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  1. #1
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    Default Why has DC turned Shazam into the world's mightiest wimp?

    Back in the day, Captain Marvel could go toe to toe with Superman. The only two heroes who had a chance of taking him on were Superman and maybe Wonder Woman. (Remember the War of the Gods?) Now, Geoff Johns and DC have turned him into a fourth-rate Superman! He used to able to crack a planet in two. He used to be able to survive underwater and in space! But, over the years, DC has turned the original Captain Marvel into somebody Robin could beat up! This has been bugging me for a loooooong time, but today's Shazam! was the final straw! The story itself is not a bad story, but it is built on what is from my perspective a faulty premise. Captain Marvel/Shazam ought to be above a villain like the Scarecrow - a guy without powers! How is it that the Scarecrow's fear-gas even effects Shazam? He's supposed to be invulnerable! Not only that, he has the courage of Achilles! That should count for something! It doesn't help that Billy acts like a tool most of the time. Yeah, he's a teenager, but he's not retarded! There are some things that DC and Geoff Johns have done with the character that I like, but the wimpification of the world's mightiest mortal is not one of them! When is the original Captain Marvel going to get some respect?
    Last edited by Marvelman; 06-02-2020 at 01:52 AM.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvelman View Post
    Back in the day, Captain Marvel could go toe to toe with Superman. The only two heroes who had a chance of taking him on were Superman and maybe Wonder Woman. (Remember the War of the Gods?) Now, Geoff Johns and DC have turned him into a fourth-rate Superman! He used to able to crack a planet in two. He used to be able to survive underwater and in space! But, over the years, DC has turned the original Captain Marvel into somebody Robin could beat up! This has been bugging me for a loooooong time, but today's Shazam! was the final straw! The story itself is not a bad story, but it is built on what is from my perspective a faulty premise. Captain Marvel/Shazam ought to be above a villain like the Scarecrow - a guy without powers! How is it that the Scarecrow's fear-gas even effects Shazam? He's supposed to be invulnerable! Not only that, he has the courage of Achilles! That should count for something! It doesn't help that Billy acts like a tool most of the time. Yeah, he's a teenager, but he's not retarded! There are some things that DC and Geoff Johns have done with the character that I like, but the wimpification of the world's mightiest mortal is not one of them! When is the original Captain Marvel going to get some respect?
    1. Fear Toxin etc. also affects Superman..
    Look at Injustice, it affected Zod and Superman..
    He was also under control of POISON IVY

    2. I think its not consistent, but even Superman needs air to live..

    So all that what you said also count for Superman!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masterff View Post
    1. Fear Toxin etc. also affects Superman..
    Look at Injustice, it affected Zod and Superman..
    He was also under control of POISON IVY

    2. I think its not consistent, but even Superman needs air to live..

    So all that what you said also count for Superman!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    1. I'm pretty sure those instances involved Kryptonite.

    2. No, Superman can survive in Space - at least in the comics. In recent issues, Superman has be flying around in space without air. In the cartoons, in JLU, and Young Justice, Superman does indeed need a supply of oxygen to survive in space.

  4. #4
    Mighty Member jb681131's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvelman View Post
    1. I'm pretty sure those instances involved Kryptonite.

    2. No, Superman can survive in Space - at least in the comics. In recent issues, Superman has be flying around in space without air. In the cartoons, in JLU, and Young Justice, Superman does indeed need a supply of oxygen to survive in space.
    2. No, he can't survive in space. You said it youself, "he needs a supply of oxygen" ! Any being can survive in space with oxygen ! It's not specific to superman.

  5. #5
    Astonishing Member Gaastra's Avatar
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    Don't know about post new 52 but pre new 52 superman could breath in space and water just fine. He would even head to space for fun. Death battles superman vs goku 2 even showed a full scene in the comics where superman is in space with no space suit and makes a point that superman can breath in space.

  6. #6
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    The original Captain Marvel was a children's character, so if youd like to see more All Ages Shazam- I'm with you there.

    Johns' book has been a solid mix of an all ages book along with the kind of usual fare superhero readers like- but I'd love to see it go harder on the wit 'n whimsy. Be weirder and more obtuse.
    Last edited by Flash Gordon; 06-02-2020 at 05:53 AM.

  7. #7
    Boisterously Confused
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    (The Real) Captain Marvel has been neutered since CoIE. Of course, DC seems to have its hands full keeping Superman meaningful these days, I doubt they have capacity to do justice to two characters of such stature.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by jb681131 View Post
    2. No, he can't survive in space. You said it youself, "he needs a supply of oxygen" ! Any being can survive in space with oxygen ! It's not specific to superman.
    If you had paid attention Marvelman clearly stated that the "he needs a supply of oxygen" bit only applies to the cartoon series. Specifically JLU and Young Justice.

    In the comics Superman does not require an atmosphere and can indeed survive in outer space. This is because Mongul Jr. helped him overcome the psychological barriers that convinced him he needed food and oxygen. Now that he has overcome them he needs only sunlight to survive.


    Quote Originally Posted by Marvelman
    The story itself is not a bad story, but it is built on what is from my perspective a faulty premise. Captain Marvel/Shazam ought to be above a villain like the Scarecrow - a guy without powers! How is it that the Scarecrow's fear-gas even effects Shazam? He's supposed to be invulnerable! Not only that, he has the courage of Achilles! That should count for something!
    Sadly this is yet another example of DC rubbishing other characters to hype up "Bat-God," this time indirectly by hyping up his villains.
    Last edited by hareluyafan1; 06-02-2020 at 08:30 AM.

  9. #9
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Shazam will never be really shown to his full potential in a world he exists in with Superman, because Superman will always be better than him.. They'll always favor the homegrown character over the analogue they bought from another publisher. The solution is that Superman and Shazam should not be on the same world. But good luck getting DC to stop favoring ClutterEarth set ups.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

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  10. #10
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    Editorial wants to make sure that Batman can take him out.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by hareluyafan1 View Post
    If you had paid attention Marvelman clearly stated that the "he needs a supply of oxygen" bit only applies to the cartoon series. Specifically JLU and Young Justice.

    In the comics Superman does not require an atmosphere and can indeed survive in outer space. This is because Mongul Jr. helped him overcome the psychological barriers that convinced him he needed food and oxygen. Now that he has overcome them he needs only sunlight to survive.

    Sadly this is yet another example of DC rubbishing other characters to hype up "Bat-God," this time indirectly by hyping up his villains.
    As far as I know there ARE Superman Versions also in Comics who needed air.

    Superman had 2 times problem with Fear Toxin:
    -Injustice
    -Superman/Batman TORMENT 37-42

    I dont know what happened in Superman/Batman, Injustice included Kryptonite.

    Superman and Supergirl had also problems with the BLACK MERCY...

  12. #12
    Mighty Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    I thought it prompted a really great conversation between Batman and Billy so however they got there was worth it.

  13. #13
    Astonishing Member phantom1592's Avatar
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    I believe he's been wimped down to justify needing a giant sized family. It was bad enough when they lowered his power while sharing it with freddy and Mary... but now the team has added 3-4 more Shazams?!? What possible threat would outside the Anti-monitor would ever need SIX Captain Marvels if they were all 'World's mightiest mortals'....

  14. #14
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    Maybe they’re treating him like a shonen hero since he’s only 12.

    Starts off at a base strength, but as he gets older (Billy) and goes on more adventures, he’ll keep getting stronger and stronger with age.(as get Billy persona matures).

  15. #15
    Fantastic Member The no face guy's Avatar
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    In fairness he did recently get his own movie, and Geoff Johns is a premier writer....so I assume he is in good hands?

    I do feel that he will always be second tier to Superman, and I have felt over the years (particularly with the Charlton heroes) that DC doesn't seem to treat heroes as well, who were created by another company that they bought the rights to, but that is just my perception.

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