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  1. #16
    Mighty Member Hybrid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimz View Post
    Not into it. Feels like another nostalgia-heavy thing which is too overdone.

    Like there is no need for Captain Marvel to regress back to Ms Marvel. She is selling better than ever and had a billion dollar film. Why erase all that progress with the character for the sake of nostalgia?
    "Billion dollar film"

    I find it funny that's literally the only argument her apologists are capable of making. Newsflash: ANY MCU movie that was sandwiched after IW and released before Endgame, and hyped as "required reading" for the biggest blockbuster ever, would've made that much easily. No one likes Captain Marvel other than people who don't even read comics. Even then, that's limited to vocal people on... certain sites. No one even talks about the movie itself, the most I hear is about the cat scratching out Nick Fury's eye. It's funny how defenders will say they love Captain Marvel so much as this big accomplishment, but then never talk about the movie itself. I can have a long and good discussion on how The Dark Knight was a masterpiece, and I wouldn't even mention that it made a billion back in 2008 (when it was rare to get there -- TDK was the 4th to do it).

    As a character, she was far more well-liked as Ms. Marvel, and she was treated as a B-lister for her entire existence. Captain Carol is the definition of astroturfed popularity. And how is she "selling better than ever" when not factoring in the movie? I'm actually very interested in Captain Marvel 2. I'm going out on a guess here that CM2 won't make nearly as much as the first without being propped up by Endgame.

    Again, movies don't translate to comics success. If that were the case, Iron Man 2020 would've been a massive hit. It wasn't. It failed. When you're running a comic book business, you should be thinking of comic book fans first and foremost. It's business.
    Last edited by Hybrid; 05-31-2020 at 06:58 PM.

  2. #17
    Mighty Member Hybrid's Avatar
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    Look, you know what?

    Forget the reboot part.

    If we can work around this, say that we do, and we want Marvel Comics to recover after bad times, please discuss the rest of what I wrote without mentioning the reboot. For discussion, that's off the table. I want opinions besides that aspect.

    Again, I'm not political, not anti-diversity. I'm pro-good storytelling. I don't even want to think about politics when reading, and if politics come up, they better be well-made like the Claremont X-Men comics. I don't want to be spoonfed someone's view against today's world. Comics are escapism. Nobody wants characters like Safespace and Snowflake, and that's the point they reached. I just felt like it was one of no return, so I thought the mess needed cleaning, so I suggested a rewind.

    But let's not consider that, but consider everything else I detailed. What then?

  3. #18
    Incredible Member scourge's Avatar
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    Alright then. Everything else would be a massively terrible idea just to pander to an incredibly small minority of people and would overall harm comics more than help them.

    And by 'everything else' I mean your "Specific Changes" section.

  4. #19
    Mighty Member babyblob's Avatar
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    I like some of your changes but not all of them. I will explain

    Specific Changes
    Carol Danvers is now Ms. Marvel again with the iconic sexy look, with her genuinely flawed but much more likable personality.
    I liked her better as Ms Marvel so I am fine with this.


    Falcon never becomes Cap, X-23 doesn't become Wolverine, Amadeus Cho remains a brainy nerd but doesn't become Hulk. Their characters instead develop naturally.
    I liked Falcon as Captain America it gave some good story lines. X-23 I didnt read so I cant comment. I didnt really like Cho as the Hulk so not problem with this.

    Miles Morales exists but has an all new identity and is written more like ITSV and PS4
    I am fine with this. Too many Spidermen around any way.

    Same with Kamala Khan who is also given more depth as a character and less emphasis on her religion/race.
    Her Race and Religion are a big deal. You cant really but that kind of thing on a back burner. It means too much to too many people

    Wolverine is now an R-rated action hero as a comic book character, like he should be.
    Yes. He is the deadlist and he needs to be treated as such. Not be watered down.

    Spider-Man is portrayed like his better stories and not like in Dan Slott's run.
    I like Slotts run. Maybe a mixing of the two could work.

    Iceman is no longer forcibly made gay after decades of being straight.
    I never like Iceman being gay. And I say this as a gay man. There wasnt really much point to doing this with him after decades. it felt like a cheap gimmick. So I am fine with this.

    The Fantastic Four are the greatest team of the setting and treated as such.

    They were the first and they are the best. That needs to come back.

    Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch are now mutants and Magneto's children again.
    I loved them as Magento's kids and mutants. Bring this back.

    Jane Foster remains a civilian and never becomes Thor.
    'If she was never Thor she would never be Valkyrie and I love that book. So I am going to have to pass on this.

    X-Men are now back in Westchester.
    I grew up with then in the mansion with thre Danger Room. Bring that back.

    Other characters like Riri Williams, America Chavez, and a lot of the Champions are put on the backburner and HEAVILY reinvented if reintroduced. Characters like the New New Warriors and Children of the Atom no longer exist.
    I dont know who these people are so I cant comment.

    Those are my thoughts, Like I said some of your ideas I liked some I didnt. But Thats the great thing we dont have to agree on everything.
    Favorite teams. Alpha Flight, Avengers, Fantastic Four, West Coast Avengers, Justice Society of America, Legion of Superheroes.

  5. #20

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    I read less Marvel/DC these days so the new heroes of Wave 2 interest me the most.

    Giving Miles a new ID feels like a pipe dream but I've always liked the idea of him being a mutant with invisibility powers.

  6. #21
    Mighty Member Hybrid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scourge View Post
    Alright then. Everything else would be a massively terrible idea just to pander to an incredibly small minority of people and would overall harm comics more than help them.

    And by 'everything else' I mean your "Specific Changes" section.
    Oh, really? As opposed to already pandering to a different incredibly small minority of people that overall harmed comics more than helped them?

    I'm just making sure. Because what you described is exactly what Marvel has done since 2012. And the sales have nosedived, comic shops are out of business, the direct market collapsed in a situation that could've been handled otherwise, and Marvel is a total joke. I guess it's alright, so long as "the right type of people" like Marvel. Am I correct? Please tell me.

  7. #22
    Mighty Member Hybrid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    Same with Kamala Khan who is also given more depth as a character and less emphasis on her religion/race.
    Her Race and Religion are a big deal. You cant really but that kind of thing on a back burner. It means too much to too many people
    I didn't mean have it removed or anything, but well balanced by character traits, like Daredevil and Catholicism. He's defined as more than that, yet whenever Marvel talks about Kamala, they go "Muslim superhero" and reading her comics she feels more like a statement than a character. Thus, she can't actually grow or develop like a human being would, because that would mean things like struggling and making mistakes. Yeah, I'd never want to take away a character's religion, I just want more depth. Hope that explained it well enough.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    I'm personally not a fan of reboots.

    DC does them all the time, and it just makes continuity confusing. They layer reboots and retcons on top of reboots and retcons until the whole thing becomes one big mess.

    They can relaunch titles and try to return to whatever status quo they want but I don't think warping continuity is the way to do it. Just my opinon.
    This.

    DC (for the last 15 years anyway) have been too focused on retcons and reboots. You had Infinite Crisis, that was followed up be Final Crisis, Flashpoint/New52, Rebirth, Doomsday Clock, and they are building up to yet another one. They need to stop worrying about trying to fix their continuity and get on with telling stories that bring something new to the table instead of being written to alter past stuff.

    Marvel doesn't need to do a reboot. It wouldn't serve any purpose doing one now anyway.

  9. #24
    Mighty Member Hybrid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Somecrazyaussie View Post
    This.

    DC (for the last 15 years anyway) have been too focused on retcons and reboots. You had Infinite Crisis, that was followed up be Final Crisis, Flashpoint/New52, Rebirth, Doomsday Clock, and they are building up to yet another one. They need to stop worrying about trying to fix their continuity and get on with telling stories that bring something new to the table instead of being written to alter past stuff.

    Marvel doesn't need to do a reboot. It wouldn't serve any purpose doing one now anyway.
    I consider it a nuclear option, only used once and hopefully never again. I was just looking for an easy way to get Marvel Comics back on the right track after the years of plummeting sales, fan backlash, direct market collapse, and Snowflake and Safespace. But looking past that, I was more interested in discussing what I proposed in general. I regret saying reboot because that gets too much attention, to be honest.

  10. #25
    Incredible Member ARkadelphia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Somecrazyaussie View Post
    This.

    DC (for the last 15 years anyway) have been too focused on retcons and reboots. You had Infinite Crisis, that was followed up be Final Crisis, Flashpoint/New52, Rebirth, Doomsday Clock, and they are building up to yet another one. They need to stop worrying about trying to fix their continuity and get on with telling stories that bring something new to the table instead of being written to alter past stuff.

    Marvel doesn't need to do a reboot. It wouldn't serve any purpose doing one now anyway.

    I can support...

    Limiting number of events
    Some of your books that don’t exist now

    That’s about it.
    “The Scarlet Witch is the only thing that will scare them. It’s the only thing they’ll respect.” - Hope Summers, Avengers vs X-Men #7

  11. #26
    Mighty Member Hybrid's Avatar
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    God, I really regret saying reboot at all. I should've just said "Not a reboot, but bringing back all that you love" and kept it there. It's becoming a tumor that's taking too much attention away from all the legitimate ideas I had. The reboot wasn't even that serious as something I invested in, but a bouncing off point in a theoretical scenario.

    Can we PLEASE move past that already?

  12. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hybrid View Post
    God, I really regret saying reboot at all. I should've just said "Not a reboot, but bringing back all that you love" and kept it there. It's becoming a tumor that's taking too much attention away from all the legitimate ideas I had. The reboot wasn't even that serious as something I invested in, but a bouncing off point in a theoretical scenario.

    Can we PLEASE move past that already?
    "bringing back all that you love" is very subjective and it reads as "bringing back what I love"

    Nevertheless, I wouldn't want to remove the changes that Marvel went through. I like seeing character's and concepts changing and if the rubber band needs to snap back to the old status quo for a legitimate storytelling reason then sure, but to change it because you miss the old status quo is arbitrary.

    *also a lot of your changes remove nearly all POC and them being brought to the forefront; you may want to dwell on that*

  13. #28
    Benefactor / Malefactor H-E-D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hybrid View Post
    Experiment with new characters, and by that I mean actually new characters, the kind you would see Marvel experiment in the '80s at their creative height, NOT lazy token diversity swaps. I had ideas for characters before, which I will share below to show you later, proving that you can come up with cool new heroes if you put your mind to it. Not even that hard, I've spent 20 minutes thinking of the ones below, and will spend maybe an hour or two typing it. It may sound like me flexing creative muscles, but there's a reason for it: Marvel is known as the House of Ideas. They need to rebuild that house by coming up with cool new ideas. I'll demonstrate how that can be done.

    Specific Changes
    • Carol Danvers is now Ms. Marvel again with the iconic sexy look, with her genuinely flawed but much more likable personality.
    • Same with Spider-Woman, She-Hulk, Psylocke and so on.
    • Falcon never becomes Cap, X-23 doesn't become Wolverine, Amadeus Cho remains a brainy nerd but doesn't become Hulk. Their characters instead develop naturally.
    • Miles Morales exists but has an all new identity and is written more like ITSV and PS4
    • Same with Kamala Khan who is also given more depth as a character and less emphasis on her religion/race.
    • Wolverine is now an R-rated action hero as a comic book character, like he should be.
    • Spider-Man is portrayed like his better stories and not like in Dan Slott's run.
    • Iceman is no longer forcibly made gay after decades of being straight.
    • Jane Foster remains a civilian and never becomes Thor.
    • X-Men are now back in Westchester.
    • Other characters like Riri Williams, America Chavez, and a lot of the Champions are put on the backburner and HEAVILY reinvented if reintroduced. Characters like the New New Warriors and Children of the Atom no longer exist.
    lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Hybrid View Post
    I consider it a nuclear option, only used once and hopefully never again.
    It's a genie you can't put back in the bottle.

  14. #29
    Benefactor / Malefactor H-E-D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hybrid View Post
    Thanks man.

    I had a feeling I'd get backdraft from...certain people, but I'm NOT motivated by politics and social issues, I'm motivated to get good stories made again. I'm not political, I didn't even vote in 2016 because I didn't feel comfortable with either candidate. I'm just a guy who wants good stuff to read!
    Being "apolitical" is political.

  15. #30
    Extraordinary Member Crimz's Avatar
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    Only thing I like is the FF treated with more importance, but they don't need to be treated as above the others. Only as equally important as the Avengers and X-Men.
    Get the INVISIBLE WOMAN mini OUT NOW!


    Also check out : The Invisible Woman Appreciation thread!

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