Why do people say Zack Snyder doesn't respect comics?

[Dboi2001]

Yeah and that arc should’ve been about being King and certainly not end with Thor just up up and away-ing with the guardians. It should’ve ended with Thor being the mentor to Valk and continue their relationship in Thor 4 and maybe there we get unworthy Thor. But what has Valk done to earn it and I know you say she took care about Asgard but we didn’t see that so what gives?

Again Iron Man’s near death in Avengers was a catalyst not the main point. The movie doesn’t focus on it that much. And yes team up movies do have individual arcs and Thor has a fantastic one in IW but it didn’t pay off in Endgame. The Russos were clearly trying to be funny by having Thor be fat and yelling at Fortnite kiddies (mind you the film is set in what 2023 is Fortnite really going to be as popular by then) regardless of if he was grieving. The scene is played for laughs and Thor acts completes over the top. He is a completely different character between Endgame and Infinity War

That’s exactly why I wasn’t big on Jane becoming Thor because she hadn’t done much and wasn’t that interesting. And I don’t hate FemThor but the fact is it wasn’t handled well early on same with Odinson

[Dboi2001]

Why not just have Hela capture the warriors 3 and have them go out in glory at the end? If you criticize Jimmy Olsen then you have to criticize this

First off there is a hell of a lot more differences between Superman and Dr Manhattan but that’s something else. Superman never had to juggle with his personal life (I don’t even remember Green Lantern juggling his personal life especially now since he’s the new head of the Lantern Corps). He constantly takes off to save the day and never gets fired. And Superman still has his ‘humanity’ as Superman. He simply took the job at the Daily Planet so he could investigate crime and we that in BvS even when Perry tells him not to bother investigating Batman.

Superman did change by the end of MoS finally getting closure of who is really was. You’re missing the context. Superman is unsure about being a hero in MoS because he doesn’t want to hurt his own kind. In BvS he is unsure if he really even is a hero and really is helping people. And no Jonathan Kent doesn’t tell Clark he should’ve let kids drown in the bus he simply said maybe as in he doesn’t really know. If you watched the scene John’s tone isn’t a causal “yeah sure maybe” but an unsure one. John’s issue isn’t Clark saving people but being reckless and almost exposing himself. He could’ve lead everyone to the emergency door and gotten everyone to safety instead of pushing the entire bus out. John is simply looking out for his son especially since we see Pete’s mother freaking out. I mean the movie literally opens with Clark saving workers from an oil rig without hesitation so his arc isn’t about whether he should be a hero or not.

Superman thinks he isn’t saving people because of how the world reacts to him. How they either fear him or think he is a God. Along with that he literally had to come face to face with the guy who lost his legs because of him who of course exploded as was part of Luthor’s plan. He saved Earth but thousands of people either died or were injured. It’s like with the story John tells him later on the mountain. Why doesn’t he stop trafficking? First off it’s obvious he respects the police and thinks they should handle it which is why when he is in Gotham he is surprised by the cartoon strip showing the cops crying for Batman. Plus it also foils to Batman’s worldview. Superman believes he can stop injustice and crisis while Batman believes his efforts are in vain since crime always replenishes

I also disagree with your analysis on Superman. By the end of MoS we see a more classic Superman specifically when he crashes the drone and when he takes the job at the daily planet. I will admit Superman doesn’t change all that much himself in terms of ideals. He was always hopeful and saw the good in people giving the kryptonians a chance to surrender and join humanity

[manwhohaseverything]

Kinda yeah he is given some sympathy. He becomes a dictator to ensure no supervillains like Joker ever exist again. Even then it’s an elseworld story so don’t get your panties in a knot. Apparently you think after Metropolis being destroyed and his wife being murdered by his own hands he should just brush it off?

I hate to break it to you but DC has made Harley into an anti hero more in recent years because just as Dini and Timm envisioned Harley was simply manipulated by Joker

Oh! Please, how many "elseworlds" are there with other characters going evil compared to superman ? How many times has batman shown to be incompetent in favour of other hereos compared to superman?As if that's what the character comes across as. Yeah!right,burning down billy batson with no remorse is him trying to stop "jokers" from existing.As if the glorified clown will have that much of an effect on superman. Superman has killed people. He isn't batman. He wouldn't go through the deep end cause of that. If joker does decide to do something and superman has to kill him to protect people or the world. He would.This idea that he would go totalitarian with only slippery slope nonsense as the argument is just nothing but dogma plaguing industry That's comics. The game is specifically for batman fanboys to have their power fantasy by beating up superman.It provides nothing for viewers to feel injusticeman is a tragic soul, like mister freeze or something. At best, it shoves superman into a one dimensional version of "two face" role. Which is laughable. As if superman is some white knight with an ugly hidden face. The guy was concieved as the bully who bullys back the corrupt to protect the weak. He is simple and an open book. Anyways, we weren't talking about my panties being in a knot. Were we? We were talking about if and whether these stories with evil Superman are appealing or something superman fans have begrudgingly come to tolerate. The answer is quite obvious. We tolerate the cliche.

Who the hell cares, she was a willing accomplice in everything joker did.She is a physiatrist. This idea that she so innocent(i would call her pathetic and gullable) that she became joker's sidekick is laughable.what is she? A 10 year old. As if, the clown is that brilliant.What an overrated character. The best part about joker is that he is so laughably pathetic and predictable.
"awee!life makes no sense and morality is a myth. So let's kill and cause chaos for giggles. Cause, Deep down everybody is as crazy and evil as me. So i am justified."
She should be executed along with the clown for blowing up Metropolis. She in that story and in general if not given a death sentence, should be given a life sentence. She is as said a mass murdering genocidal manic.That's just for some sense of redemption.

[Dboi2001]

A couple of things o missed

First off you say Spider-Man dealing with his dual life is important. What do you think about the mcu spider man and how they revealed his identity before he even graduated high school let alone worked at the Bugle (which is not an internet news cite instead of a newspaper), interned for Connors/Octavius, reunited with Harry or even fought the sinister six yet? Honestly they’ll probably brush Aunt May off as a joke since that is all she is now

Next your point about Superman is baffling wrong. You’re saying at the end of MoS with him chatting to the general about spying on him or even his conversation with Lois after being detained wasn’t classic Superman? He does more than just “move around the whole movie”. From the start he was al about hope even the moment he was born and he wanted to make peace with the kryptonians. Even after all that he gave Zod a chance to give up. If that isn’t Superman for you idk what is

What happened in BvS is exactly what you described. Luthor hates Superman because he believes no one can be all good and all powerful and Batman being incredibly paranoid that he may turn evil as well as feeling like this will be his legacy. Superman is clearly a symbol of hope in BvS like when he was in Mexico and everyone was surrounding him. In BvS he doesn’t become hesitant about saving people until after Wally (the guy in the wheelchair) blew himself up. He felt that while he did save Metropolis and the World he simply didn’t do enough and for all the good he does like what Batman said crime is like weeds. Clark remembering his father’s story about the horses mirrored his struggled. But his issue isn’t if humanity is worth saving but if he really is saving people. I really recommend at least watching some clips on YouTube before you critique it

[Steel Inquisitor]

A couple of things o missed

First off you say Spider-Man dealing with his dual life is important. What do you think about the mcu spider man and how they revealed his identity before he even graduated high school let alone worked at the Bugle (which is not an internet news cite instead of a newspaper), interned for Connors/Octavius, reunited with Harry or even fought the sinister six yet? Honestly they’ll probably brush Aunt May off as a joke since that is all she is now

They could still do those things and you're referencing Ultimate Spider-man. Spider-man he can do that in college, in the Sony films he spent his origins in high school than moved onto college. He's stayed in his school longer in the MCU! They may not go the Bugle route but who cares? Do something else, maybe Parker Industries. The MCU's been building up the Sinister Six since Homecoming.

Aunt May shouldn't be a major character, anyway and the MCU did inject life into her to make her more relevant than the classic version we saw in Riami's films. In the comics she served her purpose, inspiring Peter with her memory. They've exhausted the stories about her life at that stage.

Next your point about Superman is baffling wrong. You’re saying at the end of MoS with him chatting to the general about spying on him or even his conversation with Lois after being detained wasn’t classic Superman? He does more than just “move around the whole movie”. From the start he was al about hope even the moment he was born and he wanted to make peace with the kryptonians. Even after all that he gave Zod a chance to give up. If that isn’t Superman for you idk what is

It got so close until he blew the satellite out of the sky, that's what I'd expect Batman to do not Superman. The conversation with Lois when he's captured was great, too bad the movie wasn't entirely like that. And the movies don't know what to do with Lois. That was Joe-El's optomism, which didn't reflect much in this Kal-El when he grew up. He wasn't all that eager to reunite with the Kryptonians, it's not like he hesitated to blow ten out of the sky. "They had their chance." And the film didn't give him either on the Zod side or his skills with making them come over, no Kryptons turned against Zod and that wasn't a priority for Superman. He was too outmatched by Zod and co. at every level, he spent his life wandering around he didn't go to college or study any important subjects which would have helped him in those situations. Except Snyder never gave him many options in peacefully resolving the conflict or containing them, all he as left with was killing them all.

What happened in BvS is exactly what you described. Luthor hates Superman because he believes no one can be all good and all powerful and Batman being incredibly paranoid that he may turn evil as well as feeling like this will be his legacy. Superman is clearly a symbol of hope in BvS like when he was in Mexico and everyone was surrounding him. In BvS he doesn’t become hesitant about saving people until after Wally (the guy in the wheelchair) blew himself up. He felt that while he did save Metropolis and the World he simply didn’t do enough and for all the good he does like what Batman said crime is like weeds. Clark remembering his father’s story about the horses mirrored his struggled. But his issue isn’t if humanity is worth saving but if he really is saving people. I really recommend at least watching some clips on YouTube before you critique it

Luthor's a basket case who sounded more like the Joker than a Luthor, Luthor hates him because he was unable to save him from being abused by his father despite the fact Superman only just turned up the last few years? I think Snyder was implying he was driving mad by Darkseid, yet he really didn't have to to get Lex to to do this. Lex's actions would have fit Joker more, so why not make him Joker? Superman was controversial, and how the "hope" was depicted was creepy rather than inspiring. And they didn't bother exploring humanity's reaction to Superman, Snyder went to all this trouble to make this montage and Holly Hunter and all we got was "He is," and the movie moved on. We don't see Superman himself interact with the media or what he truly thinks about how people react to him. What does he think of the people doing that in Mexico? All we get is some concerned pouting and not a word was said to anyone, nobody commented on it. Why have a scene like that if it's not moving the story forward or adding character growth? This Superman didn't raise a pulse after being near Lex's goons that fought Batman, which he didn't follow up on. All he was interested in was intimidating Batman into retiring as if he was Judge Dredd, not Superman.

What he really thinks is hard to fully grasp since he's mute for too much of the film and we just have people react to him like he's an object rather than a person. This is explored more in the director's cut but its only 30 minutes and that is not canon in the DCEU, the theatrical cut is.

There was a story there for Superman to examine how he feels about saving people but I'm going to need more less metaphors which come from LSD trips and more talking to actual people. That's what Lois and Martha and Batman are there for. He'd have Jimmy but Snyder put a bullet in his head for "fun."

The wheelchair scene wasn't needed, and Superman shouldn't have been caught so off guard by that. He's a veteran at that stage and it's like he lost his x-ray vision by B v S. Just have the court scene play out, that I was interested in watching. Instead they all died and Superman looks like an idiot just standing there.

[Dboi2001]

How exactly can Peter do those things when the world knows he is spider man? And yes May should be important to Peter considering she’s his only living family left. Marisa Tomai as May has been awful. I get not bothering with Uncle Ben but did this woman really get over her husband’s death that quick? Yeah sure Peter she’s still broken up which is why she act flirty with all her suitors and bangs Happy Hogan. Don’t even bring up Raimi aunt May in the same sentence as MCU Spider Man

What satellite you mean the drone? I disagree. And yes Kal El did have much of the optimism as Jor. Superman didn’t want to fight the kryptonians because they were like him and because he too believed they could live on earth. Later on he even has a conversation with Zod about not having to destroy earth but Zod tells him future kryptonians will feel pain in adapting and be scrutinized. He sent them to the phantom zone because it was the last resort to the massive amounts of destruction. But even after all that he gave Zod a chance to surrender but Zod refused. And of course he wasn’t all that eager considering they sent an ominous message threatening the earth

Luthor was nothing like Joker. The absolute closest possible parallel is the killing joke but even that is radically different. Joker wanted to prove anyone could end up like him with just one bad day and he focused more on fucking with Gordon. Luthor believed Superman was a god and since God didn’t save him from his father’s abuse he believes either Superman isn’t all powerful or he is not all good. He never blamed Superman for his father’s abuse but he believes he is a god and is taking his anger out on him. Did you seriously say the montage did not move the story forward? First off you don’t need words to convey a message and second it shows how the world viewed him. All we get throughout the movie is how Superman reacts to these things

Dude the capital bombing was the straw that broke Batman AND Superman. Superman saw what his recklessness caused and made him rethink his actions and Wally was Bruce’s ex employee and Luthor also forged papers of threats and sent them to Bruce. And you are right Superman should’ve seen that which is why he was so upset with himself that he let his guard down and allowed that to happen (if you really care that much just say it was lead lined) and why he took off. Also I doubt Superman’s x ray vision is always on

[Alan2099]

I've never really saw why people thought Luthor felt more like Joker in that movie.

To me, he felt like a much less intimidating, less serious version of Jim Carrey's Riddler.

[KCJ506]

For once I would like a live action Lex Luthor that's portrayed more like he was in Superman TAS.

[The Darknight Detective]

For once I would like a live action Lex Luthor that's portrayed more like he was in Superman TAS.

Based on his CB presence at the time a particular Superman film was out, the closest to Luthor was Lyle Talbot and the least was Gene Hackman.

[Will Evans]

Yeah and that arc should’ve been about being King and certainly not end with Thor just up up and away-ing with the guardians. It should’ve ended with Thor being the mentor to Valk and continue their relationship in Thor 4 and maybe there we get unworthy Thor. But what has Valk done to earn it and I know you say she took care about Asgard but we didn’t see that so what gives?

Ragnarok was never about Thor learning to be a good king. It was about him being a protector of his people but never as a king. That’s why he had to come to the realization that Asgard is a people not a place.

As we saw when Rocket and Hulk went to visit Thor, the surviving Asgardians settled at Tonsberg and we’re being led by Valkyrie as their leader in all but name, while Thor was on a depression bender.

At the end, Thor showed character growth in that he realized that now what his people needed was Valkyrie, who was already leading them , in all but name on Earth while he was sulking. That already makes Thor better than Odin, because Odin would never walk away from the crown even if circumstances dictated he wasn’t the best person for the job. After Frigga’s death, Odin was angry , vengeful and the last person that should have been leading Asgard with his state of mind. Dark World showed that.
Now look at Thor after he failed to simply give Thanos the kill shot rather than waste time goading him for spite. He was a depressed mess.

And if you didn’t see Thor’s apotheosis from his talk with his mother and then having past Mjonir show him he was still worthy, I’m not sure what to tell you. His talk with his mother foreshadowed what Thor would do at the end of the film.

Also, as obviously noted, Endgame wasn’t the end of Thor’s story like it was for Steve, Tony and Natasha.


Back on topic. I think Snyder is a big fan on those 80s post-modernism works like Dark Knight Returns, Watchman, 300, etc. But not on anything on other comics. Especially ones dealing with New Sincerity.

[H-E-D]

Back on topic. I think Snyder is a big fan on those 80s post-modernism works like Dark Knight Returns, Watchman, 300, etc. But not on anything on other comics. Especially ones dealing with New Sincerity.

This is clearly true; equally true is that he's clearly a part of the group that loved those comics but didn't understand their themes. He's the type that took from Watchmen the idea that all comics should be ultraviolent and gritty because it was super cool.

https://comicsalliance.com/alan-moor...ki-anno-genre/

[manwhohaseverything]

This is clearly true; equally true is that he's clearly a part of the group that loved those comics but didn't understand their themes. He's the type that took from Watchmen the idea that all comics should be ultraviolent and gritty because it was super cool.

https://comicsalliance.com/alan-moor...ki-anno-genre/

Did snyder glorify the violence in mos and bvs or was he just blunt/honest about it? I mean, nothing in the movies made me "Coool! 'heroes' wrecking cities and vigilante's breaking people"

[phonogram12]

This is clearly true; equally true is that he's clearly a part of the group that loved those comics but didn't understand their themes. He's the type that took from Watchmen the idea that all comics should be ultraviolent and gritty because it was super cool.

https://comicsalliance.com/alan-moor...ki-anno-genre/

I have to agree. He also seems to get a lot of credit for recreating panels, but that seems to be his entire understanding of these characters.

[Dboi2001]

This is clearly true; equally true is that he's clearly a part of the group that loved those comics but didn't understand their themes. He's the type that took from Watchmen the idea that all comics should be ultraviolent and gritty because it was super cool.

https://comicsalliance.com/alan-moor...ki-anno-genre/

I doubt YOU even understood watchmen

[Dboi2001]

Ragnarok was never about Thor learning to be a good king. It was about him being a protector of his people but never as a king. That’s why he had to come to the realization that Asgard is a people not a place.

As we saw when Rocket and Hulk went to visit Thor, the surviving Asgardians settled at Tonsberg and we’re being led by Valkyrie as their leader in all but name, while Thor was on a depression bender.

At the end, Thor showed character growth in that he realized that now what his people needed was Valkyrie, who was already leading them , in all but name on Earth while he was sulking. That already makes Thor better than Odin, because Odin would never walk away from the crown even if circumstances dictated he wasn’t the best person for the job. After Frigga’s death, Odin was angry , vengeful and the last person that should have been leading Asgard with his state of mind. Dark World showed that.
Now look at Thor after he failed to simply give Thanos the kill shot rather than waste time goading him for spite. He was a depressed mess.

And if you didn’t see Thor’s apotheosis from his talk with his mother and then having past Mjonir show him he was still worthy, I’m not sure what to tell you. His talk with his mother foreshadowed what Thor would do at the end of the film.

Also, as obviously noted, Endgame wasn’t the end of Thor’s story like it was for Steve, Tony and Natasha.


Back on topic. I think Snyder is a big fan on those 80s post-modernism works like Dark Knight Returns, Watchman, 300, etc. But not on anything on other comics. Especially ones dealing with New Sincerity.

Yes it was. Why do you think he lost his eye? How the hell will he be the protector of Asgard when he’s hanging with the guardians? The king is the protector. If Thor felt he wasn’t worthy why didn’t he give up the crown earlier? Why didn’t he give up his birthright after failing to stop Thanos?

Admit your bullshit. If Snyder made Superman a fat drunk playing Fortnite you’d say he hates Superman but when Marvel does it they love the characters. Even if endgame isn’t Thor’s end which is stupid as **** he can still be a vital character for Valkyrie and mentoring her. And what exactly did Valkyrie do as the de facto leader of Asgard? Because it looked like she did jack ****