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  1. #1
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    Default Phoenix - Origin

    So has the origin of the Phoenix ever been established?

    I donít remember reading where the Phoenix came from that was part of the Avengers B.C.. Is it possible that she was the Iron Fist that became the host of the Phoenix force in the New Avengers storyline during AvX? That could be an interesting twist.

    How awesome would it be if they revealed that she had a child with Odin? She could be an Asgardian, with the Phoenix Force, who possibly could attain the Iron Fist. That would be insane! Angela could even fit into being that character.

    I ultimately posted this here because the X-Men are the reason I even read comics.

  2. #2
    hate cant reach you here Harpsikord's Avatar
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    The Phoenix is a primal force of nature. There's no true reason why or how it exists - it just does. Without it, all life in the Marvel Universe probably wouldn't exist, or at least how it does now.

    The Phoenix in Avengers B.C. is not Fongji, it's the Phoenix Force itself possessing a cavewoman as a host.

    "I'll always love you, Jean Grey." "I'll always love you too, Scott Summers." - Scott Summers and Jean Grey

  3. #3
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    In the view of cc, the essence of phoenix force is power of creation, which is a collection of all living things or all creation. Both the name of the phoenix and the shape of the bird were given to it by Jean. Because of the existence of the phoenix, there is life in the universe, the universe itself can exist. The phoenix is the spark that once created the universe and the flame that will eventually destroy the universe and create a new one. The phoenix guarantees that the universe can always cycle between life, death and rebirth. As a phoenix, jean used to call herself alpha and omega.

  4. #4
    Deadly Bee Weapon coveredinbees's Avatar
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    Excalibur #52



    I just read it and it was helpful, but it did ignore Maddie who had a bit of the Phoenix.

  5. #5
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    Wasn't the Phoenix of the previous universe responsible for Galactus surviving into the current universe?

  6. #6
    Extraordinary Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PotniaTheron View Post
    In the view of cc, the essence of phoenix force is power of creation, which is a collection of all living things or all creation. Both the name of the phoenix and the shape of the bird were given to it by Jean. Because of the existence of the phoenix, there is life in the universe, the universe itself can exist. The phoenix is the spark that once created the universe and the flame that will eventually destroy the universe and create a new one. The phoenix guarantees that the universe can always cycle between life, death and rebirth. As a phoenix, jean used to call herself alpha and omega.
    I think it was Feron---an ancestor to the "current" Feron---who was supposedly the first humanoid who encountered the Phoenix Force long ago....He imagined the Force as a Huge Bird of Prey, the Phoenix, and after that time, the PF took on the Name and Imagery of the Phoenix we all know and love.

  7. #7
    Spectacular Member Micabe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harpsikord View Post
    The Phoenix is a primal force of nature. There's no true reason why or how it exists - it just does. Without it, all life in the Marvel Universe probably wouldn't exist, or at least how it does now.

    The Phoenix in Avengers B.C. is not Fongji, it's the Phoenix Force itself possessing a cavewoman as a host.
    A cavewoman that just happened to look exactly like Jean Grey of the 20th century.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixx9 View Post
    I think it was Feron---an ancestor to the "current" Feron---who was supposedly the first humanoid who encountered the Phoenix Force long ago....He imagined the Force as a Huge Bird of Prey, the Phoenix, and after that time, the PF took on the Name and Imagery of the Phoenix we all know and love.
    I'm sorry, my memory is wrong. The bird shape of Force was given by Feron, but the name phoenix should have been given by Jean. I remember in the story of Feron in Excalibur, it was mentioned that the Force was later called phoenix. And when Force first met Jean, it didn't say its name was phoenix, it said it was "creation".

    My understanding is that Feron gave Force a bird-like shape according to the legend of phoenix, while Jean named Force according to the shape of Force.

  9. #9
    Incredible Member franckd's Avatar
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    Complicated, convoluted, messy, retconed, are the Phoenix Force origins.

    I wish it had never existed, and that it was just Jean's powers (reaching her omega potential).

  10. #10
    Smart & Swift & Violent Kitty&Piotr<3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by franckd View Post
    Complicated, convoluted, messy, retconed, are the Phoenix Force origins.

    I wish it had never existed, and that it was just Jean's powers (reaching her omega potential).
    Someone will fix it back to this main central point one day. It won't be Hickman, but it'll get fixed somewhere in the next 30 years.
    "Cyclops loves wilted roses because they remind him of dead redheads."
    -Gail

  11. #11
    hate cant reach you here Harpsikord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitty&Piotr<3 View Post
    Someone will fix it back to this main central point one day. It won't be Hickman, but it'll get fixed somewhere in the next 30 years.
    Morrison already did fix it, even if he also added the "Phoenix Corps." Whenever it gets fixed again it'll still be reversed.

    "I'll always love you, Jean Grey." "I'll always love you too, Scott Summers." - Scott Summers and Jean Grey

  12. #12
    Extraordinary Member CRaymond's Avatar
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    It’s taking a new job, freelance, allergies, and fatigue to keep me from throwing my laptop open and TEDtalking Phoenix.

  13. #13
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    It is very convoluted and basically has become distasteful at least to me. Instead of just being a force (this aint Star Wars) that manifest as a chicken bird, I think I'd just make tye disembodied essence of an outcast celestial. Say said Celestial was responsible for the creation of life and emotions in the Marvel Universe but ran afoul of the other Celestials and was outcast sentenced to roam the universe as disembodied energy. Hell i dont know. I hate the damned Phoenix

  14. #14
    Astonishing Member Glio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitty&Piotr<3 View Post
    Someone will fix it back to this main central point one day. It won't be Hickman, but it'll get fixed somewhere in the next 30 years.
    The Phoenix has already been used by so many people who are not Jean who would not make sense. Phoenix is an established part of Marvel cosmology after decades.

  15. #15
    Astonishing Member Veitha's Avatar
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    I like her being the universal manifestation of Life. Her liking mutants should be connected to her liking evolution too (with the whole burn down what doesn't work thing) and it makes sense for her to be drawn to the more powerful ones such as Jean.



    It also makes sense that she'd get "drunk" on human emotions when possessing people, like in her first appearances. This is why I don't like the Aaron thing of her being with Odin or being humanized this much.

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