enough, as you mention, he did accrue police allies as his saga continued, some relatively high up the chain of command, though the better-known ones either died (Captains George Stacy and Jean DeWolff) or went rogue (Lieutenant Stan Carter or Captain Yuri Watanabe). Then there was the arc where the Spider-Tracer Killer was feigned by a bunch of NYPD officers who resented Spider-Man for "making them look bad" or otherwise overshadowing them with his flashier heroics, so they planted his loose tracers on random dead bodies to make it look like a killer was targeting those people to get at Spider-Man, and one of the cops involved later ended up part of the "Goblin gangs" that were coming up during/after Norman Osborn's Dark Reign.
    The Spider-Tracer Killer arc was actually a highlight of the BND era for me, as that story had so much potential and (could have) given Spider-Man a new type of enemy to fight.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebSlingWonder View Post
    The Spider-Tracer Killer arc was actually a highlight of the BND era for me, as that story had so much potential and (could have) given Spider-Man a new type of enemy to fight.
    Exactly, though considering that a few of his allies in law enforcement have broken bad in the past, like Lieutenant Stan Carter as the Sin-Eater and Captain Yuri Watanabe as Wraith, maybe he should take a second look. Then again, we do get to see more of his viewpoint on law enforcement as it currently stands in Chip Zdarsky's Daredevil, where having been targeted by the NYPD in the past, he's run out of patience for them treating Daredevil as a criminal when the Kingpin of Crime is currently serving as "Mayor Fisk."
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  5. #5
    Spider-Fan Since '95 WebSlingWonder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Exactly, though considering that a few of his allies in law enforcement have broken bad in the past, like Lieutenant Stan Carter as the Sin-Eater and Captain Yuri Watanabe as Wraith, maybe he should take a second look. Then again, we do get to see more of his viewpoint on law enforcement as it currently stands in Chip Zdarsky's Daredevil, where having been targeted by the NYPD in the past, he's run out of patience for them treating Daredevil as a criminal when the Kingpin of Crime is currently serving as "Mayor Fisk."
    And that's a totally understandable reaction! I really wish they did more with that.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebSlingWonder View Post
    And that's a totally understandable reaction! I really wish they did more with that.
    Yeah, same. I mean, going back to Daredevil, it's been shown in both the comics and the TV series that Fisk has a lot of cops (and other law enforcement officers) in his pocket whether he's "Mayor Fisk" or "the Kingpin," and in light of the longstanding friendship between Daredevil and Spider-Man, one would think DD would give him a heads-up.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  7. #7
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    There was this article on the Spider-Man PS4 game that came out when it did. It caused a lot of stir online.
    https://theconcourse.deadspin.com/th...cks-1828944087

    It did strike me that the PS4 game made Spider-Man more pro-police than the comics or for that matter the Spider-Man 2000 Activision game (where there was an extended chase sequence of cops firing at Spider-Man and you crawling up a wall and avoiding police searchlights). Miles Morales' father becoming a police officer (which he wasn't in Bendis' original USM comics) in the PS4 game as well as ITSV is maybe more interesting in that regard. On the other hand, the latter third of the game has New York under a militarized Private Military Security Force who take on the more traditional anti-Police function so that part of the game does go into territory that's more familiar.


    In the comics, I think the most important issues to consider about Spider-Man and the police is ASM#91-92, the Sam Bullitt saga, which made Spider-Man an enemy and opponent to white supremacy and fought a corrupt and racist DA who campaigned on a "law and order" campaign (identified explicitly as a dog whistle).

    The most recent Spider-Man issue, ASM#43 by Nick Spencer in fact has a moment where Spider-Man finds himself on the other side of the law, and defends someone from a zealous trigger-happy police.

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    Dwayne McDuffie could have written a great story examining this topic, whether subtly or blatantly. I wish he could have written Spider-Man full time. Rest in peace, Maestro.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypestyle View Post
    Dwayne McDuffie could have written a great story examining this topic, whether subtly or blatantly. I wish he could have written Spider-Man full time. Rest in peace, Maestro.
    He was great.

    Still, I think this topic is too big. It's too big to be dealt with in the superhero genre.

    Superhero comics as a genre are fundamentally opposed to ordinary people rising up spontaneously and acting out against injustice. The genre pivots around special individual heroes acting as guardians/protectors/defenders.

    So a real-life issue like the one that inspired the OP is not really something that can be meaningfully tackled in the genre. And that's no slag against superhero comics btw. Not all genres can deal with all issues. Superheroes can speak against broader issues and contexts and Spider-Man comics have done that occassionally.

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    Op needs to be split into more paragraphs.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    He was great.

    Still, I think this topic is too big. It's too big to be dealt with in the superhero genre.

    Superhero comics as a genre are fundamentally opposed to ordinary people rising up spontaneously and acting out against injustice. The genre pivots around special individual heroes acting as guardians/protectors/defenders.

    So a real-life issue like the one that inspired the OP is not really something that can be meaningfully tackled in the genre. And that's no slag against superhero comics btw. Not all genres can deal with all issues. Superheroes can speak against broader issues and contexts and Spider-Man comics have done that occassionally.
    One of the worst periods in our Country’s history was the Great Depression. Hollywood responded with uplifting films to help people forget problems for a little while ( Shirley Temple for example). Now the entertainment industry actually runs movies about viruses, wall to wall coverage of the George Floyd incident and its aftermath, and pushes stay inside down our throats ( I cannot even put on ESPN without hearing about the protests).If people want to hear about these things there is always the news. For those tired of it: We need an escape, so please let’s keep Spider-Man free from the real world.
    Last edited by NC_Yankee; 06-01-2020 at 05:33 AM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC_Yankee View Post
    One of the worst periods in our Country’s history was the Great Depression. Hollywood responded with uplifting films to help people forget problems for a little while ( Shirley Temple for example).
    During the Great Depression, people went to movies for everything [Newsreel, Animation, Movies of Every Genre]. The Shirley Temple movies were only some of the stuff made at the time and not the whole thing. Newsreels which played at the theaters, covered all kinds of real issues. There were also a lot of serious, dark, films dealing with poverty, unemployment and crime. One of the most popular genres in this decade was the gangster film (which actually was created in this era). There was also films like The Grapes of Wrath, based on a best-selling novel of that decade.

    So it's not true in the least, that Hollywood in the 30s solely tried to distract and make people forget.

    Now the entertainment industry actually runs movies about viruses,
    The other thing is that the Depression was a period where you had a censorship office and where consumers had little avenue to make their voices and demands known. Unlike today. So people now have the choice to stream Contagion (which is the highest streaming success during this pandemic and its entirely down to viewer choice and preference).

    For those tired of it: We need an escape, so please let’s keep Spider-Man free from the real world.
    Stan Lee himself wrote issues where Spider-Man tackled white supremacy. He did that in ASM#91-92.

    Stan Lee was not a political man himself, mind you. He tackled those issues in Spider-Man because readers and audiences wanted it to be addressed and there was a need to talk and discuss that in the pages of Spider-Man.

    So simple market forces dictate that when society takes a political turn, the mainstream popular culture has to reflect that turn if only to continue to remain mainstream and popular.

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    [QUOTE=Revolutionary_Jack;4993115]During the Great Depression, people went to movies for everything [Newsreel, Animation, Movies of Every Genre]. The Shirley Temple movies were only some of the stuff made at the time and not the whole thing. Newsreels which played at the theaters, covered all kinds of real issues. There were also a lot of serious, dark, films dealing with poverty, unemployment and crime. One of the most popular genres in this decade was the gangster film (which actually was created in this era). There was also films like The Grapes of Wrath, based on a best-selling novel of that decade.

    So it's not true in the least, that Hollywood in the 30s solely tried to distract and make people forget.



    The other thing is that the Depression was a period where you had a censorship office and where consumers had little avenue to make their voices and demands known. Unlike today. So people now have the choice to stream Contagion (which is the highest streaming success during this pandemic and its entirely down to viewer choice and preference).



    Stan Lee himself wrote issues where Spider-Man tackled white supremacy. He did that in ASM#91-92.

    Stan Lee was not a political man himself, mind you. He tackled those issues in Spider-Man because readers and audiences wanted it to be addressed and there was a need to talk and discuss that in the pages of Spider-Man.

    So simple market forces dictate that when society takes a political turn, the mainstream popular culture has to reflect that turn if only to continue to remain mainstream and popular.[/QUOTE
    Here are some points: 1: The Hays office did not start censorship until mid 1934 ( so there was a Pre-Code period between the beginning of the Depression ( 1929) and the censorship). 2: I love films from the 1930’s ( especially Gangster films with Cagney, Robinson and Bogart, and almost anything starring Myrna Loy)), I know there were also “Socially Conscious” movies like ‘Our Daily Bread’ and ‘The Wet Parade’ ( with Myrna Loy), but you had a diversity of entertainment choices : There was escapism like King Kong, ‘The Most Dangerous Game’ ( the inspiration for Kraven The Hunter), and Flash Gordon ( as well great horror movies from Universal and Paramount ( not just Shirley Temple). Many of us need a break from the depressing events of 2020, and Spider-Man helps to fill that need. I understand things happen ( 9/11 issue) but now is not the time.
    Last edited by NC_Yankee; 06-01-2020 at 07:05 AM.

  14. #14
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC_Yankee View Post
    Here are some points: 1: The Hays office did not start censorship until mid 1934 ( so there was a Pre-Code period between the beginning of the Depression ( 1929) and the censorship).
    We were talking about the 30s as a whole, right? In the Pre-Code era you had Busby Berkeley musicals, and his movies addressed poverty and violence. Like "Remember My Forgotten Man" a musical number about the veterans march to Washington.

    There was escapism like King Kong,
    Which also dealt with the Depression. The opening scenes, the reason why Denham is able to put together his crazy quest is because Fay Wray and others are really poor and they are desperate.

    Many of us need a break from the depressing events of 2020,
    Well it's hard for anyone to give you that break when the majority of entertainment media and outlets are shut down and production's stopped across the board, people are getting laid off or "furloughed" (i.e. slow-motion layoff).

    ...and Spider-Man helps to fill that need.
    Are you trying to say that we shouldn't discuss real life issues in a Spider-Man board, or that specifically Spider-Man comics don't address real issues. You are conflating the two I think.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    We were talking about the 30s as a whole, right? In the Pre-Code era you had Busby Berkeley musicals, and his movies addressed poverty and violence. Like "Remember My Forgotten Man" a musical number about the veterans march to Washington.



    Which also dealt with the Depression. The opening scenes, the reason why Denham is able to put together his crazy quest is because Fay Wray and others are really poor and they are desperate.



    Well it's hard for anyone to give you that break when the majority of entertainment media and outlets are shut down and production's stopped across the board, people are getting laid off or "furloughed" (i.e. slow-motion layoff).



    Are you trying to say that we shouldn't discuss real life issues in a Spider-Man board, or that specifically Spider-Man comics don't address real issues. You are conflating the two I think.
    I cannot talk about Busby Berkeley because musicals are my least favorite genre, and I remember that scene from Kong, but the main purpose ( besides making money) of King Kong and a number of other Fay Wray films was escapism ( Doctor X and Black Moon for example) were entertainment and escapism. That said, the issue of public safety versus individual freedoms requires balance ( and balance is needed Why? You cannot turn the US into the USSR or have anarchy ( both extremes are terrible and will cause another Civil War). But that discussion is above my pay grade, andvshould not be for Spider-Man. Give me Kindred and Mary Jane versus Felicia and Gwen instead.

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