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Thread: Kindred?

  1. #16
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC_Yankee View Post
    I certainly would like Leeds as Kindred, and then put a stake through the heart of OMD for good.
    I doubt the latter will ever happen but the former could.

    I too think Ned would be a great option for Kindred's civilian identity.
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  2. #17
    Spectacular Member LASERlips's Avatar
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    kin∑dred
    /ˈkindrəd/
    noun: kindred

    one's family and relations.


    I've been away for a long while so forgive me if my guess is redundant and this ground has been covered. I dropped off ASM shortly after Peter's return from Superior, when he was an Iron Man knockoff. I've read most of Spencer's run (Marvel Unlimited).

    I thought the manner of Peter Parker's return to control of his own body in Superior Spider-Man was incredibly sloppy. Slott did not seem overly concerned with the mind-swap mechanics making any sort of sense. As I recall, immediately after gifting all his good and responsible feelings to Ock to ensure that he is a good Spider-Man, Peter Parker died trapped in Ock's body. The ghostly Peter that remains in SpOck's head is just a fragment built of memory, the consequence of all the good and responsible feelings, since Peter actually died trapped in Ock's body. Then that ghostly fragment Peter was deleted, then sort of rebuilt itself as a copy of a copy of memories and feelings or something, and when it took over it's suddenly the real Peter.

    But the real Peter died trapped in Ock's body.
    Slott handwaved this, saying the returned Peter is the real deal. But Slott would not acknowledge his own slop as such, would he? He wanted to have it both ways. The tragedy of Peter Parker dying, trapped in Ock's body. The drama of Peter Parker in SpOck's head, whispering.

    So the Peter in SpOck's head wasn't the original Peter. He died, trapped in Ock's body.


    See where this is going?



    My insane guess is that Kindred is the original Peter Parker that died, trapped in Ock's body.

    -He would know himself intimately.
    -He would resent his other self for living the life that should be his.
    -He would have feared Norman Osborn.
    -Norman would acknowledge him as a true heir and be proud of him as Kindred, since Norman once kidnapped and brainwashed Peter Parker into being just that, his true and worthy heir to the Goblin/Osborn legacy. (Norman always considered Hobgoblins as offshoot trash, but again, he considered Peter as worthy of being his true successor).
    -He went to Hell because OMD.
    -He's a villain and kills people because he gave all his good feelings and responsibility to SpOck with his dying breath.


    Where would such a revelation lead? I don't know, probably ultimately some sort of Superman-Red/Blue-style reunification, and Peter will experience some crazy feelings and guilt afterwards because of what his Kindred-self did.

    But I hope I'm right. Not just because I'd be right, but because I like the idea that the next writer would come in and attempt to clean up this particular Slott mess, since Slott gave no indication of ever doing so.


    Plus, it'd really spice up Spencer's run, wouldn't it?
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  3. #18

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    My guesses:

    The original Gwen Stacy, Pre OMD Peter Parker, Pre OMD Harry Osborn, Peter who died in SpOck's body and Ezekiel Sims.

    If I had to pick one, I'm going for the original Gwen Stacy. The mystery behind Kindred is well built up, I just hope that Spencer nails the post outing of Kindred. It will determine quite the chunk of Nick Spencer's Amazing Spider-Man tenure for good or bad.

  4. #19
    Fantastic Member tv horror's Avatar
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    I'm sticking with my original theory that it is Gabriel Stacy the Gray Goblin, he fears Norman hates Peter and has died also I don't think it was ever explained who the Stacy was who was in that experimental tube years ago. It would also please Norman that his "son" would carry on his legacy.
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  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Batman Begins 2005 View Post
    My guesses:

    The original Gwen Stacy, Pre OMD Peter Parker, Pre OMD Harry Osborn, Peter who died in SpOck's body and Ezekiel Sims.

    If I had to pick one, I'm going for the original Gwen Stacy. The mystery behind Kindred is well built up, I just hope that Spencer nails the post outing of Kindred. It will determine quite the chunk of Nick Spencer's Amazing Spider-Man tenure for good or bad.
    There are two things about Spencerís run that most of us can agree on. 1: He has been cleaning up messes from Slott. 2: He likes obscure characters and finds a use for them ( Gibbon for example). If Gwen would be Kindred, that would violate the obscure character part of his run ( when Crime Master, Ezekiel and my choice of Ned are options). I would actually like Gwen as Kindred, but the two problems are. 1: What did she do to deserve Hell? 2: It would create a controversy like OMD, Sins Past and Clone Saga which is against Spencerís style.

  6. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by NC_Yankee View Post
    There are two things about Spencer’s run that most of us can agree on. 1: He has been cleaning up messes from Slott. 2: He likes obscure characters and finds a use for them ( Gibbon for example). If Gwen would be Kindred, that would violate the obscure character part of his run ( when Crime Master, Ezekiel and my choice of Ned are options). I would actually like Gwen as Kindred, but the two problems are. 1: What did she do to deserve Hell? 2: It would create a controversy like OMD, Sins Past and Clone Saga which is against Spencer’s style.
    I agree with you that Spencer has course corrected Slott's messes and callbacks to different Spider-Man lore. If Gwen is Kindred, you're right that 1 and 2 would cause controversy taking a character like Gwen and reinventing her so differently but if anyone could do that, I have faith that Spencer is able to. I'll see if that faith is misplaced but so far, I'm liking nearly all of what Spencer ASM run has brought.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Batman Begins 2005 View Post
    I agree with you that Spencer has course corrected Slott's messes and callbacks to different Spider-Man lore. If Gwen is Kindred, you're right that 1 and 2 would cause controversy taking a character like Gwen and reinventing her so differently but if anyone could do that, I have faith that Spencer is able to. I'll see if that faith is misplaced but so far, I'm liking nearly all of what Spencer ASM run has brought.
    Here is something to keep in mind. JMS had a good run on Spider-Man, but what is he remembered for? OMD and Sins Past. Speaking of Sins Past, if people are agitated about Gwen sleeping with Osborn can you imagine the reaction to her as a killer? I really think that would ruin would ruin Spencer’s legacy, and he knows this. One more point on Sins Past. One person who has escaped criticism has been Norman Osborn. Sleeping with the teenaged Gwen makes him far worse then Gwen, but no one critiques him. Why? Everyone knows anything about Spider-Man knows he is a douche. Better to take a known douche like Ned Leeds, then make Gwen look worse then even Osborn ( this from a hard core MJ supporter).

  8. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by NC_Yankee View Post
    Here is something to keep in mind. JMS had a good run on Spider-Man, but what is he remembered for? OMD and Sins Past. Speaking of Sins Past, if people are agitated about Gwen sleeping with Osborn can you imagine the reaction to her as a killer? I really think that would ruin would ruin Spencer’s legacy, and he knows this. One more point on Sins Past. One person who has escaped criticism has been Norman Osborn. Sleeping with the teenaged Gwen makes him far worse then Gwen, but no one critiques him. Why? Everyone knows anything about Spider-Man knows he is a douche. Better to take a known douche like Ned Leeds, then make Gwen look worse then even Osborn ( this from a hard core MJ supporter).
    Those are the two worst Spider-Man stories that totally taints JMS' time on the book. Sad that as it had things going for it specifically JMS' writing of a mature Peter, Mary Jane and Aunt May.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Batman Begins 2005 View Post
    Those are the two worst Spider-Man stories that totally taints JMS' time on the book. Sad that as it had things going for it specifically JMS' writing of a mature Peter, Mary Jane and Aunt May.
    I would add Clone Saga to that list of universally despised stories. BND ( I usually put them together but I am separating them because they were different writers), Silk and Year One are also pretty disliked as well. The reason with those two was messing with Amazing Fantasy 15 and not in a good way. But going back to Gwen, I was one of those who was all for her being Kindred, but when I think about it, the idea of her worse then Osborn is something that should not happen, and I do not think it will.

  10. #25
    Fantastic Member Grapeweasel's Avatar
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    Marvel seems to have a good thing going with Spider-Gwen/Ghost Spider. I don't think they'd let Spencer Nazi Cap her.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeweasel View Post
    Marvel seems to have a good thing goin with Spider-Gwen/Ghost Spider. I don't think they'd let Spencer Nazi Cap her.
    I happen to agree with you, but she still has to be considered a suspect

  12. #27
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeweasel View Post
    Marvel seems to have a good thing going with Spider-Gwen/Ghost Spider. I don't think they'd let Spencer Nazi Cap her.
    True, making OG Gwen a villain could jeopardize their latest cash cow, Ghost Spider, with causal fans (who might not be able to differentiate between the two characters) by sowing confusion. I highly doubt Papa Disney would let Marvel take the risk, but I could be wrong as stranger things have happened.
    Last edited by Celgress; 06-04-2020 at 03:07 PM.
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  13. #28
    Incredible Member xpyred's Avatar
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    Does Jean Dewolff have any history with Norman Osborn? I know she debuted in 1976 well after Norman was thought to be dead. Could it be possible that Kindred is Jean Dwolff? This could be why Kindred brought the Sin-Eater is back as well. We do know that Jean had some feelings for Spider-Man that she never shared. Is it possible that Stan Carter found out and out of Jealousy he killed Jean? If Kindred is Jean, it explains why she's upset about all the women Peter has around him as well.

  14. #29

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    the possibility of Ned being Kindred made me think of Remender's run as Flash Thompson as Venom.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Batman Begins 2005 View Post
    My guesses:

    The original Gwen Stacy, Pre OMD Peter Parker, Pre OMD Harry Osborn, Peter who died in SpOck's body and Ezekiel Sims.

    If I had to pick one, I'm going for the original Gwen Stacy. The mystery behind Kindred is well built up, I just hope that Spencer nails the post outing of Kindred. It will determine quite the chunk of Nick Spencer's Amazing Spider-Man tenure for good or bad.
    I say original Gwen too.

    They already have Spider-Gwen out there. And her popularity and adaptations have over taken original Gwen. To talk with Norman, sealed it for me.

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