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  1. #46
    Astonishing Member Glio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Did she bring back the people that were likely killed by him within 5 minutes? I think not considering Xavier was left dead



    Um no. His goal at that point was to burn the world down, and nothing that was done to him justified him trying to take everything out.
    The thing is, we don't even know how many deaths there were, if any. They were never mentioned. It is like when the Hulk destroys a city and nobody dies. In fact Captain America says "you have several crimes against you but killing Xavier is probably the most important".

    I just checked AvsX and in fact Captain America says "you have several crimes against you but killing Xavier is probably the most important".

    Either the lives of people other than Xavier did not matter as much to them or it was material damage. And anyway, even in the worst case, he was full Dark Phoenix. The few moments he was in control he was begging the heroes to kill him so as not to harm anyone else. In all the subsequent status quo they only mention "the murder of Charles Xavier" and "putting the Earth in danger".

    Killing Xavier was not Dark Phoenix, it was only full Phoenix, so it was the only thing they had the slightest chance of Scott losing a trial. And yet, as they dive into AvsX Consequencies, Scott probably would have won the trial.

    So the United States planned to murder him in prison. This is how they have historically done against the leaders of social movements, not law, just murder.
    Last edited by Glio; 05-31-2020 at 02:54 PM.

  2. #47
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    The thing is, we don't even know how many deaths there were, if any. They were never mentioned. It is like when the Hulk destroys a city and nobody dies. In fact Captain America says "you have several crimes against you but killing Xavier is probably the most important".

    I just checked AvsX and in fact Captain America says "you have several crimes against you but killing Xavier is probably the most important".

    Either the lives of people other than Xavier did not matter as much to them or it was material damage. And anyway, even in the worst case, he was full Dark Phoenix. The few moments he was in control he was begging the heroes to kill him so as not to harm anyone else. In all the subsequent status quo they only mention "the murder of Charles Xavier" and "putting the Earth in danger".

    Killing Xavier was not Dark Phoenix, it was only full Phoenix, so it was the only thing they had the slightest chance of Scott losing a trial. And yet, as they dive into AvsX Consequencies, Scott probably would have won the trial.

    So the United States planned to murder him in prison. This is how they have historically done against the leaders of social movements, not law, just murder.
    Have you ever been to the Sydney Opera House? I have and that place is crowded with tourists. Its naive to think no one in Sydny or any other city was killed during that rampage


  3. #48
    Mighty Member Frobisher's Avatar
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    The only book Cyclops has read is Watchmen and he won’t shut up about it.

  4. #49
    Mighty Member dkrook's Avatar
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    This is a session of Intellectual masturbation. There are barely any black male mutants so how is any to give examples of police brutality????? Conversely the one black male of note in X-Men, Bishop happens to be a very good cop from the future.
    Last edited by dkrook; 05-31-2020 at 03:56 PM.

  5. #50
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    I’d argue that they aren’t that anymore. But yes, they were basically the mutant police for way too long.
    They have a police force on Krakoa though, right? So there's still policing going on even if it's in a different sense in their own nation rather then how it used to be in New York.

    The X-Men have kind of always been balanced on fighting humans trying to kill them and evil Mutants.

  6. #51
    Astonishing Member Glio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Have you ever been to the Sydney Opera House? I have and that place is crowded with tourists. Its naive to think no one in Sydny or any other city was killed during that rampage

    Just like the Hulk is always wrecking shit but almost never kills someone.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkrook View Post
    This is a session of Intellectual masturbation. There are barely any black male mutants so how is any to give examples of police brutality????? Conversely the one black male of note in X-Men, Bishop happens to be a very good cop from the future.
    they literally tried to fuck over the one prominent black male mutant aka Bishop who's branded with an M on his eye (reminiscent of the tattoos and brands on jewish people in nazi germany). They made him a cop in civil war, and later had him commit genocide in the future while chasing hope and cable. Luckily the latter story is retconned as due to the demon bear's influence

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ichijinijisanji View Post
    they literally tried to fuck over the one prominent black male mutant aka Bishop who's branded with an M on his eye (reminiscent of the tattoos and brands on jewish people in nazi germany). They made him a cop in civil war, and later had him commit genocide in the future while chasing hope and cable. Luckily the latter story is retconned as due to the demon bear's influence
    I wasn't expecting such a turnout, i guess with the first reply i thought I made the wrong thread and offended everyone but i'm glad it was the opposite and this started a interesting thread. yeah I think Batman Year One had the most evil cops in most fiction to the point that their villainly was so obvious that they willing to blackmail Gordon by kidnapping his child just to keep the status qou and one swat officer which is known by having his entire swat team wipe out everyone even people they are suppose they saved.

  9. #54
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkrook View Post
    This is a session of Intellectual masturbation. There are barely any black male mutants so how is any to give examples of police brutality????? Conversely the one black male of note in X-Men, Bishop happens to be a very good cop from the future.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ichijinijisanji View Post
    they literally tried to fuck over the one prominent black male mutant aka Bishop who's branded with an M on his eye (reminiscent of the tattoos and brands on jewish people in nazi germany). They made him a cop in civil war, and later had him commit genocide in the future while chasing hope and cable. Luckily the latter story is retconned as due to the demon bear's influence
    From what I recall, Generation X's Synch's first appearance involved an encounter with police that could have gone fatally badly for him, and yes, he got killed off at the end of Generation X, then finally brought back in Jonathan Hickman's X-Men . . . only to not be heard from since what was being hyped as his big moment to shine.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Have you ever been to the Sydney Opera House? I have and that place is crowded with tourists. Its naive to think no one in Sydny or any other city was killed during that rampage

    It would account to thousands of deaths instead of just xavier if that actually resulted in something except for collateral though.
    The alternative is hope saved them before they died, or revived them, but focused primarily on the non-combatants or innocents.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by coveredinbees View Post
    The original X-Factor didn't work for the government but acted like private investigators/vigilantes taking mutant cases the police couldn't handle. We all know how disastrous they were. They were basically mutant police.
    They were being manipulated by the Right. They were simply the first group of offical mutant police, doing up front what they are doing in secret in Stan Lee's run. This isn't about how disastrous they were it's about whether they were police, and the 05 did this twice. Now, what about the other X-factor rosters?

    They did have issues with the police, but IIRC those were more after they changed their tactic to clearly protecting mutants instead of pretending to imprison them. They kept their popularity with civilians until Ship blocked off the sun from Manhattan.
    Yup.

    Moira and Xavier used to lock up harmful mutants. She had an underground prison complex/rehabilitation center under Muir Island where she kept baby Magneto and Unus the Untouchable.

    The X-Men tried to work with police and the government, but never trusted them. Spider-Man leaves criminals for the police, but the X-Men often handle things themselves. Trying to get on with the police hasn't benefited them in the long run. The police and government continually screw them. They had to make their own country to get fair legislation.
    But they did work with them. Which has often blew up in their face since they have no prison system to keep the criminals they catch so they continuous fight people like Sinister. They didn't progress because Marvel relies on the status quo of mutants being hated and feared being maintained, otherwise nothing distinguishes X-men for any other super-hero team. Which country? They've had three so far and Krakoa isn't known for its legislation.

    Justice, Rusty Collins and Wither both went to court for killing or maiming accidentally with their powers. The polics, Freedom Force and the Navy were very cruel to Rusty.
    True.

    Freedom Force are another group of mutants who worked for the government.

  12. #57
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    yeah in Claremont/Davis run in 2004 Uncanny. Logan and Kurt tried to worked with the police responding a mutant crisis, Kurt even show his badge and it get thrown back in his face by the officer who made his racist views obvious. They had no choice but to take matters into their own hands go inside the burning building and well Logan was hurt by the mutant and when the police found the wounded Logan, they assume he was a threat and beat him and arrested him and Kurt a second later, the mutant kid didnt make it and it took Carol Danvers as Ms Marvel to diffuse the situation and had the cops let both Logan and Kurt go, although you do see the hostile chief get chewed out in the background.
    Last edited by Rzerox21xx; 05-31-2020 at 08:10 PM.

  13. #58
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Freedom Force are another group of mutants who worked for the government.
    They even got to arrest two Avengers teams together.

  14. #59
    The Best There Is Wolverine12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    Why did you delete my comment about real history? There’s nothing wrong with historical context.
    I gave a reason. Also context matters. End of discussion.
    You brought back Wolverine

    The CBR Community Standards a.k.a how to get along.

  15. #60
    Astonishing Member Glio's Avatar
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    Historically, the times that mutants have collaborated with the government and the police have ended badly. Remember when San Francisco almost stabbed Utopia in the back in Fear Itself?

    And you just have to see how the police react to seeing a mutant, they point their guns first and ask questions later.

    So, it is justified that mutants have no interest in collaborating or trusting them.

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