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  1. #106
    Astonishing Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    It's a great example of police brutality in comic books, no doubt. However, rather than engage further the picture provides no subtlety - it's an emotional charged image few people are going to argue with and since that's the bulk of the post there is no context for details. It's a simple yes or no question.
    Eh I meeean one could say since they didnt just start shooting Synch, its an example of police restraint rather than brutality.not tryna to make a statement or anything, just posting an image from a team book I enjoyed...
    I'm stopping right here the whole rest of your post reads rather straw man-ish...as I wasn't tryna to argue the legitimacy...jurisdiction...or Function of any X-team Government approved or otherwise
    GrindrStone(D)

  2. #107
    Mighty Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    It's a great example of police brutality in comic books, no doubt.
    Is it? We are talking about law enforcement in a world of telepaths, telekinesists and other niceties…

    They don't maim him, they are talking with him. The number of guns is made to look excessive and, surely, a proof of their fear of him, as he says.
    With someone like Magneto, it would be useless and certainly not excessive.

    The context is absent: we don't know what happened before, what happens after.

  3. #108
    Libre. People Of The Earth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rzerox21xx View Post
    i figure with the current climate going on, it might be fun to made a thread to talk about the various examples of X-MEN comics where there friends in the force or just plain hostility.

    a few examples.

    1. The few cops we saw in God Loves Man Kills, especially the one cop that shot Reverend Stryker who was about to shoot Kitty.
    2. Tom Corsi(who was awkwardly racebended from Caucasian to Native American)
    3. The one cop that praise Sunsport for helping out a rescue even though everyone was thanking She-hulk, thats a good one.
    4. The rookie cop that show remorse over shooting a mutant dead during the Massacre saga in the last X-factor of that crossover. he was really broken up by it and when he saw her use her powers he fire.
    5. forgot Misty Knight in the 70s. screw it doesnt have to be in order.
    6. Charlotte Jones who dated Warren and was a allied, she even got the hookup of body armor of a basic x-uniform.
    7. The 1 Cop in Texas that defended Storm from a lynch mob after she was making sure debris from the explosion of Forge building. that was a cool moment
    8. The one cop in Joe mad first Phalanx issue that helped Storm.
    9 the 2 cops that were helped by Storm and Marrow in Seagle and Kelly x-men run.
    10. Bishop partner in Mutant town


    i might have missed quite a number

    for the most part, the x-men and mutants in general dont get the warmest welcome from the police. they often get shot at too, so I leave you to show incidents, i mean what i can think of, well heres 3. 1. Cops in mutant massacre that were praising x-factor especially the one cop that dont event trust the avengers and think they are as bad any mutant. 2. early in Claremont/David 3rd Uncanny run, Wolverine and Nightcrawler trying to diffuse a situation where met with hostility and arrest despite being official and having badges. it took Carol Danver coming in and telling them to let both of them call, 3. so many in Bendis run but the one thats a pure police brutality was when I forgot the mutant who control vehicles, he got shot and is dying and the cops happy he's dying and goading, he would have died if Magik and the Cuckoos hadnt shown and gave them a taste of hell. or the cops that arrested teen Bobby in the ultimate universe for stopping a giant monsters and made their anti-mutant view very blanant well thats alot.

    anyway as i read more x-men and spiderman and at first years ago I wonder why alot of the times Cops are trigger happy aholes and often get surprised when i see a good cop but as I see in the news nowadays since recently in the 2010s, im starting to see the sad reality that whats portray in comics is not far from the truth and everything is not black and white. hell i just recently watched batman year one and the kind of police corruption in it, the cops there that is not Commissioner Gordon are so obviously evil, they might has well have mustache twirling habits.
    Beyond corruption that is a 1:1 fair comparison that can be made, I Don't think you can compare how the police and some of its officers reacts in the MU to how the police and some of its officers reacts IRL.

    Some posters hate it when it's pointed out but, whenever they awaken their powers for the first time, mutants can potentially harm and kill the people in their direct vicinity depending on the nature of their new powers.
    That's not the case of human beings IRL and that's what makes both contexts different… The equivalency between the two situations is superficial at best.
    Skin color, sexual orientation, gender, religious beliefs, political affiliation - those traits aren't a danger in themselves, the way guns or explosives are IRL, or the way superstrength or psychic powers are in comics.
    The threshold for abuses is also higher as a result.

    Being wary of mutants in-universe is actually understandable.
    Being wary of people IRL because of their skin color, sexual orientation, etc. isn't on the other hand.

    That being said, you asked for examples of police brutality and/or police cooperation ("good" cop), so I'll indulge with the later:

    That time the X-Men worked with the police on the murder of Jumbo Carnation.




    That time two officers were standing between a mob and Emma' students at Salem.

    "The means are as important as the end - we have to do this right or not at all.
    Anything less negates every belief we've ever had, every sacrifice we've ever made."


    "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely."

    "No justice, no peace."

  4. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroHomo View Post
    Eh I meeean one could say since they didnt just start shooting Synch, its an example of police restraint rather than brutality.not tryna to make a statement or anything, just posting an image from a team book I enjoyed...
    Which is why it's important to establish your opinion with context. If I hadn't asked you wouldn't be telling us this.

    I'm stopping right here the whole rest of your post reads rather straw man-ish...as I wasn't tryna to argue the legitimacy...jurisdiction...or Function of any X-team Government approved or otherwise
    You seem reluctant to discuss it, period. It's strange why you want to ignore Lorna's past as a cop in X-Factor.

  5. #110
    Astonishing Member Veitha's Avatar
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    How is DoX X-Factor a police corp? They're acting on behalf of Krakoa to find out who's really dead so they can be put into the Resurrection pipeline. That's it. They're not working to mantain public order or going after criminals. Investigation work makes you a cop? Is Jessica Jones a cop?

    Is this an overcomplicated attempt to paint the X-men as hypocrites because they've worked with police forces before?
    Last edited by Veitha; 06-04-2020 at 03:09 AM.

  6. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veitha View Post
    How is DoX X-Factor a police corp? They're acting on behalf of Krakoa to find out who's really dead so they can be put into the Resurrection pipeline. That's it. They're not working to mantain public order or going after criminals. Investigation work makes you a cop? Is Jessica Jones a cop?
    They're working for the Krakoan government. A high level agency dedicated to solving crimes, which includes catching criminals. Jessica Jones isn't working for a government agency, otherwise she would be a cop. The line is very thin between cops and private eyes. This isn't Madrox X-Factor, they're government sanctioned investigators. From how they're described they're closer to the X-factor run by Valerie Cooper than Madrox's.

    Is this an overcomplicated attempt to paint the X-men as hypocrites because they've worked with police forces before?
    I don't need Krakoa to do that. There's nothing complicated in acknowledging the X-men's past working as enforcers of the United States government. Just remembered in District X Bishop worked for the FBI to solve mutant related crimes.


  7. #112
    Astonishing Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Which is why it's important to establish your opinion with context. If I hadn't asked you wouldn't be telling us this .
    Not when the whole point is to let another person form an uninfluenced opinion. You could easily say that that a dozen or so cops pointing their guns at an unarmed black teenager is ridiculous overkill. And another example of the violence/danger armed officers can present to people of color.


    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    You seem reluctant to discuss it, period. It's strange why you want to ignore Lorna's past as a cop in X-Factor.
    Well it might be cause PAD's XFactor definitely never relied on the whole gov. sponsored mutant response team. It mostly focused on the characters, with some mutant sleuthing squeezed in small doses. Besides X-Tinction Agenda crossover, there weren't a lotta mutant cop story lines.
    Orrrrrrrr
    It could be Because Polaris as a cop has NOTHING to do with my post? I meaan we could discuss how you constantly ignore the genius of Sergio Mendes and Brasil '66 but I dont wanna derail the thread
    There was a whole book about Polaris....on X-Factor...not being a cop.
    GrindrStone(D)

  8. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroHomo View Post
    Not when the whole point is to let another person form an uninfluenced opinion. You could easily say that that a dozen or so cops pointing their guns at an unarmed black teenager is ridiculous overkill. And another example of the violence/danger armed officers can present to people of color.
    Which you could have said for extra context while being neutral.

    Well it might be cause PAD's XFactor definitely never relied on the whole gov. sponsored mutant response team. It mostly focused on the characters, with some mutant sleuthing squeezed in small doses. Besides X-Tinction Agenda crossover, there weren't a lotta mutant cop story lines.
    Orrrrrrrr
    This isn't about what genre X-Factor was in it's about the team being cops, which they were. The concept morphed into different variations, like the "Suicide Squad" inspired version with Mystique and Sabretooth and she was apart of that as a good cop. The government team in Vol.1, from 1991-1998, were a successor to Freedom Force. Which Lorna was involved in both teams. They were government agents hired to catch mutant criminals, they may have aesthetic trappings of a super-hero team but they were still cops.


    It could be Because Polaris as a cop has NOTHING to do with my post? I meaan we could discuss how you constantly ignore the genius of Sergio Mendes and Brasil '66 but I dont wanna derail the thread
    I bought that up since this thread is about good cops in X-men. Lorna's one of them.


    There was a whole book about Polaris....on X-Factor...not being a cop.
    And there are runs of comics where she is. She's a private investigator with that run, it was a continuation from the previous run when X-factor worked for the government as well as bringing back the original concept which was corporate sponsored mutant hunters.

    There was the short lived mini-series about a Mutant Civil Rights Task Force. I'll have to read that some day.


  9. #114
    Astonishing Member Veitha's Avatar
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    Working for the government is different than being a police officer. Are the Avengers cops?

  10. #115
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veitha View Post
    How is DoX X-Factor a police corp? They're acting on behalf of Krakoa to find out who's really dead so they can be put into the Resurrection pipeline. That's it. They're not working to mantain public order or going after criminals. Investigation work makes you a cop? Is Jessica Jones a cop?

    Is this an overcomplicated attempt to paint the X-men as hypocrites because they've worked with police forces before?
    They arent. If that were the case then all the X-men are cops too

  11. #116
    Adorable Carnivore PetPigeon's Avatar
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    I work for the government. AM I A COP?

  12. #117
    Astonishing Member Glio's Avatar
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    Krakoa has no police force that we know of, the X-Men have been deployed more as an army than as a police force.

    We do not know how crime is managed in Krakoa. I mean, we don't know who led the Hellions to see the Council.

  13. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroHomo View Post
    You decide...

    Looking at St Louis-since this is where Synch is from

    Demographics

    400,000

    43% White
    50% Black

    North St Louis has the large black population.

    10 Fortune 500 companies are in St Louis

    Synch's Dad is a Doctor. He probably works for BJC Healthcare.St Louis's top employer. Mom is also employed. According to Gen X #15 both successful in their chosen fields.

    We can assume Dr Thomas makes $131K or higher for being a doctor. 131k is the median.

    He also attends a Catholic school. A private school (while his does not exist in real life in St Louis, Dallas has one) costs from S4,500-5K.

    I suspect they live in Downtown St Louis and the school is somewhere there too.

    St Louis at the time of that issue-was number two in crime among cities in Missu and the highest at times in the USA.


    With all this said......

    Synch was not DRILLED with bullets because those cops knew who he was and his family.

    A private school kid with well off parents who adopted a blind Asian baby and seems to have a history of being foster parents to special needs children.

    That gets you attention in forms of media and the community.

    A city that-is tops in crime would have ZERO issue drilling a black male. Especially doing what Synch did.

    All that showed was cops showing restraint when they KNOW someone.

  14. #119
    Astonishing Member Veitha's Avatar
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    Kudos for the perfect analysis.

    I can't remember at the moment, did the Phalanx kill the cops after Banshee arrived and got Synch?

  15. #120
    Astonishing Member Veitha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    Krakoa has no police force that we know of, the X-Men have been deployed more as an army than as a police force.

    We do not know how crime is managed in Krakoa. I mean, we don't know who led the Hellions to see the Council.
    That would be interesting to see in a comic. I guess the New Mutants are in charge of The Sextant and probably got Hellion and brought him to The Council.

    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    They arent. If that were the case then all the X-men are cops too
    Yeah I don't see how they would be a police force when doing simple investigation work on a very specific issue.

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