Why do people say Zack Snyder doesn't respect comics?

[phonogram12]

The current Jimmy Olsen comic by Fraction is pretty ridiculous. It isn't meant to be taken seriously at all. That is the kind of story I think Snyder would look at with embarrassment. Plus many of the main Superman books have had some ridiculous stories as well the past 5 years or so. It just depends on who the writer is but there always seems to be a good mix in the comics typically.

Snyder's loss then. Matt Fraction's Jimmy Olsen series is fantastic.

[Adekis]

On the Robin and Jimmy thing, I don't think he hates Robin or Jimmy, I just think Snyder didn't really have a place for them in his version of the DCU. Nolan didn't have a place for Robin either, so he just didn't include Robin for two movies before making a character with a similar structural role who's a thirty-one year old cop. I think to Snyder, it's legitimately a fun little reference to have Robin there in the background. And similarly, I think he just didn't have a place for Jimmy in his bigger mythos - but he could figure out a way to use him as a reference, by killing him off. And come on, there is space in the comics to read Jimmy Olsen as a secret agent in high-risk situations.

And alternately, I don't think Snyder meant for Jenny Jurwich to be taken as a version of Jimmy at all. It's just that in a world without the Elastic Lad serum or talking gorillas, most people can't conceive of another purpose for Jimmy beyond the cute, forgettable kid in the office. Frankly, while I don't love the Jimmy from BvS, I do kind of get it. He's more memorable than the Jimmy a lot of people seem to have expected - which is just a boy version of Jenny.

Now of course, the problem is, Jimmy absolutely belongs in a world with the Elastic Lad serum and talking gorillas, and I think there's room for that stuff in the world of Cavill's Superman - but probably not in the world of Zack Snyder's unmade 5-film epic. I think it would have been more respectful of the character for Snyder just to leave Jimmy out - but I also don't hold it against him, just like I'm not mad about Robin being dead, or for that matter, John Blake being Robin in Nolan. I just don't think the possibility of later filmmakers taking over for his world really occurred to Snyder. Though frankly, that still might not happen. sigh I just want another Cavill and Adams Superman movie so bad you guys.

[Dboi2001]

I feel people are overestimating how much control over the entire DCEU Zack had. Sure he started and has a producer role in most of the movies but for the most part i really don’t think he was essentially the Kevin Feige of the DCEU which i think most would agree is the problem with the dceu right now is that lack of a Kevin Feige. I have criticized Feige in the path but he obviously has a clear vision for the MCU and knows when to give directors enough creative control to make unique and entertaining movies while still having a sense of cohesion. Iron Man, Winter Soldier, GotG and Thor Ragnarok all are vastly different movies but still have some sense of cohesion. The DCEU just doesn’t have that. MoS and BvS and even WW compared to Aquaman or Birds of Prey just don’t have that sense of cohesion. Maybe it’s because the first three of five films were done by the same director where the MCU only had 1 director make 2 movies in phase 1 and that was of course Faveru for Iron Man 2 but simply put we all the DCEU hasn’t been the most thought and after mixed reviews for MoS and negative for BvS WB scrambles to restart it with re editing Suicide Squad to make it more like GotG and of course the debacle with Justice League

Also I feel that Snyder did intentionally leave things vague enough for later directors. We aren’t told which robin was killed whereas if Snyder really didn’t want any of the robins i feel he would’ve included Bruce visiting Dick’s tombstone. And Jimmy Olsen was a CIA agent so there is a chance that he was using the credentials of the real Jimmy Olsen. If not they could just introduce a new Jimmy Olsen as his cousin or brother like in Smallville

[Agent Z]

To the OP, as someone who has had this conversation too many times to count, you're better off just not asking at all. People will stick to their opinions and nothing will change that. If comic book fans are good at one thing, it's making anyone who doesn't agree with their take a villain in their eyes.

I rest my case.

[manwhohaseverything]

On the Robin and Jimmy thing, I don't think he hates Robin or Jimmy, I just think Snyder didn't really have a place for them in his version of the DCU. Nolan didn't have a place for Robin either, so he just didn't include Robin for two movies before making a character with a similar structural role who's a thirty-one year old cop. I think to Snyder, it's legitimately a fun little reference to have Robin there in the background. And similarly, I think he just didn't have a place for Jimmy in his bigger mythos - but he could figure out a way to use him as a reference, by killing him off. And come on, there is space in the comics to read Jimmy Olsen as a secret agent in high-risk situations.

And alternately, I don't think Snyder meant for Jenny Jurwich to be taken as a version of Jimmy at all. It's just that in a world without the Elastic Lad serum or talking gorillas, most people can't conceive of another purpose for Jimmy beyond the cute, forgettable kid in the office. Frankly, while I don't love the Jimmy from BvS, I do kind of get it. He's more memorable than the Jimmy a lot of people seem to have expected - which is just a boy version of Jenny.

Now of course, the problem is, Jimmy absolutely belongs in a world with the Elastic Lad serum and talking gorillas, and I think there's room for that stuff in the world of Cavill's Superman - but probably not in the world of Zack Snyder's unmade 5-film epic. I think it would have been more respectful of the character for Snyder just to leave Jimmy out - but I also don't hold it against him, just like I'm not mad about Robin being dead, or for that matter, John Blake being Robin in Nolan. I just don't think the possibility of later filmmakers taking over for his world really occurred to Snyder. Though frankly, that still might not happen. sigh I just want another Cavill and Adams Superman movie so bad you guys.

This. I agree with this. You can't expect people to just cater to your tastes. I love me some jimmy as mr. Action. But, these stories weren't trying for that. And postcrisis did the same for several years. Jimmy struggled as a character for years as well. Granted, i think snyder should have had jimmy continue the cia agent gig. It could have worked rather than killing him off.

[Mider2009]

I enjoyed Snyder’s run on Batman, found it to be fantastic. I was very happy with the new depictions of the villains. I enjoyed how Batman often found himself in Danger Rather then just kick the crap out of the villain.

Snyder also added to the Batman mythos and Gotham with The Court of Owls.

I thought his take on Swamp thing was cool but I enjoyed Soules more.

Haven’t read All Star Batman, I’ll be reading Snyder’s version of the JL soon though and I enjoyed Dark Knight's Metal a lot.

[Agent Z]

I enjoyed Snyder’s run on Batman, found it to be fantastic. I was very happy with the new depictions of the villains. I enjoyed how Batman often found himself in Danger Rather then just kick the crap out of the villain.

Snyder also added to the Batman mythos and Gotham with The Court of Owls.

I thought his take on Swamp thing was cool but I enjoyed Soules more.

Haven’t read All Star Batman, I’ll be reading Snyder’s version of the JL soon though and I enjoyed Dark Knight's Metal a lot.

Um, the thread is about Zack Snyder not Scott Snyder.

[Mider2009]

Um, the thread is about Zack Snyder not Scott Snyder.

Yes I just noticed that

[The Darknight Detective]

Yes I just noticed that

Hey, at least you didn't post anything about Snyder from One Day at a Time.

[The Darknight Detective]

As for Snyder, he clearly respects comics more than your average film maker, but what he likes may not necessarily be the most popular version of a particular character or story in regard to the mainstream audience. Now if you want somebody who clearly did not respect comics, it's someone like William Dozier.

[Jack The Tripper]

I just haven't seen any clear indication that Snyder likes any character apart from Batman, much like how Garth Ennis only seems to like Punisher. Obviously, Snyder doesn't go out of his way to lampoon other characters like Ennis does, but I do think he tends to turn brighter characters darker in order to fit what his idea of cool or interesting is. For me, it just doesn't sit well (Granted, we haven't yet seen his full takes on Flash, Cyborg, and Aquaman), but I think his Superman is a clear indicator for me. I know he has very passionate fans, and that's great, but for me he doesn't seem to understand what sets characters apart and usually looks at one type of comic story - the Frank Miller type. Which again, I respect, but I personally just wish it wasn't him who had the keys to the kick off the DCEU.

In regards to the MCU depictions of characters; I don't think they mock anyone - I think the company finds the fun and ridiculousness of its characters and uses it to entertain. I think they've found a seamless way to make these characters accessible to the general public, and that's cool! In my opinion, it's just light fun at a fictional character's expense. I think Shazam had that, and for me it was one of the more enjoyable DCEU films. At the end of the day, they're stories about people running around in tights, they shouldn't be taken super dark and serious unless the character themselves calls for it (Batman, Daredevil, Moon Knight etc). I know a lot of you probably think I sound like an MCU shill here, but I do love dark CBM's too. I just think that Snyder's films sacrificed a lot of dynamic in terms of visuals and storytelling, particularly in regards to Superman.

[Dboi2001]

What makes you think Snyder doesn’t like other characters besides Batman and why Batman specifically? Especially when Superman is basically the main focus for the ‘Snyder Trilogy’ if you will

Again I feel people are overestimating Snyder’s influence in the Dceu. I really doubt he had that much more influence than say Jon Faveru had for the MCU. I will say that not having a Feige really hurt the DCEU

I know Marvel Studios doesn’t hate marvel characters but there are times that they come off as way too cheeky about the silliness of characters. As I’ve said there is no reason why Scott Lang should think Ant Man is a goofy name and power when he idolizes Captain America or why Korath doesn’t at least recognize the name from Yondu’s gang and I mean Thor Ragnarok just takes every shot at the first two Thor movies. Honestly though Thor acts way more different in Ragnarok than even Infinity War than Aquaman from JL to Aquaman despite some people saying Aquaman was trying to soft reboot JL (despite blatantly referencing it). Like Ant Man mentions over and over how silly the name ant man is or how everyone mocks StarLord for being a nobody. I just can’t see that happening with a character like Batman or Superman. Imagine the Reeves Batman movie and when Battinson goes “I’m Batman” to Gordon he responds “What kind of dumb name is that?”

[Jack The Tripper]

What makes you think Snyder doesn’t like other characters besides Batman and why Batman specifically? Especially when Superman is basically the main focus for the ‘Snyder Trilogy’ if you will

Again I feel people are overestimating Snyder’s influence in the Dceu. I really doubt he had that much more influence than say Jon Faveru had for the MCU. I will say that not having a Feige really hurt the DCEU

I know Marvel Studios doesn’t hate marvel characters but there are times that they come off as way too cheeky about the silliness of characters. As I’ve said there is no reason why Scott Lang should think Ant Man is a goofy name and power when he idolizes Captain America or why Korath doesn’t at least recognize the name from Yondu’s gang and I mean Thor Ragnarok just takes every shot at the first two Thor movies. Honestly though Thor acts way more different in Ragnarok than even Infinity War than Aquaman from JL to Aquaman despite some people saying Aquaman was trying to soft reboot JL (despite blatantly referencing it). Like Ant Man mentions over and over how silly the name ant man is or how everyone mocks StarLord for being a nobody. I just can’t see that happening with a character like Batman or Superman. Imagine the Reeves Batman movie and when Battinson goes “I’m Batman” to Gordon he responds “What kind of dumb name is that?”

I think Snyder THINKS he has a grasp on characters like Superman, or perhaps thought he had to change them to what he thinks is cool in order to make them popular. The only reason Superman is the main part of the trilogy is because his movie came first, then the rest of it was rushed, so obviously he kinda has to be at the center of it. but even in BvS I think it's evident that Superman scenes were pushed to the side in order for Batman to have more screen time, which I think was a Snyder decision because he loved Miller's Dark Knight. I could be wrong but that's the way i see it. I think it's so weird and off putting for it to take a whole trilogy to get Superman to be the bastion of hope that he's known as in the comics and the general public. Just a strange choice imo.

I agree he wasn't a Feige style creative force, but I do think most of the decisions were his, with Justice League being the only heavily interfered with movie. BvS is the most Zack Snyder movie he's done for DC and it ended up being what damaged his relationship with the studio because of its poor reception. I think he had most control over the first 2 dceu films, which ended up setting the course of the franchise, and tarnishing it from the get go. I do admit, that he was probably told they wanted a more realistic take on Superman for Man of Steel, but I think it would have been his intention anyway.

But it's realistic no? If someone came up to me and told me to call myself Ant Man, I'd think they're joking too! Captain America is jingoistic propaganda, you could just link it to someone's patriotism and pride in defeating the Nazis - you can't do that with Ant Man. I'm pretty sure it's been mocked in the comics too. If you're talking about Star Lord I imagine that's only a name he took up after leaving The Ravagers, as Yondu just calls him Quill. Thor Ragnarok was clearly a soft reboot though, at least in terms of character, because Thor wasn't doing as well as Captain America or Iron Man in the numbers. Thor is one of my favourite comic characters and I personally love what they did; the first 2 movies do not stand up well, so they went in a different direction, which may be jarring, but it's not a mockery, Ragnarok through to Endgame has made Thor one of the most interesting MCU characters, and Love and Thunder is my most anticipated upcoming MCU movie. And to be fair, Thor's change in character has been said to be because of him spending more time with Humans/Avengers where he became a bit less god like (I like that idea a lot, it's a pity they couldn't explain it in the movies to make it canon). Star Lord kind of ... is ... a nobody. It's a pretty smart way to introduce the GOTG because nobody knew who they were before the film. It's smart, and it really works in context of the films - I don't think it's a mockery. And yeah, I can actually see something like that in The Batman, but if I'm honest, I don't think he'll even call himself Batman lol. He might be referred to it by someone else, or possibly just The Bat or something. It looks like they're going for a very realistic movie. All I want to see is a good rendition of Mr Freeze or Clayface and I want it to be balls to the wall. I think I'm gonna have to wait a few years

[Agent Z]

Most of what Snyder did with Superman already has precedence in the comics and even some adaptations like Smallville. He wasn't changing the character, he was just going with a take that some people may not have preferred.

And if you think Snyder hates the "silliness" of comic books, he actually argued to have Superman wear the trunks but was overruled.

[Jack The Tripper]

Most of what Snyder did with Superman already has precedence in the comics and even some adaptations like Smallville. He wasn't changing the character, he was just going with a take that some people may not have preferred.

And if you think Snyder hates the "silliness" of comic books, he actually argued to have Superman wear the trunks but was overruled.

I'm not saying that anything he did wasn't precedented, I'm just saying that he went with a take on the character that doesn't really suit the fundamentals of the character - his take on Superman would have perhaps worked better if the MoS/BvS/JL character arc came later on in the DCEU. I think Superman should have been introduced as the Superman we all know and love in order to get better footing for this universe and his arc. Introducing him as this "grim 'n' gritty" version and having him stay that way until the end of a third movie doesn't really service anyone, and if I'm honest I think (apart from the die hard fans) people kind of forgot about MoS until BvS came out, because that Superman was bland. To have him be this weird loner type character for 3 movies just feels strange and not like the Superman people recognise and in my opinion makes his character more like Batman - a character that Snyder clearly feels more comfortable writing.

I never said he hates the silliness, I just think he prefers darker stories - stories which maybe don't fit certain characters as well as others - especially for those characters' introductions. I don't know him, so maybe he actually loves the lighter stuff. And of course he fought for the trunks... Superman wears them in Dark Knight Returns...