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  1. #1
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Default If 5G ain't happening what is gonna happen to jon?

    I don't particularly think the direction has been great for the character, that's just me. If there is no end game, wouldn't the age up and legion thing be wasted? I don't think jon with legion is sustainable at all. There is a limit to what the character scope will be, compared to the potential.This is also important since bendis says he had stayed longer than he planned. Didio who seems to have been rumoured to be the brains of the operation is also gone.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 06-02-2020 at 09:24 PM.

  2. #2
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    I don't particularly think the direction has been great for the character, that's just me. If there is no end game, wouldn't the age up and legion thing be wasted? I don't think jon with legion is sustainable at all. There is a limit to what the character scope will be, compared to the potential.This is also important since bendis says he had stayed longer than he planned. Didio who seems to have been rumoured to be the brains of the operation is also gone.
    I think it's still happening, but in a far more measured way than Didio had originally planned. Rather than replacing all of DC's top heroes, it'll likely just be Jon taking over as Superman for a time and a handful of other characters. It looks very unlikely that Batman is going to be Luke Fox anytime soon, nor will Wonder Woman be Nubia (or whomever it was supposed to be).

    Things are still in flux at the moment. We have no idea what the plan is for Flash post-Williamson, GL post-Morrison, or if Manapul's Aquaman will happen or not. Reportedly, it was originally an Earth One GN, then it was changed to 5G, so it could be switched back again.

  3. #3
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    While the linewide 5G replacement is most likely no longer happening, that doesn’t mean Bendis couldn’t still replace Clark with Jon as Superman for a bit. It’s would probably be marketed as a temporary change from the start. As for the long term? I suspect like Clark’s secret identity, Jon will inevitably go back to being a kid again. His age up has not been widely loved and I doubt that with Didio gone there will still be a demand for an aged up Jon.

  4. #4
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    While the linewide 5G replacement is most likely no longer happening, that doesn’t mean Bendis couldn’t still replace Clark with Jon as Superman for a bit. It’s would probably be marketed as a temporary change from the start. As for the long term? I suspect like Clark’s secret identity, Jon will inevitably go back to being a kid again. His age up has not been widely loved and I doubt that with Didio gone there will still be a demand for an aged up Jon.
    The sneaky part about how Bendis aged Jon up is that anyone could easily bring back 12 year old Jon by plucking him out of his deliberately vague Lost Years between his disappearance and reappearance as a teenager. There's no way he spent 5 years being tortured on Earth-3 and came out that well adjusted.

  5. #5
    Astonishing Member Yoda's Avatar
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    Given the utter contempt and inability most comic writers have writing young kids, I wouldn’t be shocked if they just play off the whole thing and leave him with the Legion. Bendis isn’t going anywhere and he’s already adjusting his plans with Checkmate. And there’s nothing that’s been set up that requires 5G yet. I think the same way with Batman they’ll play it off and just keep going.

    There might be more Super Sons books with kid Jon, but I don’t expect them to bring him back in the main books. He’ll be with the Legion for as long as that book goes.

  6. #6
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    Good!! I'll be glad if 5G doesn't happen!! I thought Dc would be making a big mistake anyway!! Why is dc Comics copying Marvel comics anyway?? Jon can go back to being a kid, Clark, Lois and Jon can go back to living together like a family again!! There's only one superman!! Clark Kent!!
    Last edited by lotchj; 06-03-2020 at 06:20 AM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    Given the utter contempt and inability most comic writers have writing young kids, I wouldn’t be shocked if they just play off the whole thing and leave him with the Legion. Bendis isn’t going anywhere and he’s already adjusting his plans with Checkmate. And there’s nothing that’s been set up that requires 5G yet. I think the same way with Batman they’ll play it off and just keep going.

    There might be more Super Sons books with kid Jon, but I don’t expect them to bring him back in the main books. He’ll be with the Legion for as long as that book goes.
    While young Jon is beloved by most fans, I have never felt that equated to DC/most writers wanting to writing him or more specifically, writing someone at his tender age of ten for an indeterminate and long period who would forever need adult supervision even if we never saw it on panel. I think what made the Super Sons book work was the idea that at the end of the book Jon went home and slept in his bed with his parents a door away. This book could have gone on forever and that would have been fine but there's a limit for some to what a 10 year old should be allowed to do, I think it was essentially written in when he was rejected from joining the TT. Could he be used in the greater DCU with similar effect as in SS or Tomasi's Superman? Not as a 10 year old he couldn't. And that also reflected on his parents, particularly Lois. Clark could go gallivanting across the universe for issue after issue across several books without setting foot on earth but I couldn't imagine Lois carving up for herself half of that panel space without the possibility of some readers wondering when is she going home to her son.

    As much as it sucks, but for practical storytelling reasons, deep down I feel 10 year-old Jon was always on a short-leash and DC would pull his plug sooner or later. They just did it sooner that most would have liked and did it before we could fully appreciate his presence with the whole of the Super family cast like Kara and especially Conner. How they did will forever grate people and knowing that they always intended to age him for 5G hasn't helped much either. Could they bring young Jon back after Bendis leaves, after we've had a go with Jon Superman? most likely but I suspect DC will settle with old Jon because he's easier to use long term.

  8. #8
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpmaluki View Post
    While young Jon is beloved by most fans, I have never felt that equated to DC/most writers wanting to writing him or more specifically, writing someone at his tender age of ten for an indeterminate and long period who would forever need adult supervision even if we never saw it on panel. I think what made the Super Sons book work was the idea that at the end of the book Jon went home and slept in his bed with his parents a door away. This book could have gone on forever and that would have been fine but there's a limit for some to what a 10 year old should be allowed to do, I think it was essentially written in when he was rejected from joining the TT. Could he be used in the greater DCU with similar effect as in SS or Tomasi's Superman? Not as a 10 year old he couldn't. And that also reflected on his parents, particularly Lois. Clark could go gallivanting across the universe for issue after issue across several books without setting foot on earth but I couldn't imagine Lois carving up for herself half of that panel space without the possibility of some readers wondering when is she going home to her son.

    As much as it sucks, but for practical storytelling reasons, deep down I feel 10 year-old Jon was always on a short-leash and DC would pull his plug sooner or later. They just did it sooner that most would have liked and did it before we could fully appreciate his presence with the whole of the Super family cast like Kara and especially Conner. How they did will forever grate people and knowing that they always intended to age him for 5G hasn't helped much either. Could they bring young Jon back after Bendis leaves, after we've had a go with Jon Superman? most likely but I suspect DC will settle with old Jon because he's easier to use long term.
    Damian is 13, a measly 3 years older kid.The entire titans is built of child soldiers. Jimmy and dick were pretty much 10 or 8 when they started. Clark can't keep jon safe without him getting trained. The books was about a kid being stuck in this world copung with it, learning to defend himself and have fun adventure. Nothing says a book like that can't exist. Jon basically saw aftermath of a masscre in his first adventure. He saw his entire family become doomsdays, while he had to hide inside a fortress aways from his mother who became a monster. He saw his mom legs get decapitated. He went to apocalypse and tamed hell hounds. The intrigue was always the kid coping with all this and still trying to be normal. Teen titans rejected him because a) his powers were unstable b) the team itself was in shambles.Not because of his age. Clark himself was young boy with legion.Regardless, jon bendis doesn't get jon's voice right whether he 10 or 17.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 06-03-2020 at 07:35 AM.

  9. #9
    Astonishing Member superduperman's Avatar
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    Without knowing exactly what was Didio's idea and what wasn't, we have no way of knowing what the plans are or where they are going now. We know 5G was his idea. We also know that immediately after he left artists were told to stop working on certain projects. We also know that this Generations thing isn't in any solicitations. Which suggests it's dead and they are going in a different direction. I have no idea what Didio's opinion of Jon was. What we do know is he hated "legacy" characters, of which Jon very much was. So whether or not aging up Jon and sending him into the future was Didio's idea we don't know but it definitely sounds like something he would do. And Bendis saying he wants to work with him may just mean that. Didio was a divisive figure and a lot of his ideas were unpopular to say the least. DC may not have sorted out everything they want to do yet. It sounds like this Metal thing may end up replacing whatever it was 5G was supposed to be as this year's big event. And it doesn't sound anything at all like what 5G was.
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  10. #10
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    At this point? Who the hell knows?

    I think there's a solid argument for leaving Jon a teenager. It frees Clark and Lois up to both have a kid and for that kid to be independent enough to not get in the way of Superman stories. Typical DC; trying to have it both ways. Jon's fanbase doesn't appear to be large enough to warrant much effort on DC's part to placate them, and they've dropped a couple YA OGN's with a younger Jon which DC likely thinks is good enough.

    But, while I don't think Jon is enough of a factor to really impact many decisions regarding Clark and the Super books, Jon being aged up doesn't seem to have gone over well and the Legion title isn't likely to last too long (the Legion never does anymore). So if the Legion is a non-issue and Jon's tenure as Superman is short lived or never happens at all there's not really much stopping DC from making him ten again either.

    I suspect that it might just boil down to what the creator/s want to do once Bendis leaves and the Legion book runs its course. DC might not give a damn either way, as far as editorial and management are concerned. The Superman books are about Superman, not his kid, and Super Sons sold well but not well enough to really be a major factor, and the Legion isn't selling great either, so.....DC might not give a damn and will leave it to the whims of whoever takes over after Bendis.

    Or who the hell knows?
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Damian is 13, a measly 3 years older kid.The entire titans is built of child soldiers. Jimmy and dick were pretty much 10 or 8 when they started. Clark can't keep jon safe without him getting trained. The books was about a kid being stuck in this world copung with it, learning to defend himself and have fun adventure. Nothing says a book like that can't exist. Jon basically saw aftermath of a masscre in his first adventure. He saw his entire family become doomsdays, while he had to hide inside a fortress aways from his mother who became a monster. He saw his mom legs get decapitated. He went to apocalypse and tamed hell hounds. The intrigue was always the kid coping with all this and still trying to be normal. Teen titans rejected him because a) his powers were unstable b) the team itself was in shambles.Not because of his age. Clark himself was young boy with legion.Regardless, jon bendis doesn't get jon's voice right whether he 10 or 17.
    Damian is practically an adult in a child's body and most writers treat him as such and therefore there's no limit to what messed up things they can make him do or get him into. Jon was a sheltered rambunctious boy, who acted his age but with the strength of his father, depending on the day, so the boys are literally night and day, excuse my pun.

    The Jimmy and Dick were from a different era, whose books were a different tone to that of today. They got away with plenty for their period that won't fly with some today.

    The point I was trying to make was the likelihood of the bts requirements overriding the longevity of young Jon (beyond SS and Tomasi's Superman). Snyder has used him but not to drive the story like Tomasi did. And regarding the TT, with them "broken", how would Jon truly fit in that set up without ageing him a bit. I feel that for other writers to use him regularly, he had to be aged up but they did it too quickly and too soon and did it in the most terrible way imaginable. Young Jon is infinitely better than what we have but stunting him at 10 years also meant stunting Lois' stories and as much as I love reading about Superman and Superboy, i also wanted to read about Lois and DC wasn't giving me that with young Jon. They could have, they should have but they didn't.

    What we have now isn't perfect. I agree about Bendis' voice for Jon. It's somewhat bland but my point about DC eventually moving away from young Jon, if only they were patient and given the task to someone who knew Jon's character before handing him over to Bendis.
    Last edited by rpmaluki; 06-03-2020 at 09:31 AM.

  12. #12
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpmaluki View Post
    Damian is practically an adult in a child's body and most writers treat him as such and therefore there's no limit to what messed up things they can make him do or get him into. Jon was a sheltered rambunctious boy, who acted his age but with the strength of his father, depending on the day, so the boys are literally night and day, excuse my pun.

    The Jimmy and Dick were from a different era, whose books were a different tone to that of today. They got away with plenty for their period that won't fly with some today.

    The point I was trying to make was the likelihood of the bts requirements overriding the longevity of young Jon (beyond SS and Tomasi's Superman). Snyder has used him but not to drive the story like Tomasi did. And regarding the TT, with them "broken", how would Jon truly fit in that set up without ageing him a bit. I feel that for other writers to use him regularly, he had to be aged up but they did it too quickly and too soon and did it in the most terrible way imaginable. Young Jon is infinitely better than what we have but stunting him at 10 years also meant stunting Lois' stories and as much as I love reading about Superman and Superboy, i also wanted to read about Lois and DC wasn't giving me that with young Jon. They could have, they should have but they didn't.

    What we have now isn't perfect. I agree about Bendis' voice for Jon. It's somewhat bland but my point about DC eventually moving away from young Jon, if only they were patient and given the task to someone who knew Jon's character before handing him over to Bendis.
    That doesn't matter if the moral implications of a kid in this world was your argument. There are several kids in the universe. Therefore, it's too late for that kind of thinking. I don't think dc really sees any of that either.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    The Superman books are about Superman, not his kid
    Yeah! The current superman is bland and boring for me. If i am gonna have superdad, i want a kid in toe whether it's jimmy, billy or jon. It doesn't matter. Even keeping that aside. Superman needs a good cast. His cast, his world, how his power is presented and he himself without getting a massive retooling, I don't see this guy appealing to people.But,that just me taking into accout superman detractors.Also, superman books aren't about Superman identity, in my opinion. It's about kal el and clark kent. I know i have beaten this drum before but i genuinely don't find superman as interesting.There is plenty of things to be explored about just that identity. But, alas there hasn't been superman centered book in eons.i don't think it will ever happen.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 06-03-2020 at 10:04 AM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    That doesn't matter the moral implications of a kid in this world was your argument. There are several kids in the universe. Therefore, it's too late for that kind of thinking. I don't think dc really sees any of that either.

    I'm not talking about morals, I'm talking about the usability of the character for stories beyond the small pond that was SS and Tomasi's Superman. While explicit stories can be written about superhero children, and in 10yr old Jon's case they were, are all writers comfortable doing so? Taylor has used Jon to drive his DCeased books but even that Jon looked older than Tomasi's Jon (maybe he was the same age, i don't know, I haven't read the books). I'm not saying they couldn't keep using young Jon, just that at some stage, they would have aged him up as they have Dick and Jason and plenty others because there's simply a wider range of stories to tell not only for Jon but his parents as well as.

  14. #14
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpmaluki View Post
    I'm not talking about morals, I'm talking about the usability of the character for stories beyond the small pond that was SS and Tomasi's Superman. While explicit stories can be written about superhero children, and in 10yr old Jon's case they were, are all writers comfortable doing so? Taylor has used Jon to drive his DCeased books but even that Jon looked older than Tomasi's Jon (maybe he was the same age, i don't know, I haven't read the books). I'm not saying they couldn't keep using young Jon, just that at some stage, they would have aged him up as they have Dick and Jason and plenty others because there's simply a wider range of stories to tell not only for Jon but his parents as well as.
    There are lots of stories that can be done. A semi normal kid fending for himself is ripe full of potential. Him getting stronger in a world where he himself doesn't know he is in over his head, Yeah that's intriguing .i can understand some writers feeling not good. But, not all. otherwise, the titans wouldn't exist. You also seem to think lois and superman would be tied down by. Lois and clark has both left the kid for their duties many a times,Without have to be made into assholes.The kid just needs to be left alone to continue his own journey in titans or forming a new team book or supersons. Clark and lois just needs to visit that's it, without nonsensical mandates. They can have their father-son superman punches or lois wearing hellbat gloves moments or plain jon getting into trouble. I appreciated the silverage and goldenage adventures flavours of supersons. I am sure there are tons of people who want to read comics without the soapopera drama. The reason i come to emphatically believe mangas> comics. I am just bored with the same old dogmas that comics industry regurgitates with their skewed view of good and evil.

    Jon with his standard shonen aesthetic and more story beats added in, can diverge from that. You want a superboy who punches a corrupt official. Jon is there. You want a guy who takes super"heroes" and their "dogmas" apart. You want a superboy or man who actually believes in working to get stronger. The kid can do it.You want a kid to be a superdick. Hell yeah! He does it.You want a superman who is more ambitious and likes to set goal to achieve. The kid can emphatically try to reach lofty goals.Heck!if i wrote the current older jon. He would be beating up dictators and giving people his flag as a symbol to protect them. I wouldn't resort to stupid slippery slope arguments or other things. The kid could break the norms and be something the comics industry hate. A status quo breaker. I mean, the kid literally altered reality to exist.?
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 06-03-2020 at 10:34 AM.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    There are lots of stories that can be done. A semi normal kid fending for himself is ripe full of potential. Him getting stronger in a world where he himself doesn't know he is in over his head, Yeah that's intriguing .i can understand some writers feeling not good. But, not all. otherwise, the titans wouldn't exist. You also seem to think lois and superman would be tied down by. Lois and clark has both left the kid for their duties many a times,Without have to be made into assholes.The kid just needs to be left alone to continue his own journey in titans or forming a new team book or supersons. Clark and lois just needs to visit that's it, without nonsensical mandates. They can have their father-son superman punches or lois wearing hellbat gloves moments or plain jon getting into trouble. I appreciated the silverage and goldenage adventures flavours of supersons. I am sure there are tons of people who want to read comics without the soapopera drama. The reason i come to emphatically believe mangas> comics. I am just bored with the same old dogmas that comics industry regurgitates with their skewed view of good and evil.

    Jon with his standard shonen aesthetic and more story beats added in, can diverge from that. You want a superboy who punches a corrupt official. Jon is there. You want a guy who takes super"heroes" and their "dogmas" apart. You want a superboy or man who actually believes in working to get stronger. The kid can do it.You want a kid to be a superdick. Hell yeah! He does it.You want a superman who is more ambitious and likes to set goal to achieve. The kid can emphatically try to reach lofty goals.Heck!if i wrote the current older jon. He would be beating up dictators and giving people his flag as a symbol to protect them. I wouldn't resort to stupid slippery slope arguments or other things. The kid could break the norms and be something the comics industry hate. A status quo breaker. I mean, the kid literally altered reality to exist.?
    Sure we saw Superboy left to his own devices, he had a book with Damian and we certainly saw Superman doing his thing outside of Jon, he's a title character, top tier but not Lois and I'm not talking about having her own book. I mean being used accordingly outside of being Jon's mother and Superman's wife. Lois was tied down by young Jon for the most part (and I love young Jon but I've loved Lois lane longer and would have appreciated seeing more of her since I was already seeing plentiful of the guys). They would break her out for a bit but her role in those books was shockingly minimal and I did not appreciate it.

    I will not get into the whole manga thing. I don't read them.
    Last edited by rpmaluki; 06-03-2020 at 10:48 AM.

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