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  1. #31
    Incredible Member Lvenger's Avatar
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    Until Bendis finishes his runs on both Superman and the Legion, I doubt Jon will be aged back down to his previous 10/11 age range. I expect it will happen at some point after Bendis leaves though, 10 year old Jon has more fans and more appeal than what Bendis has done with him. If they really wanted to give Jon a hero's journey, the writers should have taken inspiration from younger manga characters such as Gohan from Dragon Ball Z or Izuku Midoriya from My Hero Academia. Tapping into that kind of energy for a young character could have brought in even more fans given how popular these characters from their respective series are.

  2. #32
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Thing is though Gohan supplanting Goku was rejected by readers. Its why Toriyama had to go back to Goku after the Cell Saga in the first place, they demanded the star back. Despite Gohan's popularity, and he was and is a very popular character, it still didn't fly to try and complete that journey for him. After all that build-up which was very much successful build-up, they still had to back off of it in the end. It would be the same with Superman, if not more fervent a response. It wouldn't fly to complete a hero's journey for someone else because focus would be taken off of him not only in the lead-up but upon completion. Superman is the star and the appeal, you can't ever have that undermined by a supporting character. Midoriya is a different case on the other hand as that's a story that was built and designed from the ground up about a protégé taking the reigns from his mentor. So it works there, he is and was always supposed to be the main character. But you can't do those types of heroes journeys for a child of Superman in his comics. The only way that would go over would be in alternate set ups where it can take focus, or, ironically enough, in a situation like now where he's far enough removed from Superman to be able to make the journey solo. Again with the caveat that he can't then come back and supplant Superman. He'd have become something on his own, like Nightwing.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 06-07-2020 at 12:24 PM.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

  3. #33
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    Thing is though Gohan supplanting Goku was rejected by readers. Its why Toriyama had to go back to Goku after the Cell Saga in the first place, they demanded the star back. Despite Gohan's popularity, and he was and is a very popular character, it still didn't fly to try and complete that journey for him. After all that build-up which was very much successful build-up, they still had to back off of it in the end.
    None of this is actually substantiated by any evidence. To no fault of your own you're actually just going off a popular a popular western fan theory that's spread like a plague over the years (in the same camp as "my cosin told me Dragonball was supposed to end at Frieza saga"). But yeah, no popularity poll or reader rejection was ever officially cited as the reason for Gohan not being the main character.

    As far as I can tell from the impartial information I've come across, Toriyama simply didn't want to write Dragonball anymore sometime after the start of the Buu arc where Gohan was the star. So, if he was going to end his book he'd do it hitting as many high notes from his past as possible (basically a greatest hits arc). So he brought back Goku, put them in a tournament, said the final word on the rival battle, had our main villain eat people to transform, gave us a new super Sayian, and finished it with a spirit bomb.

    In all likelihood, the reason he brought Goku back at all was for the sake of bookending his story rather than anything to do with Gohan not working. Had he wanted to write more, I imagine he'd have stuck with Gohan.

    Check out this youtuber https://www.youtube.com/user/MistareFusion mistarefusion for a more comprehensive look complete with near exact transnationals, interview with the various editors, and proper context to the time of publication.
    Last edited by Superlad93; 06-07-2020 at 02:16 PM.
    "Mark my words! This drill will open a hole in the universe. And that hole will become a path for those that follow after us. The dreams of those who have fallen. The hopes of those who will follow. Those two sets of dreams weave together into a double helix, drilling a path towards tomorrow. THAT's Tengen Toppa! THAT'S Gurren Lagann! MY DRILL IS THE DRILL THAT CREATES THE HEAVENS!" - The Digger

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  4. #34
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    Thing is though Gohan supplanting Goku was rejected by readers. Its why Toriyama had to go back to Goku after the Cell Saga in the first place, they demanded the star back. Despite Gohan's popularity, and he was and is a very popular character, it still didn't fly to try and complete that journey for him. After all that build-up which was very much successful build-up, they still had to back off of it in the end. It would be the same with Superman, if not more fervent a response. It wouldn't fly to complete a hero's journey for someone else because focus would be taken off of him not only in the lead-up but upon completion. Superman is the star and the appeal, you can't ever have that undermined by a supporting character. Midoriya is a different case on the other hand as that's a story that was built and designed from the ground up about a protégé taking the reigns from his mentor. So it works there, he is and was always supposed to be the main character. But you can't do those types of heroes journeys for a child of Superman in his comics. The only way that would go over would be in alternate set ups where it can take focus, or, ironically enough, in a situation like now where he's far enough removed from Superman to be able to make the journey solo. Again with the caveat that he can't then come back and supplant Superman. He'd have become something on his own, like Nightwing.
    I mean, Damian's whole character goal in life is replacing Bruce as Batman but that's never going to happen, so I imagine that would be the same for Jon.

  5. #35
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    None of this is actually substantiated by any evidence. To no fault of your own you're actually just going off a popular a popular western fan theory that's spread like a plague over the years (in the same camp as "my cosin told me Dragonball was supposed to end at Frieza saga"). But yeah, no popularity poll or reader rejection was ever officially cited as the reason for Gohan not being the main character.

    As far as I can tell from the impartial information I've come across, Toriyama simply didn't want to write Dragonball anymore sometime after the start of the Buu arc where Gohan was the star. So, if he was going to end his book he'd do it hitting as many high notes from his past as possible (basically a greatest hits arc). So he brought back Goku, put them in a tournament, said the final word on the rival battle, had our main villain eat people to transform, gave us a new super Sayian, and finished it with a spirit bomb.

    In all likelihood, the reason he brought Goku back at all was for the sake of bookending his story rather than anything to do with Gohan not working. Had he wanted to write more, I imagine he'd have stuck with Gohan.

    Check out this youtuber https://www.youtube.com/user/MistareFusion mistarefusion for a more comprehensive look complete with near exact transnationals, interview with the various editors, and proper context to the time of publication.
    I admit the story is so ingrained in me that I can't even remember where I first was exposed to it. Certainly I wasn't exposed to Japanese readers in the 90s, heh, so if it is false, I certainly take that back. I'd always just taken it for face value because how much it was stated back when I first got into the series about 15 years back or so.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

  6. #36
    Amazing Member ARIARAIDEN's Avatar
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    A good example right now is Boruto.The manga is at this moment very good but people would hate on it because of the soley reason that he is not Naruto.If Jon would take the spotlight people would hate on it too!
    So the only way has to be a very big push a la Marvel made with Deadpool and the Avengers and DC made with Harley only then People would warm with idea of another Superman!!

  7. #37
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    My hope on what happens to Jon? Limbo. Comic book limbo.

    I mean I doubt it will happen, but it is my hope.

  8. #38
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ARIARAIDEN View Post
    A good example right now is Boruto.The manga is at this moment very good but people would hate on it because of the soley reason that he is not Naruto.If Jon would take the spotlight people would hate on it too!
    So the only way has to be a very big push a la Marvel made with Deadpool and the Avengers and DC made with Harley only then People would warm with idea of another Superman!!
    Deadpool and Harley got pushed because they were popular (as much as their haters refuse to admit).

  9. #39
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    My hope on what happens to Jon? Limbo. Comic book limbo.

    I mean I doubt it will happen, but it is my hope.
    You got a friend in me there. Its a lonely hill, but its a hill worth dying on.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

  10. #40
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Deadpool and Harley got pushed because they were popular (as much as their haters refuse to admit).
    Yep, although Birds of Prey showed Harley’s popularity has limits.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    My hope on what happens to Jon? Limbo. Comic book limbo.

    I mean I doubt it will happen, but it is my hope.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    You got a friend in me there. Its a lonely hill, but its a hill worth dying on.
    Lmao I knew you two would post this. Only way I could buy into Jon going away is if we did another full reboot and got rid of the marriage. Lois and Clark being married with no kids just doesn’t interest me. Might as well go back to young early twenties Superman again.

  11. #41
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Yep, although Birds of Prey showed Harley’s popularity has limits.
    Did it though? I mean there's a lot of factors that worked against this movie, I don't think we can view its failure as merely a result of the character not being popular enough. Give her a movie with those factors removed and it still fails, then you have a fair argument.

    Lmao I knew you two would post this. Only way I could buy into Jon going away is if we did another full reboot and got rid of the marriage. Lois and Clark being married with no kids just doesn’t interest me. Might as well go back to young early twenties Superman again.
    I'd be okay with that. I mean I have nothing against the marriage itself, and Lois will always be his one true love to me, but I have no investment in their relationship being officially and legally married. Disagree there's no interest in them married without children, plenty of real married couples never have kids, but at this point I'll take anything to not have Superdaddy be a thing.

  12. #42
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    If they were sticking with the older, married version of Superman what I'd actually suggest is erasing back just far enough then just having Lois get pregnant and actually try to do a child somewhat right. Something intended to actually build Lois and Clark's characters as parents without the ulterior motive and cheap shortcuts that Jon is entirely dependent and built upon. I'd rather have the younger version Superman, I think anyone who knows my tastes just a little bit knows that already, but barring that the former would be something they should have done not long after 1996 anyway in a post-Crisis-based continuity.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 06-07-2020 at 10:36 PM.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

  13. #43
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    If i am stuck with superman who pulls "hey! Kids" routine and with writers who don't get him writing him as lame naive paternalistic doofus or stupid savior/role model nonsense , after the kid being gone. Then hard pass. With a kid, it's tolerable. They should make billy be superman's permanent sidekick or have jimmy be kid again. I have said this before, a superdad without a kid doesn't work.Superman as a youngster can be written like that.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 06-08-2020 at 12:50 AM.

  14. #44
    Extraordinary Member DragonPiece's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    My hope on what happens to Jon? Limbo. Comic book limbo.

    I mean I doubt it will happen, but it is my hope.
    I don't want him to go to limbo. I just want him to be like Damian and go be part of the titans and not be too much of a focus in the main super books. Which is why I like Bendis's run, I read Superman for Clark, not his son.

  15. #45

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    If Jon stays a teen, you could do a superboy solo with him trying to figure out what his new normal is. He can't really return to the life he had when he left as he's much older etc. That's a decent hook and you could dwelve into what actually happened when he was away etc.

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