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  1. #91
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    [QUOTE=Huntsman Spider;4997203]Yeah, that would be pretty cool to see, though given Priest's tendencies to delve deep into moral gray zones and somewhat deconstruct highly idealized characters held up as paragons of heroism --- often depicting them as naive, self-righteous, and out of touch with the realities experienced and endured by "real people" --- I could see him putting Spidey/Peter through a hell of a wringer in the process.

    Priest created Francis Tork another good cop from his Falcon mini-series that he put in his brief Spidey run in the 80s.

    https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Francis_Tork_(Earth-616)

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaitou D. Kid View Post
    It's funny. I get a lot of flak whenever I bring up how much the MCU appropriated from Miles. I mean, from my experience, this opinion is dismissed most of the time as a nitpick.
    People tend to be overly defensive of the MCU and refuse to accept any criticism.

    There's also a group of fans (and editors) who reject the obvious fact that Miles' popularity and existence as a high school Spider-Man means that Peter has to grow up and be older since someone else has taken the spot of "teenage Spider-Man" for good.

  3. #93
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    I remember reading a blog post that stated that people that look like Miles are more likely to be attacked by superheroes than helped by them.

    Also there's this article about superheroes and white supremacy

    Superman is a White Boy
    by J. Lamb (Snoopy Jenkins)


    And if you read comic books where men incite hope by flying unassisted with flapping scarlet capes or watch trained martial artists shoot arrows with perfect accuracy at moving targets or enjoy quirky teenage Millennials spray spiderwebs to swing through Manhattan like frenzied lost acrobats, chances are this monochrome status quo does not faze. How can it? White people are the stars and the scenery in comic books, the standard and the outlier. If comics, like all speculative fiction, imagine a recognizable tomorrow today, the American comic industry – Warner Brothers executives and DC Comics editors and Justice League of America pencillers and Wednesday single-issue comic buyers alike – continues to print and purchase stories set in a world where humanity is White and human variation is never heroic.
    Race and gender minority superheroes present pale knockoffs of the White male power fantasies that transcended comic panels decades ago. What was Manhunter but a low budget Nightwing who replaced the tonfa with a glowing metal rod? Under Reginald Hudlin’s pen, Black Panther explicitly devolved into an African Captain America, known more for marrying the most famous African superhero in American comics than his own exploits. Often it’s more obvious than the Panther: Bruce Wayne, Hal Jordan and Tony Stark all have protégé heroes of color whose diversity splash carbon copies their predecessors’ methods and abilities. Cassandra Cain, John Stewart and James Rhodes vary widely in popularity; in comics, ancient history trumps modern innovation. Nothing ever really changes in panel, so audiences are trained to prefer old-money discipline, test-pilot adrenaline, and Silicon Valley snark over high-melanin’s mute, brooding, and warlike.
    In our world, the most famous, most powerful, most influential superhero ever devised is a straight White man. Here, meaningful diversity in superhero comics is not possible. The superhero concept is a racial construct, used primarily to derive profit from printing White male power fantasies ad nauseam for a core audience of ostracized children. Nostalgia generates revenue. Lest we forget, the 616 Universe and the New 52 write action dramas that operate under certain observable laws.
    https://snoopyjenkins.wordpress.com/...s-a-white-boy/

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post


    A great episode of Amazing Spider-Talk where Mark and Dan talk to Brian Jacob (The Ultimate Spin) and Donovan Morgan Grant (Questions: We Don't Have Answers), longtime active Spider-Man fans. They talk about Spider-Man and race issues, Spider-Man and police issues, how Brian and Donovan, as two black fans feel about Spider-Man comics and the history of representation and real issues. Basically cover what we all have been discussing in some detail on this thread.

    Highlights include:
    -- Discussing Miles Morales and how Bendis and Saladin Ahmed portrayed him and ITSV.
    -- ASM#91-92 the Sam Bullitt two-parter as a classic that holds up for denouncing white supremacy.
    -- ASM#21 Annual where MJ's wedding dress was made by a gay African-American fashion designer Willi Smith as another major moment of representation.
    -- The fact that Spider-Man's supporting cast could use more diversity on the whole.
    -- Issues with the Rocket Racer character and Len Wein's run, as well as parts of Conway's run.
    -- The Punisher is plainly irredemable even if Brian Jacob admits he was a fan of the character growing up.

    The episode is going to donate revenue to the Black Lives Matter movement, and they left a link below and I will repost it here in case anyone wants to donate there.
    https://blacklivesmatters.carrd.co/
    Don! He's like one of my favorite guys to hear talk about Spidey .
    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    People tend to be overly defensive of the MCU and refuse to accept any criticism.

    There's also a group of fans (and editors) who reject the obvious fact that Miles' popularity and existence as a high school Spider-Man means that Peter has to grow up and be older since someone else has taken the spot of "teenage Spider-Man" for good.
    Well, maybe not "for good," but I think it does lend to the idea that not every version of Peter in media needs to be a teenager.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    I remember reading a blog post that stated that people that look like Miles are more likely to be attacked by superheroes than helped by them.

    Also there's this article about superheroes and white supremacy

    Superman is a White Boy
    by J. Lamb (Snoopy Jenkins)








    https://snoopyjenkins.wordpress.com/...s-a-white-boy/
    Well, this takes a very depressing view of things...

  5. #95
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Rzerox21xx;4997519]
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Yeah, that would be pretty cool to see, though given Priest's tendencies to delve deep into moral gray zones and somewhat deconstruct highly idealized characters held up as paragons of heroism --- often depicting them as naive, self-righteous, and out of touch with the realities experienced and endured by "real people" --- I could see him putting Spidey/Peter through a hell of a wringer in the process.

    Priest created Francis Tork another good cop from his Falcon mini-series that he put in his brief Spidey run in the 80s.

    https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Francis_Tork_(Earth-616)
    Thanks. Sounds like an intriguing character.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    I remember reading a blog post that stated that people that look like Miles are more likely to be attacked by superheroes than helped by them.

    Also there's this article about superheroes and white supremacy

    Superman is a White Boy
    by J. Lamb (Snoopy Jenkins)








    https://snoopyjenkins.wordpress.com/...s-a-white-boy/
    Depressing, yeah, but considering the seeming legions of angry fanboys that crop up to scream their outrage every time a female, racial/ethnic minority, or LGBT+ character becomes more prominent in comics, often by taking up the mantle of a superhero that originated as a white male character, not entirely without merit.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  6. #96
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    I hated Vin, funny when he ended up doing the right thing after his partner screwed him over and Spidey had to saved his ass from Prison murder. I remember the one chance he can redeemed himself well, he ended up being Goblin supremacist and threatened Harry 2nd son. Yeah happy to never see him or his sister(I dont know why Peter was complaining about Fred, he's so much better than her as a roomate) ever again, if they do get brought back, maybe as a creepy Lancaster-like relationship like the Struckers twins in Marvel have, I did noticed in his last issue when he return to the station as a ex cop, he was ostracized by the other officers for snitching on the other cops involved in the spider-tracer conspiracy. I was talking to a friend that there a corrupt code that even if you doing the right thing, snitching on your fellow officers for doing something wrong well get you ill-will from the other cops. the whole concept snitches get stitches. sounds messed up

  7. #97
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rzerox21xx View Post
    I hated Vin, funny when he ended up doing the right thing after his partner screwed him over and Spidey had to saved his ass from Prison murder. I remember the one chance he can redeemed himself well, he ended up being Goblin supremacist and threatened Harry 2nd son. Yeah happy to never see him or his sister(I dont know why Peter was complaining about Fred, he's so much better than her as a roomate) ever again, if they do get brought back, maybe as a creepy Lancaster-like relationship like the Struckers twins in Marvel have, I did noticed in his last issue when he return to the station as a ex cop, he was ostracized by the other officers for snitching on the other cops involved in the spider-tracer conspiracy. I was talking to a friend that there a corrupt code that even if you doing the right thing, snitching on your fellow officers for doing something wrong well get you ill-will from the other cops. the whole concept snitches get stitches. sounds messed up
    Pretty much this. "Snitches get stitches" is what criminals tell each other and others in the neighborhoods/territories where they operate, so what would it say about the police that they (seem to) adhere to the same basic ethos? And funny enough, didn't Vin end up in his last issue revealing to Harry Osborn that he'd joined one of the Goblin gangs started up by Harry's dad Norman, the Green Goblin?
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Pretty much this. "Snitches get stitches" is what criminals tell each other and others in the neighborhoods/territories where they operate, so what would it say about the police that they (seem to) adhere to the same basic ethos? And funny enough, didn't Vin end up in his last issue revealing to Harry Osborn that he'd joined one of the Goblin gangs started up by Harry's dad Norman, the Green Goblin?
    yeah he became a Goblin Supremacist and he threatened Harry about his 2nd son and Harry just tased that SOB, and thats the last we saw of him.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rzerox21xx View Post
    yeah he became a Goblin Supremacist and he threatened Harry about his 2nd son and Harry just tased that SOB, and thats the last we saw of him.
    I think that was pretty much his best moment other than risking his life in Go Down Swinging to prove to his son Normie (who'd been corrupted by his grandfather and namesake into the Goblin Childe) that he really did love and care for him.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post


    A great episode of Amazing Spider-Talk where Mark and Dan talk to Brian Jacob (The Ultimate Spin) and Donovan Morgan Grant (Questions: We Don't Have Answers), longtime active Spider-Man fans. They talk about Spider-Man and race issues, Spider-Man and police issues, how Brian and Donovan, as two black fans feel about Spider-Man comics and the history of representation and real issues. Basically cover what we all have been discussing in some detail on this thread.

    Highlights include:
    -- Discussing Miles Morales and how Bendis and Saladin Ahmed portrayed him and ITSV.
    -- ASM#91-92 the Sam Bullitt two-parter as a classic that holds up for denouncing white supremacy.
    -- ASM#21 Annual where MJ's wedding dress was made by a gay African-American fashion designer Willi Smith as another major moment of representation.
    -- The fact that Spider-Man's supporting cast could use more diversity on the whole.
    -- Issues with the Rocket Racer character and Len Wein's run, as well as parts of Conway's run.
    -- The Punisher is plainly irredemable even if Brian Jacob admits he was a fan of the character growing up.

    The episode is going to donate revenue to the Black Lives Matter movement, and they left a link below and I will repost it here in case anyone wants to donate there.
    https://blacklivesmatters.carrd.co/
    Thanks for posting this. Some great causes. I would encourage anyone here to consider donating if they have the means.

  11. #101

  12. #102
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    The spider is always on the hunt.

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    There was this article on the Spider-Man PS4 game that came out when it did. It caused a lot of stir online.
    https://theconcourse.deadspin.com/th...cks-1828944087

    It did strike me that the PS4 game made Spider-Man more pro-police than the comics or for that matter the Spider-Man 2000 Activision game (where there was an extended chase sequence of cops firing at Spider-Man and you crawling up a wall and avoiding police searchlights). Miles Morales' father becoming a police officer (which he wasn't in Bendis' original USM comics) in the PS4 game as well as ITSV is maybe more interesting in that regard. On the other hand, the latter third of the game has New York under a militarized Private Military Security Force who take on the more traditional anti-Police function so that part of the game does go into territory that's more familiar.


    In the comics, I think the most important issues to consider about Spider-Man and the police is ASM#91-92, the Sam Bullitt saga, which made Spider-Man an enemy and opponent to white supremacy and fought a corrupt and racist DA who campaigned on a "law and order" campaign (identified explicitly as a dog whistle).

    The most recent Spider-Man issue, ASM#43 by Nick Spencer in fact has a moment where Spider-Man finds himself on the other side of the law, and defends someone from a zealous trigger-happy police.
    Also, mentioning Spider-Gwen, whose father was a cop and was after his own daughter without knowing she was Spider-Gwen.

    On the subject of cops and Spider-Man, I think it was the mask. Because Spidey hid his face, it made him a suspicious character, while Cap and Thor showed their face. Another thing is that Spidey didn’t culture good relationships with beat cops, running away and not helping to make police reports, so making prosecutions difficult. Spidey couldn’t defend himself from unfair accusations so rode out the infamy he had with the cops. He always scurried away, and intensified his enmity between him and the cops.

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackolover View Post
    On the subject of cops and Spider-Man, I think it was the mask. Because Spidey hid his face, it made him a suspicious character, while Cap and Thor showed their face.
    Well Iron Man had a full face covering mask too and until the 2000s his identity was a public secret. Daredevil also has a mask and he's not as hounded-by-police as Spider-Man is.

    Spider-Man being a masked figure was important because a lot of African-Americans related to him, and the stories of Spider-Man being scapegoated by the media and police obviously resonated with them strongly.

    Another thing is that Spidey didn’t culture good relationships with beat cops,
    Maybe if Spider-Man strictly operated in ghettoes and attacked minorities, he would have better relations. I think the fact Spider-Man went around stopping crime in Manhattan and other tony areas and that his villains tend to be old white dudes (the kind who tend to be lawyerd up) probably adds to a sense of why the police feel they have to go after him more than others.

    ...running away and not helping to make police reports, so making prosecutions difficult.
    Well as we discussed earlier, in real law that wouldn't be how it went down. The comics use that angle to create drama but it's more a story convention (to recycle villains and threats) than any realistic attempt at the downsides of vigilantism. Christos Gage pointed out that in life Charles Manson was arrested, went to jail, and died. But in comics, a Manson-like villain would roam around and escape justice in unrealistic ways.

  15. #105
    Ultimate Member jackolover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    I remember reading a blog post that stated that people that look like Miles are more likely to be attacked by superheroes than helped by them.

    Also there's this article about superheroes and white supremacy

    Superman is a White Boy
    by J. Lamb (Snoopy Jenkins)








    https://snoopyjenkins.wordpress.com/...s-a-white-boy/
    This is a nice blog. A lot here has relevance, and a lot of thought has been put into this podcast. I like it. You can’t help imparting whiteness into supernhero comics because the Golden Age and Silver Age started out in the pre-Activism period, and it’s difficult to inject diversity in this landscape that already harbours whiteness conditioning.

    In today’s comics, its hard to divorce yourself from the history that came before. How much of our beloved characters have been part of the culture that denied racial equality? It’s very difficult to acknowledge this, but I think it has to done. It scares me how this will be achieved, but I’ll be glad when it does happen.

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